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Kroeger

2004 Toyota Corolla Conquest Ownership Diary

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Kroeger    3
1 hour ago, campbeam said:

One way to check the size of the rotors is to remove a wheel and use a wooden ruler to measure the diameter. You should be able to readily determine whether it is 255mm or 275mm. If you want to be pedantically accurate, then you will have to remove the existing rotor and measure the back.

Yesterday, I had a look at some DBA vs RDA rotor reviews in different forums. Posts were quite divided and nothing conclusive. I have fitted slotted DBA front rotors to my 1998 Camry and was a bit surprised at the amount of wear after only 7,000 kms. I am sure that I fitted Bendix Ultimate brake pads and I am quite light on the brakes.

Anyway, I recently bought DBA front rotors for a Yaris with 195,000kms only to find that the current rotors [rusted on the outer rim] have hardly worn [21.5mm thickness vs 22mm new]. However brake pads are fairly worn down but probably have another 6mths life. My thoughts are that rotor wear is dependent upon quality, type of brake pad and driving style/requirements.

I was just being lazy with the brake measurements. 

I was told by a retailer that DBA and RDA along with few others were made in Asia as opposed to locally. Not much choice there.

52 minutes ago, Hiro said:

255 should be the standard size, 275 were the Sportivo brakes but I know some of the catalogues list the 275mm as an option for the ZZE122 for some reason (maybe as part of a towing kit or something? Facelift?  Jap vs South African built?)

I had a look at both Jap and Sth African ones. Jap-255mm and Sth African-258mm

I always thought the rear brakes were smaller than the front ones but the Corolla has 269mm rear and 255mm fronts. The fronts being vented and the rears being solid.

 

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Kroeger    3

Anyone here using DBA T2 rotors. Please post some pics of what they look like after being used.

 

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Kroeger    3

After much deliberation I went with RDA rears and DBA fronts. RDA rears are solid discs and the DBA fronts are slotted.

Will be testing them out with Toyota Original pads, front and rear.

Now to get them fitted to the car.

IMG_20170719_123521.thumb.jpg.8c476b1c5a6dc3045f652da4bdd317df.jpg

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IMG_20170719_124120.jpg

IMG_20170719_123824.jpg

IMG-20170720-WA0039.jpeg

IMG-20170720-WA0033.jpeg

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Kroeger    3

Sorry for the bad lighting. It got dark by the time I was done.

Braking is on point now. Will see how it goes once all components are bed in.

IMG_20170730_200450.jpg

IMG_20170730_155944.jpg

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Kroeger    3

After a week of usage, the DBA rotors have surface rust already.(shocking  in terms of the price paid)

 

The RDA rotors are  rust free.

IMG_20170806_151636.jpg

IMG_20170806_151621.jpg

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Hiro    272
2 hours ago, Kroeger said:

After a week of usage, the DBA rotors have surface rust already.(shocking  in terms of the price paid)

 

The RDA rotors are  rust free.

IMG_20170806_151636.jpg

IMG_20170806_151621.jpg

The grooves aren't being constantly cleaned by the pads, thats why they are rusty.  Remember that rotors are cast-iron, unless they are specifically treated/painted then they will always rust.

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Kroeger    3
29 minutes ago, Hiro said:

The grooves aren't being constantly cleaned by the pads, thats why they are rusty.  Remember that rotors are cast-iron, unless they are specifically treated/painted then they will always rust.

I expected some kind of treatment on the DBA ones. I WS under the impression that they would be a higher carbon content iron cast.

The paint overspray came off with brake cleaner. 

All in all not impressed by the DBA rotors.

Any solution for the grooves not being cleaned by the pads?

 

 

 

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Kroeger    3

The hats were painted but looks like like the rotor material the paint was crap quality too. Better to buy cheaper ones and paint them yourself.

Not impressed

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trentmeyer23    467

This is common amongst all slotted rotors. 

Hand paint them if you are that concerned.

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Hiro    272
13 hours ago, Kroeger said:

I expected some kind of treatment on the DBA ones. I WS under the impression that they would be a higher carbon content iron cast.

The paint overspray came off with brake cleaner. 

All in all not impressed by the DBA rotors.

Any solution for the grooves not being cleaned by the pads?

The grooves aren't designed to be cleaned by the pads, they are there to help remove gasses generated under repeated heavy braking events and to also act as a knife-edge to clean the pad.  The bottom of the groove will never be touched by the pad until the rotors are worn down to that level, at which point they will almost certainly be past their wear limits and need to be replaced.

 

Personally I'm more concerned with performance than looks.  If the DBAs stop the car well, then a little surface rust (which is all it is, if you really wanted to you could scuff it back and then paint those areas with high-temp brake paint yourself, making sure to mask off any area touched by the pads) is nothing to worry about.

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Kroeger    3
2 hours ago, Hiro said:

The grooves aren't designed to be cleaned by the pads, they are there to help remove gasses generated under repeated heavy braking events and to also act as a knife-edge to clean the pad.  The bottom of the groove will never be touched by the pad until the rotors are worn down to that level, at which point they will almost certainly be past their wear limits and need to be replaced.

 

Personally I'm more concerned with performance than looks.  If the DBAs stop the car well, then a little surface rust (which is all it is, if you really wanted to you could scuff it back and then paint those areas with high-temp brake paint yourself, making sure to mask off any area touched by the pads) is nothing to worry about.

The main area of disappointment the DBA don't offer any improvement over stock in daily driving.

In saying that I have only driven approximately 200kms so far.

The little surface rust is causing ridging on the braking surfaces.

 

 

Edited by Kroeger

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Hiro    272
1 hour ago, Kroeger said:

The main area of disappointment the DBA don't offer any improvement over stock in daily driving.

In saying that I have only driven approximately 200kms so far.

The little surface rust is causing ridging on the braking surfaces.

Slotted rotors aren't meant to offer any significant benefit in daily driving, they're a performance product.  If you're only driving this thing to work or down to the shops then slotted rotors are complete overkill.

 

Got any photos to explain what you mean by the ridging?  Any rust that forms on the actual friction surface will be wiped away in seconds by the pads at the first stop sign/traffic lights, and anything not on the friction surface is irrelevant

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Kroeger    3
11 hours ago, Hiro said:

Slotted rotors aren't meant to offer any significant benefit in daily driving, they're a performance product.  If you're only driving this thing to work or down to the shops then slotted rotors are complete overkill.

 

Got any photos to explain what you mean by the ridging?  Any rust that forms on the actual friction surface will be wiped away in seconds by the pads at the first stop sign/traffic lights, and anything not on the friction surface is irrelevant

The OEM ones have a very lazy feel. I was hoping with the new pads and rotors I'd get good better braking response which unfortunately didnt happen. Tried driving around the usual bends faster(within legal limits) and couldn't find any improvements.

I had a look at the discs again and it was just pad marks and not grooves/ridges. Phew

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trentmeyer23    467

You need to do more research about brakes. Unless you are tracking these brakes/rotors, you will probably not notice any difference. The difference comes in heat dissipation after constant repeated braking efforts.

We are starting to get the impression that you are complaining for the sake of complaining.

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campbeam    76

Because I have been messaging Kroeger, it is more a case of disappointment that the DBA front rotors have started to look like this after only 1 week of daily driving. I think that for what he spent, he could have probably got 2 sets of quality standard rotors.  As I have said to him, I have not noticed any rust on the RDA slotted and dimpled front rotors on my 1998 Camry, quite possibly there is a fine coating of brake dust.

7 hours ago, trentmeyer23 said:

The difference comes in heat dissipation after constant repeated braking efforts.

Agree, exactly what I am thinking and the slotted vented rotor has to be designed for better air flow for heat dissipation. Also, I understand that the bedding in process for new rotors and pads should be fully complete after about 500kms of driving.

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Kroeger    3
On 07/08/2017 at 11:49 PM, trentmeyer23 said:

You need to do more research about brakes. Unless you are tracking these brakes/rotors, you will probably not notice any difference. The difference comes in heat dissipation after constant repeated braking efforts.

We are starting to get the impression that you are complaining for the sake of complaining.

I understand how these rotors are designed to work and I am sharing my feedback that under normal driving these do not provide any benefits. If these are meant for track why are they being marketed in the street series by DBA? The reason why I went with these was to provide myself with a better braking experience. Which has sadly not happened.

The salt on those wounds, if you may is the lack of any protective coating from factory.

I might have been a bit more dramatic than I would've liked to be, but hey I am the one who spent the $ to buy them. So your opinion on my complaints are void.

On 08/08/2017 at 7:10 AM, campbeam said:

Because I have been messaging Kroeger, it is more a case of disappointment that the DBA front rotors have started to look like this after only 1 week of daily driving. I think that for what he spent, he could have probably got 2 sets of quality standard rotors.  As I have said to him, I have not noticed any rust on the RDA slotted and dimpled front rotors on my 1998 Camry, quite possibly there is a fine coating of brake dust.

Agree, exactly what I am thinking and the slotted vented rotor has to be designed for better air flow for heat dissipation. Also, I understand that the bedding in process for new rotors and pads should be fully complete after about 500kms of driving.

When it comes to safety I wanted to buy the best set of rotors I could afford and hence went with DBA from the choices we had discussed because they seemed to have the best quality product. 

Like I said earlier, I will let it complete the proper run in as per DBA website and try to cycle them like track use to see if they resist fade. I was not looking to becoming a braking GOD after getting these rotors just improved braking.

I guess my feedback is bursting a lot of placebo bubbles.

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trentmeyer23    467
7 hours ago, Kroeger said:

The reason why I went with these was to provide myself with a better braking experience. Which has sadly not happened.

Rotors are not going to give this to you.

I didn't say that they were designed for track use, I said that the difference would be noticed then(or under similar conditions). Pulling up hard at a set of traffic lights on the way to the shops will feel pretty much the same.

Pads and caliper upgrades will make a larger difference in bite feel.

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Kroeger    3
4 hours ago, trentmeyer23 said:

Rotors are not going to give this to you.

I didn't say that they were designed for track use, I said that the difference would be noticed then(or under similar conditions). Pulling up hard at a set of traffic lights on the way to the shops will feel pretty much the same.

Pads and caliper upgrades will make a larger difference in bite feel.

These were designed to provide better performance in street use that's why they are in the street series. Its misleading that the benefits can only be felt if these are tracked.

DBA doesn't mention these as suitable for Motorsport.

http://www.dba.com.au/products/street-performance/

Now you tell me who do I believe, you or the manufacturer. Cause one of you is lying.

Will surely experiment with different pads as I go.

 

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trentmeyer23    467
1 hour ago, Kroeger said:

These were designed to provide better performance in street use that's why they are in the street series. Its misleading that the benefits can only be felt if these are tracked.

DBA doesn't mention these as suitable for Motorsport.

http://www.dba.com.au/products/street-performance/

Now you tell me who do I believe, you or the manufacturer. Cause one of you is lying.

Will surely experiment with different pads as I go.

They can be used on the street. There are also plenty of street series rotors being used at track days, so no one is "lying". Other similar heavy braking scenarios could include downhill mountain runs.

You are still barking up the wrong tree for the improvements you want, but it doesn't seem that you can accept this. 

Contact DBA and make your complaints known to them if you really believe that you have been lied to.

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Kroeger    3
15 hours ago, trentmeyer23 said:

They can be used on the street. There are also plenty of street series rotors being used at track days, so no one is "lying". Other similar heavy braking scenarios could include downhill mountain runs.

You are still barking up the wrong tree for the improvements you want, but it doesn't seem that you can accept this. 

Contact DBA and make your complaints known to them if you really believe that you have been lied to.

I had a conversation with DBA and the guy from their technical department confirmed that these are slotted street rotors not meant from track use. They aren't made with track in mind. 

He also mentioned that the benefits under normal driving would be around 10% compared to OEM.

He did say the slotted rotors come into their own during rains.

He mentioned the 4000 and 5000 series being the ones catering to track use.

He also said you can track the T2 rotors but that's not what they are designed for. They are are just street rotors with slots.

Makes you think as the OEM ones cost half the price. (Feedback not barking)

17 hours ago, Kroeger said:

These were designed to provide better performance in street use that's why they are in the street series. Its misleading that the benefits can only be felt if these are tracked.

DBA doesn't mention these as suitable for Motorsport.

http://www.dba.com.au/products/street-performance/

Now you tell me who do I believe, you or the manufacturer. Cause one of you is lying.

Will surely experiment with different pads as I go.

 

I request you to read the last 2 lines again. 

I cannot just afford to change perfectly new brake pads without knowing if the next set will indeed provide benefits for my usage. Same with the calipers.

I am sharing my feedback and not barking, you need to accept this. 

Edited by Kroeger

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trentmeyer23    467
1 hour ago, Kroeger said:

I am sharing my feedback and not barking, you need to accept this. 

 

20170810_142428.thumb.jpg.3ec5a86effab931a37baa3ece8d4c8dd.jpg

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Kroeger    3
17 hours ago, trentmeyer23 said:

You are still barking up the wrong tree for the improvements you want, but it doesn't seem that you can accept this. 

It was to do with the latter part of your statement. It is your assumption that I am not accepting that rotors alone will give me better braking. You aren't open to the fact that the street series are meant for the street and any benefit should be felt on the street. Not just after tracking them. Maybe change the tree you are barking upon. 

The chat with the DBA guy helped me understand what i can expect from these rotors and I will try to test them accordingly. Now that I have purchased them I have to live with them. The price vs performance of these rotors points to the fact that its not worth it.

I have given the feedback about the rust and they promised to get back to me with a solution. They were just as surprised with the rust appearing within a week of usage.

Edited by Kroeger

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trentmeyer23    467

I also stated such things as downhill mountain runs.

My point is, running to the shops to get a loaf of bread or not really getting the brakes hot will probably not show any form of improved braking. I used a track day as an example of getting brakes hot and you have ran with that as the only scenario that has been given.

I could not care less that DBA have said they are not designed for track use. The point is people have used them on track days without issue and have noticed improvements over stock rotors.

Anyway, I will not be responding any further to this thread, unless for moderation purposes, in an effort to not clog it up with back and forth rhetoric.

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Kroeger    3
1 hour ago, trentmeyer23 said:

I also stated such things as downhill mountain runs.

My point is, running to the shops to get a loaf of bread or not really getting the brakes hot will probably not show any form of improved braking. I used a track day as an example of getting brakes hot and you have ran with that as the only scenario that has been given.

I could not care less that DBA have said they are not designed for track use. The point is people have used them on track days without issue and have noticed improvements over stock rotors.

Anyway, I will not be responding any further to this thread, unless for moderation purposes, in an effort to not clog it up with back and forth rhetoric.

Maybe someone who lives around a hilly area would benefit from these rotors.

Takumi Fujiwara in the house?

Thanks for helping me understand the rotors better.

Cheers

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