any computer or stuffi can add on my Runx to make its lift start eailer....
becox i always think if it was lift from 4000 rpm it may be equal to a turbo car..........
Full Version: How to make the Lift ealier??????????????
Due to the aggressiveness of the high cam (lift) it will make less power at 4000rpm than the low cam will. Unless you have a supercharger, then you might be able to set lift down around 4500rpm, but NA it is way too early. Depending on the engine and mods then the change over point can be set to 5500-6000rpm. There has been plenty of discussions on this forum about ECU's that can control lift, do a search and plenty will come up.
If you look at a dyno graph you can see that the low cam only starts to lose power at around 6000rpm.
If you look at a dyno graph you can see that the low cam only starts to lose power at around 6000rpm.
Not entirely true SD.
The Low cam only starts to lose power on a stock ecu because the Stock ECU pulls all the timing from it as it approaches the change over point.... its Toyotas sales pitch for vvtL-i, that sudden lurch you feel as lift hits... it totally pointless for performance. a linear power curve is obviously the optimum.
when we were tuning the Vmanage, we found that we were making more and More power from the low cam, and started shifting the lift point upwards... we finished the session with change over at 7200 rpm. the next session we started making power from the high cam.. and then the lift point started to come back southward to where it is now at 6050 rpm.
But to the OP. Spend your time doing alot of research before you make your mind up about buying engine management, and by that i mean... speak to some tuners who have experience with toyota ECU's or who understand their product intimately.
Good Luck with it.
The Low cam only starts to lose power on a stock ecu because the Stock ECU pulls all the timing from it as it approaches the change over point.... its Toyotas sales pitch for vvtL-i, that sudden lurch you feel as lift hits... it totally pointless for performance. a linear power curve is obviously the optimum.
when we were tuning the Vmanage, we found that we were making more and More power from the low cam, and started shifting the lift point upwards... we finished the session with change over at 7200 rpm. the next session we started making power from the high cam.. and then the lift point started to come back southward to where it is now at 6050 rpm.
But to the OP. Spend your time doing alot of research before you make your mind up about buying engine management, and by that i mean... speak to some tuners who have experience with toyota ECU's or who understand their product intimately.
Good Luck with it.
Or you could just learn to drive the car for what it is. I'm so sick of Lift Fanbois. There's also issues with oil pressure having the hi-cam point set that low I'm sure.
That was directed towards the OP btw BKS, not you obviously.
That was directed towards the OP btw BKS, not you obviously.
QUOTE (Blind Kid Seeks @ Jan 4 2009, 10:13 AM) 
Not entirely true SD.
The Low cam only starts to lose power on a stock ecu because the Stock ECU pulls all the timing from it as it approaches the change over point.... its Toyotas sales pitch for vvtL-i, that sudden lurch you feel as lift hits... it totally pointless for performance. a linear power curve is obviously the optimum.
when we were tuning the Vmanage, we found that we were making more and More power from the low cam, and started shifting the lift point upwards... we finished the session with change over at 7200 rpm. the next session we started making power from the high cam.. and then the lift point started to come back southward to where it is now at 6050 rpm.
But to the OP. Spend your time doing alot of research before you make your mind up about buying engine management, and by that i mean... speak to some tuners who have experience with toyota ECU's or who understand their product intimately.
Good Luck with it.
The Low cam only starts to lose power on a stock ecu because the Stock ECU pulls all the timing from it as it approaches the change over point.... its Toyotas sales pitch for vvtL-i, that sudden lurch you feel as lift hits... it totally pointless for performance. a linear power curve is obviously the optimum.
when we were tuning the Vmanage, we found that we were making more and More power from the low cam, and started shifting the lift point upwards... we finished the session with change over at 7200 rpm. the next session we started making power from the high cam.. and then the lift point started to come back southward to where it is now at 6050 rpm.
But to the OP. Spend your time doing alot of research before you make your mind up about buying engine management, and by that i mean... speak to some tuners who have experience with toyota ECU's or who understand their product intimately.
Good Luck with it.
Unless ofcourse ur pushing enough air through the engine that ur able to allow the hi-cam to be used to its full potential at lower rpms ....... nothing like 21psi of boost to help with this
4400 rpm eh habib 
QUOTE (Guni @ Jan 4 2009, 10:35 AM)
4400 rpm eh habib
does habib ever get sick of telling us he is running 21psi.......
sorry if this has been covered in a search but couldnt a simple VTEC controller help in this situation or are Toyota ECU's a harder unit to crack?
QUOTE (Blind Kid Seeks @ Jan 4 2009, 09:13 AM)
Not entirely true SD.
The Low cam only starts to lose power on a stock ecu because the Stock ECU pulls all the timing from it as it approaches the change over point.... its Toyotas sales pitch for vvtL-i, that sudden lurch you feel as lift hits... it totally pointless for performance. a linear power curve is obviously the optimum.
when we were tuning the Vmanage, we found that we were making more and More power from the low cam, and started shifting the lift point upwards... we finished the session with change over at 7200 rpm. the next session we started making power from the high cam.. and then the lift point started to come back southward to where it is now at 6050 rpm.
But to the OP. Spend your time doing alot of research before you make your mind up about buying engine management, and by that i mean... speak to some tuners who have experience with toyota ECU's or who understand their product intimately.
Good Luck with it.
The Low cam only starts to lose power on a stock ecu because the Stock ECU pulls all the timing from it as it approaches the change over point.... its Toyotas sales pitch for vvtL-i, that sudden lurch you feel as lift hits... it totally pointless for performance. a linear power curve is obviously the optimum.
when we were tuning the Vmanage, we found that we were making more and More power from the low cam, and started shifting the lift point upwards... we finished the session with change over at 7200 rpm. the next session we started making power from the high cam.. and then the lift point started to come back southward to where it is now at 6050 rpm.
But to the OP. Spend your time doing alot of research before you make your mind up about buying engine management, and by that i mean... speak to some tuners who have experience with toyota ECU's or who understand their product intimately.
Good Luck with it.
That may be the case with Piggyback Setups. With stand lone ECU's you are not restricted by having to use the stock ECU so changing the lift point has real advantages, NA your looking aroudn the 5750rpm mark.
QUOTE (daviboy @ Jan 4 2009, 09:14 PM)
sorry if this has been covered in a search but couldnt a simple VTEC controller help in this situation or are Toyota ECU's a harder unit to crack?
Not that easy, VTEC stuff just dosent work with VVTI/L
QUOTE (Northy @ Jan 4 2009, 10:27 PM)
QUOTE (Blind Kid Seeks @ Jan 4 2009, 09:13 AM)
Not entirely true SD.
The Low cam only starts to lose power on a stock ecu because the Stock ECU pulls all the timing from it as it approaches the change over point.... its Toyotas sales pitch for vvtL-i, that sudden lurch you feel as lift hits... it totally pointless for performance. a linear power curve is obviously the optimum.
when we were tuning the Vmanage, we found that we were making more and More power from the low cam, and started shifting the lift point upwards... we finished the session with change over at 7200 rpm. the next session we started making power from the high cam.. and then the lift point started to come back southward to where it is now at 6050 rpm.
But to the OP. Spend your time doing alot of research before you make your mind up about buying engine management, and by that i mean... speak to some tuners who have experience with toyota ECU's or who understand their product intimately.
Good Luck with it.
The Low cam only starts to lose power on a stock ecu because the Stock ECU pulls all the timing from it as it approaches the change over point.... its Toyotas sales pitch for vvtL-i, that sudden lurch you feel as lift hits... it totally pointless for performance. a linear power curve is obviously the optimum.
when we were tuning the Vmanage, we found that we were making more and More power from the low cam, and started shifting the lift point upwards... we finished the session with change over at 7200 rpm. the next session we started making power from the high cam.. and then the lift point started to come back southward to where it is now at 6050 rpm.
But to the OP. Spend your time doing alot of research before you make your mind up about buying engine management, and by that i mean... speak to some tuners who have experience with toyota ECU's or who understand their product intimately.
Good Luck with it.
That may be the case with Piggyback Setups. With stand lone ECU's you are not restricted by having to use the stock ECU so changing the lift point has real advantages, NA your looking aroudn the 5750rpm mark.
QUOTE (daviboy @ Jan 4 2009, 09:14 PM)
sorry if this has been covered in a search but couldnt a simple VTEC controller help in this situation or are Toyota ECU's a harder unit to crack?
Not that easy, VTEC stuff just dosent work with VVTI/L
Northy,
My tunes not finished yet. Piggy back or not.. your still using the same hardware... and figuring out how to make power from Both cams takes time.
Ideally youd set the lift point to 7500 rpm... tune the tits outta the low cam, then set the lift point to 4000 rpm.... then tune the High Cam... then lay the dyno graphs over each other and where they interesect, will be the Optimum lift point.... which i will be able to show you in Mid feb sometime when i am back on the dyno.
QUOTE (Blind Kid Seeks @ Jan 5 2009, 07:54 AM)
QUOTE (Northy @ Jan 4 2009, 10:27 PM)
QUOTE (Blind Kid Seeks @ Jan 4 2009, 09:13 AM)
Not entirely true SD.
The Low cam only starts to lose power on a stock ecu because the Stock ECU pulls all the timing from it as it approaches the change over point.... its Toyotas sales pitch for vvtL-i, that sudden lurch you feel as lift hits... it totally pointless for performance. a linear power curve is obviously the optimum.
when we were tuning the Vmanage, we found that we were making more and More power from the low cam, and started shifting the lift point upwards... we finished the session with change over at 7200 rpm. the next session we started making power from the high cam.. and then the lift point started to come back southward to where it is now at 6050 rpm.
But to the OP. Spend your time doing alot of research before you make your mind up about buying engine management, and by that i mean... speak to some tuners who have experience with toyota ECU's or who understand their product intimately.
Good Luck with it.
The Low cam only starts to lose power on a stock ecu because the Stock ECU pulls all the timing from it as it approaches the change over point.... its Toyotas sales pitch for vvtL-i, that sudden lurch you feel as lift hits... it totally pointless for performance. a linear power curve is obviously the optimum.
when we were tuning the Vmanage, we found that we were making more and More power from the low cam, and started shifting the lift point upwards... we finished the session with change over at 7200 rpm. the next session we started making power from the high cam.. and then the lift point started to come back southward to where it is now at 6050 rpm.
But to the OP. Spend your time doing alot of research before you make your mind up about buying engine management, and by that i mean... speak to some tuners who have experience with toyota ECU's or who understand their product intimately.
Good Luck with it.
That may be the case with Piggyback Setups. With stand lone ECU's you are not restricted by having to use the stock ECU so changing the lift point has real advantages, NA your looking aroudn the 5750rpm mark.
QUOTE (daviboy @ Jan 4 2009, 09:14 PM)
sorry if this has been covered in a search but couldnt a simple VTEC controller help in this situation or are Toyota ECU's a harder unit to crack?
Not that easy, VTEC stuff just dosent work with VVTI/L
Northy,
My tunes not finished yet. Piggy back or not.. your still using the same hardware... and figuring out how to make power from Both cams takes time.
Ideally youd set the lift point to 7500 rpm... tune the tits outta the low cam, then set the lift point to 4000 rpm.... then tune the High Cam... then lay the dyno graphs over each other and where they interesect, will be the Optimum lift point.... which i will be able to show you in Mid feb sometime when i am back on the dyno.
Yep been there, done that.
I wouldn't be surprised if the ideal lift point changes greatly between various mods. Even things like CAI and headers seem to soften the transition to lift, and then cause a steeper acceleration on the big cam.
However overlaying the best dyno curve for each cam profile and then taking the intersection is definitely the way to go. With the Mazdas we would engage VICS 50rpm earlier than the intersection on the dyno.
Gav.
However overlaying the best dyno curve for each cam profile and then taking the intersection is definitely the way to go. With the Mazdas we would engage VICS 50rpm earlier than the intersection on the dyno.
Gav.
QUOTE (Blind Kid Seeks @ Jan 5 2009, 08:54 AM)
Northy,
My tunes not finished yet. Piggy back or not.. your still using the same hardware... and figuring out how to make power from Both cams takes time.
Ideally youd set the lift point to 7500 rpm... tune the tits outta the low cam, then set the lift point to 4000 rpm.... then tune the High Cam... then lay the dyno graphs over each other and where they interesect, will be the Optimum lift point.... which i will be able to show you in Mid feb sometime when i am back on the dyno.
My tunes not finished yet. Piggy back or not.. your still using the same hardware... and figuring out how to make power from Both cams takes time.
Ideally youd set the lift point to 7500 rpm... tune the tits outta the low cam, then set the lift point to 4000 rpm.... then tune the High Cam... then lay the dyno graphs over each other and where they interesect, will be the Optimum lift point.... which i will be able to show you in Mid feb sometime when i am back on the dyno.
actually not totally true ..... we did this and in theory it sounds accurate & at one stage i believed this as well ..... however wen we did this in practise we found that the transition point had an impact on the merged tunes ..... so its not as black and white as this ..... i think the thing will be how many hours ur tuner is prepared to mess with it, how deep ur pockets are, how creative the tuner can get with the tune & how fine tuned the tune will be for street vs dyno. The lowest we managed to get lift where on an N/A car no matter how hard u tuned the low cam the hi cam was able to produce more power has been 5400 rpms ..... But mind u this was after countless hours ..... and various different iterations of the tune ..... i honestly cant remember how many hours the car saw on the dyno and how many hours street tuning but to put it into perspective the car must have pulled over 150 dyno runs. The previous guy who tuned my car didnt spend any where near the amount of time we did this time and what we saw was the same result @ 5700 rpms. So with his capabilities was unable to get the hi-cam to produce any more power than the low cam below 5700 rpms ......
Meh horses for corses ...... just get the car tuned to runs safely Andy (BKS) and produce the most amount of power that ur tuner is able to extract from it.
5400rpm switch over point with about 17 hours of tuning....
But everycar is different, although my lift is earlier (as if you could really tell) my torque curve drops off in the top end a bit.
But everycar is different, although my lift is earlier (as if you could really tell) my torque curve drops off in the top end a bit.
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