http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.p...er&f=50&t=7258&
its old.. but i just saw it.
Full Version: dont know if u guys seen this
Hmm its the 4AGE 20V all over again.. 
Factory Claimed Power output - 127KW
Real world Output - 105Kw
Once aircon, Alternator, Waterpump etc was fitted it lost power.
Toyota seems to be building up a reputation..
Remember while these engines are great they are only Naturaly Aspirated engines so its give and take. Like all cars even ones with the closets modifcations one might be marginaly faster/better from an identical two.
The 2ZZGE's Real Engine Power output is in the 130KW Region and here is the development document to prove it (SAE TECHNICAL PAPER SERIES 2000-01-0671)
Development of the High Speed 2ZZ-GE Engine
Takasuke Shikida, Yoshikatsu Nakamura, Tamio Nakakubo
and Hiroyuki Kawase
Toyota Motor Corp.
http://www.users.on.net/~nark/2zzGE%20Engine.pdf
Factory Claimed Power output - 127KW
Real world Output - 105Kw
Once aircon, Alternator, Waterpump etc was fitted it lost power.
Toyota seems to be building up a reputation..
Remember while these engines are great they are only Naturaly Aspirated engines so its give and take. Like all cars even ones with the closets modifcations one might be marginaly faster/better from an identical two.
The 2ZZGE's Real Engine Power output is in the 130KW Region and here is the development document to prove it (SAE TECHNICAL PAPER SERIES 2000-01-0671)
Development of the High Speed 2ZZ-GE Engine
Takasuke Shikida, Yoshikatsu Nakamura, Tamio Nakakubo
and Hiroyuki Kawase
Toyota Motor Corp.
http://www.users.on.net/~nark/2zzGE%20Engine.pdf
Anyways, the recall is real, so they will increase the power output of the sportivo's as they did in SA.
| QUOTE (SXN16V @ Jul 13 2004, 07:33 AM) |
The 2ZZGE's Real Engine Power output is in the 130KW Region and here is the development document to prove it (SAE TECHNICAL PAPER SERIES 2000-01-0671) |
The output depends on ECU program.
In the us it is 120, in Aus its 130 and in my car it is 153.
Just mod the ecu and you got it. And in Exige its gonna be 170.
You cant say the engine outputs this and that much power. Everything depends on the ECU.
no need to mod the ecu when toyota australia will do everything for you. Thats in regards to the lack of power it has now, to the advertised 141 kw.
Anyways i'll let u guys yack at each other.. about this power issue.
Anyways i'll let u guys yack at each other.. about this power issue.
what im talking about is pure hardware only
no ecus, exhaust, nothing but bare engine
this is what they come out fresh from the development rooms.
which explains why the power output is low. sorry if i've missed that out. but thats the point i forgot to mention. i was hoping to share the true factory form of the 2ZZGE.
power purely at hardware (engine) nothing else.
like what the papers say its noodles and if you want more add seasoning.
your car is obviously 153 after adding the flavour
the 141 toyota aus (11kw increase from SAE papers) would be due to the exhaust (even on the toyota website it states why it has 1kw more then the celica due the exhaust being longer and able to make more power) intake setup, fuel. This is when the power begins to increase when more stuff is added.
so yeah my post above was about the power outputs. in factory form its around the 130kw region.
Fuel grades, exhaust setups, materials, engine load, wheel size, tyre pressure, ecu maps, intake setup, ambient temp, engine/water temps. etc will effect the final power output. its toyotas job to select parts like we do to make them better/faster. americans usualy have lower power due to the lower qaulity of fuel they have there.
no ecus, exhaust, nothing but bare engine
this is what they come out fresh from the development rooms.
which explains why the power output is low. sorry if i've missed that out. but thats the point i forgot to mention. i was hoping to share the true factory form of the 2ZZGE.
power purely at hardware (engine) nothing else.
like what the papers say its noodles and if you want more add seasoning.
your car is obviously 153 after adding the flavour
the 141 toyota aus (11kw increase from SAE papers) would be due to the exhaust (even on the toyota website it states why it has 1kw more then the celica due the exhaust being longer and able to make more power) intake setup, fuel. This is when the power begins to increase when more stuff is added.
so yeah my post above was about the power outputs. in factory form its around the 130kw region.
Fuel grades, exhaust setups, materials, engine load, wheel size, tyre pressure, ecu maps, intake setup, ambient temp, engine/water temps. etc will effect the final power output. its toyotas job to select parts like we do to make them better/faster. americans usualy have lower power due to the lower qaulity of fuel they have there.
| QUOTE (SXN16V @ Jul 13 2004, 07:33 AM) |
| Hmm its the 4AGE 20V all over again.. Factory Claimed Power output - 127KW Real world Output - 105Kw Once aircon, Alternator, Waterpump etc was fitted it lost power. Toyota seems to be building up a reputation.. Remember while these engines are great they are only Naturaly Aspirated engines so its give and take. Like all cars even ones with the closets modifcations one might be marginaly faster/better from an identical two. The 2ZZGE's Real Engine Power output is in the 130KW Region and here is the development document to prove it (SAE TECHNICAL PAPER SERIES 2000-01-0671) Development of the High Speed 2ZZ-GE Engine Takasuke Shikida, Yoshikatsu Nakamura, Tamio Nakakubo and Hiroyuki Kawase Toyota Motor Corp. http://www.users.on.net/~nark/2zzGE%20Engine.pdf |
No ways mate. The SA spec version was rated at 115kW and we got every drop of it.
...I guess you're talking about the 20V, in which case SA must have got more power than Japan then...
A factory blacktop 20V was put on Motec's engine dyno for testing, and these are the figures it made...
http://www.billzilla.org/realblacktop.jpg
This was running with all the ancillaries, ie waterpump, alternator, ac compressor, ps pump etc.
And here is toyota's claimed engine dyno figures...
http://www.billzilla.org/silvervsblack.jpg
can anyone see the difference?
Yep, about 20kw at the flywheel. If you remove the waterpump, alternator, ac compressor and ps pump the engine makes another 20kw... Too bad you can't actually use the motor without a waterpump or alternator. The 20V's perform a LOT better with just the PS pump and AC compressor removed.
A factory blacktop 20V was put on Motec's engine dyno for testing, and these are the figures it made...
http://www.billzilla.org/realblacktop.jpg
This was running with all the ancillaries, ie waterpump, alternator, ac compressor, ps pump etc.
And here is toyota's claimed engine dyno figures...
http://www.billzilla.org/silvervsblack.jpg
can anyone see the difference?
Yep, about 20kw at the flywheel. If you remove the waterpump, alternator, ac compressor and ps pump the engine makes another 20kw... Too bad you can't actually use the motor without a waterpump or alternator. The 20V's perform a LOT better with just the PS pump and AC compressor removed.
Great article, thanks SXN16V. The 2ZZGE engine puts all the HSV V8 engines to shame 
It's a pity the transmission is underdeveloped though. That's why Honda does a better job with their cars because they have got a Motorcycle and F1 division to R&D and implement results into their cars whereas Toyota had to use Yamaha for this engine but i guess left out the tranny. Great engine though and did anyone realise it had the same power as the YAMAHA R1
just that the R1 revs twice as high!
It's a pity the transmission is underdeveloped though. That's why Honda does a better job with their cars because they have got a Motorcycle and F1 division to R&D and implement results into their cars whereas Toyota had to use Yamaha for this engine but i guess left out the tranny. Great engine though and did anyone realise it had the same power as the YAMAHA R1
just that the R1 revs twice as high!
Hi Guys,
Just had a chat to a friend in the legal space concerning the pdf article. What he's told me is it wouldnt/cant be used as evidence to prove anything here in Aus for several Reasons:
1) It is not an Aus standards document
2) The tests were not performed in Aus under Aus conditions i.e. petrol, temp, environment etc
3) As there was a time when the 2ZZ-GE's actually cut out @ 7800 u will notice these guys get max power @ 7600 so how do we know if its a different revision of the engine as the document was produced like 4 years ago.
4) I dont think it stated anywhere in the document that this was the exact engine that would be used for the production line as the document is titled "development of the engine" NOT "our production engine".
These are just some things my friend spotted which a toyota legal team would rip appart if anyone was thinking about using this legally.
Besides that i think its a great article with excellent insight.
Cheers
Bill
Just had a chat to a friend in the legal space concerning the pdf article. What he's told me is it wouldnt/cant be used as evidence to prove anything here in Aus for several Reasons:
1) It is not an Aus standards document
2) The tests were not performed in Aus under Aus conditions i.e. petrol, temp, environment etc
3) As there was a time when the 2ZZ-GE's actually cut out @ 7800 u will notice these guys get max power @ 7600 so how do we know if its a different revision of the engine as the document was produced like 4 years ago.
4) I dont think it stated anywhere in the document that this was the exact engine that would be used for the production line as the document is titled "development of the engine" NOT "our production engine".
These are just some things my friend spotted which a toyota legal team would rip appart if anyone was thinking about using this legally.
Besides that i think its a great article with excellent insight.
Cheers
Bill
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