i wanna know if there r any aftermarket ECU for the 2zz runx, asides from C-ONE and TRD ??

Members here have used the Apexi Power FC (But it's not plug in, it needs to be tuned)

motec is also another option but its prolly the most $$$$ to.

Greddy just released specs on the new Z-Manage, system which allows tuning of VVT and control of Lift engagement.....we've been watching this pretty close for the past couple days, sounds like the real deal finally

What's the price looking so far JCTurbo

about $450 USD.....50,000 yen

Do you guys maybe have an internet link for this product as I am very interested..

Greek

Nengun has the vmanage listed for about $460, you would really have to get the emange ultimate aswell to make full use of it. No point being able to alter the cam timing if you can't modify the ignition timing and fuel delivery. The emanage ultimate is required to modify the ignition timing and fuel control.

http://www.trust-power.com/06new/e2006/061206_vmanage.html

By the time you purchase both, wire it in and get it tuned, it would cost more than a powerfc.

you could also try the hydra EMS ..... from the looks of things this unit is starting to get popular in the US for the celica's .... will it plug and play in the corolla or suffer similar issues like the pfc ? dunno .... has anyone used one here in aus ? not that i knw of ..... so ur really going to have to read up on it from the US

hi there JC TURBO..

im very interested...can i get one...im from south africa and i would like to purchase one...
at the moment my family is visiting austrailia..they are in melbourn...is it possible for me to buy one of these...

i really need this...

how reliable is the car with this ecu on?

Hardly....both E-manage Ultimate and Z manage combined is under $1000USD. Plus you don't a custom Wiring harness, and months of time tuning just for a good base setting

you must have really average dyno tuners in the US if you require a month to get a decent map. Takes the good tuners here about 2-3 hours.

For Australian purchasers from Nengun, the 2ZZ PFC is $845. Some simple re-pinning of the harness and you're on your way to the dyno tuner for about $300 worth of tuning.

For the Ultimate/Vmanage setup, from Nengun again you need:

Emanage Ultimate - $573
Greddy Complete Harness set - $90
Vmanage - $471

That totals $1134, and you need to hack into your factory loom to install it unless you spend another couple of hundred on a fields harness, which you can also use for the repinning to install a 2ZZ Celica PFC if you're not very good at remembering which wires you swapped around.

Then you're still up for a few hundred in dyno costs on top of the greddy setup as the tuner has to test the limits of the piggyback setup to see when they go too far and the stock ECU/knock sensor over-ride the signals the greddy setup is trying to modify. The stock knock control is a real pain when using piggybacks and trying to get the best gains. What's the point of spending close to $1500 AUD on a piggyback setup if you're not going for the best gains possible?

We got a decent increase on my brothers car with an emanage, we could have got more with a powerfc.

Hey mate, lmk if you getting this cos I am also interested. Need to make the x run here lol...

Greek

id definantly go for the Apple duo core big HP gains to be had there!!!!!

Nahh as mantioned the MoTec is an awsome option i have not witnessed but have had a tuna claim 140kw atw aparently it was i think!!!!!!! neil bates' sportivo.... without CAI but using a hf cat and exhaust...

highly unlikely pete that it would get to 140kw atw with just the motec .... reason i say this is the engineers @ motec sent me the dyno run statistics from their work on a sportivo and it wasnt even close 2 that figure ....

lol hence my caful choice of words

Neal Bates doesnt tune 2ZZ's


However, a member here (Neil Trama) is now the tuner of the ex-Leanne Ferrier car which did make 140kw+ at the wheels with a massive exhaust, nice intake, Motec and blueprinted.

What sort of figures are you people really getting from the engine ATW?

Not sure if anyone has thought of this, but there is another locally built option which gets a bad wrap it really doesnt deserve, and can't be beat in the bang for buck stakes.


Microtech.


I run a Microtech LT10S with X4 igniter (direct ignition), Bosch coils (biggest ones they make.... PAC racing uses the very same on their 1000hp+ rotary MX6 7 second dragster), Wideband sensor, dash unit and onboard logging option.

Now, Microtech gets a bad wrap which goes back to their MT series ecus...however, the LTS series ecu's (LT10S, LT12S and the yet to be released LT16S - all full stand alone units) are fairly sophisticated. 16x16 maps (32x32 on its way apparently), 3 outputs (to control things like thermo fans, idle air control, and even your lift point...), 2 inputs (I run one on my airconditioning compressor and add a bit of timing to up the revs when the A/C kicks in, the other one i'm not currently using but could be used for 2step launch control, or N2O, or water injection...you name it), easy to use software, etc etc.

Ok its not as sophisticated as motec or haltech, but for the price (just over a grand for the LT10S on its own) its hard to ignore.

With just the ecu upgrade alone, i shaved 6 tenths off my PB quartermile...

Disadvantages are that appart from the LT16S, there is no closed loop fuel control....its also not as fine grained as a Motec ecu in the tune resolution department, although it is more than sufficiant for most uses.

Not sure if they make a 2ZZ setup yet...but all they really need is details on how your Crank Angle Sensor works, and how your Cam Angle Sensor works so they can figure out which cylinder to fire at.

I'd recommend it to anyone after an entry level ecu, which is easy enough to tune on the street by yourself....

Microtech isn't advanced enough to control VVTLi. Motec and PFC are the main ones so far, Adaptronic can also control it with the latest firmware.

It'll never get the "i" part working, you are right... variable valve timing on any car is difficult to control with an aftermarket ecu.


Assuming though, that lift is activated via an electrical signal at a given RPM point, (like vtec), you would be able to control Lift at least via the AUXOUT RPM wire on the microtech.

Things that the microtech CANT control, you can leave in the hands of the standard ECU in alot of cases... of course it would require some experimentation.....if you leave enough of the standard ECU harness intact so as it knows whats going on, but can't do anything about it, and assuming it doesnt give a damn about that fact, you could concievably control the variable valve timing with the standard ecu and move the lift point around with the microtech....

assuming alot of course...i dont drive a corolla - but there was someone on the microtech forums looking at playing around with an MT on a 2ZZ....

The MoTec on our 2ZZ rally car was originally tuned by the MoTec engineers and it was far from optimum... "Crap" actually. That's why their figures weren't impressive, because they haven't really had much 2ZZ experience.
The member that micky_t mentioned up there then tuned our MoTec and now it's a weapon

vvti is easy to control with the powerfc, you have a dedicated VVT map:

http://www.imagebeaver.com/view.php?mode=g...103&photo=1

Anyone??? real figures???
also while im here anything happening on the Gold Coast in the next six weeks?

"i love my ROLLA!!"

Do you have to do work to the engine for these ecu upgrades to take effect, or are they giving good gains
by themselves with a standard engine (2zz). if so roughly how much gains we talking on average?

Im guessing the search button yielded no results?

I'm not sure anyone here has MoTec'd a road car. What's Northy making out of the PFC?

if memory serves me right, northy was pushing around 121 kw atw give or take a kw with the PFC - tuned of course...lift was at 5800 and redline was at 8600

feel free to correct those figures if they incorrect mr north

the tuners dyno showed 119kw (although northy pipped me by 2kw's other results have shown that the blue bombshell still man handles the black turd hey corey ) ..... the place where i base line dyno showed 124kw .... and for fun another run showed 128kw ... ALL where done on dyno dynamics dyno's in shootout mode .... nice big variance hey .... which figure 2 believe ?????? Hence my strong stance on dyno's not being a true measure of a cars capabilities .... but hey we've had that arguement before now havent we

No the search didnt work for the question i had asked. hence asking the question. And im guessing u dont know the answer yourself otherwise i would have had a more constructive reply.

I am involved in engine building and tuning for 3 Celicas in the APCC, 1 Corolla that we race at Nurburgring in the 24 hour race, 2 Lotus Exiges and 1 rally Corolla Sportivo. These cars use the 2ZZ-GE.

It is very important for performance to control the variable valve timing in closed loop. That is measuring the actual valve timing and tracking it using a Pulse Width Modulated output (PWM) using Proportional Integral and Derivative Gain (PID) control. Lower end aftermarket ECUs cannot handle this type of closed loop control and are at risk of delivering lower performance than standard.

The only ECUs that I really know can do this is the Motec M400/600/800 series. Others may but I am very unlikely to use them anyway.

We have 130kW at the hubs (Dynapack) DIN corrected for Temp Baro and Humidity on our "production" engines and 150kw ON OUR 1933cc strokers. Straight out of the box we get 110kW from Celicas before we play with them.

Neil

Neil I'm interested to know, have you installed the Piper Cams in the 'production' engines?

If so, is that the figure you have given and if not, what gains have you seen?

I would definitely not install the Piper cams on a production engine. That would be highly illegal.

I will be running the Piper Stage 2 cams in our Corolla Sportivo 1933cc engine on the dyno on saturday for the first time.

I have driven the car on the road and I feel that the transition to "lift" is much softer and early indications are that there are good gains from 4000 to 5500 RPM. Of course time will tell.

Watch this space.

Neil

Very interested to know the outcome of that. BE sure to keep us all informed

Sorry, didn't realise regulations do not allow modifications to the cam profile in GTP, but I should have guessed.

Out of interest what can be done and still be legal. Do you have a copy of the regulations or know where they are available from?

I look forward to seeing the Celicas out there again this year, hopefully the can go through the season incident free this year.

The 3zz ended up being a bit disappointing on saturday with peak power being 143kW.

The encouraging thing was that the power at 5500 RPM went from 130 to 150kW with the Piper cams installed.

Investigation of an occasional severe misfire that proved difficult to diagnose on Sunday turned out to be a faulty catalytic converter (Nurburgring 24 Hours rules require a cat). What had happened was that the cat internal matrix had melted and collapsed and had turned through 90 degrees almost completely blocking the exhaust.

143kW at the hubs is therefore not too bad with a blocked exhaust. I will have the car back on the Australian Defence Force Academy Dynapack Dyno later this month and will report my findings.

Neil

PS I checked my records and the power output of last years otherwise "standard" 3zz-ge was 140kW NOT 150kW as stated. I had 150kW in my head as that is what I was hoping to get on saturday.

is that figure on the 3zz tuned with the motec? could you give us a break down on what would be the ideal set-up to do a proper 3zz conversion, i was seriously considering this option

Remember that hub dynos usually post slightly higher numbers, but have higher precision compared to your conventional dynos. Given that once you've got your baseline, its more accurate in measuring the difference then the dynos that most of us encounter.

So if we start off with a 110kw atw(baseline) to 150kw atw (with piper cams + Stoker kit)....we are looking at a 40kw increase........which would set if off to around 180kw (more due to inertial and heat loss actually) at the flywheel???? Is that about right, or am I off my head at the moment. Really shows the capability of the Motec ECU....damn.....but the price...

well thats a great figure which pretty much wips most front wheel drive cars on the road even giving a modded teg type r a run for its money. But then again getting an lsd and decent brakes after that would be a must .

amen 2 that brother