High Rev Shifting

[Popeye]

Hi all,

I know this topic was talked about some time ago. I am unsure of the outcome if anyone can help me with this, or if anyone still has problems.

I've had my Sportivo since April this year. From day one, I've noticed that when I'm at around 7,800 revs, I am unable to shift out of first, at least until the revs have dropped. This is making it almost impossible to land the gear change in lift. The best I've been able to do is 2nd gear at approx 5,500rpm.

I spoke to Toyota at Pennant Hills yesterday, took my car in for a technician to come for a spin with me. He even called the Tech guys at Toyota? They gave an answer to do with a pin or something that actually intentionally stops you from changing gears at such high revs so as not to blow the engine etc.

Basically, I just want to know if this is true. If this is true, I'm wandering what happened to the sportivo's out there that do not have this problem??

Thanks all.

[BenT]

Thats just a load of crap to be honest. I got my tivo less than 2 months and i am already having problems with it. I have driven 4 different sportivos not including the test drives i have had and half or them work and the others dont. The kicker is i have problems changing starting at 7k rpm and at 7400 its basically impossible without crunching.

Yowzer my buddy who bought the car at the same time and place (MCT) does not have any problems. We swapped cars and we had the same results.

Brought the car in to MCT to complain. The technician gave me a runaround giving all types of excuses such as the car isnt made to rev so high. Im like it shows the red line at 8200, if that car cant shift at even 7200 , then it appears like Toyota is doing some false advertising. Then he is saying that his 30 year experienced technician had no problems with it, i told him to bring his technician out and show it to me. He gave me a lame excuse that the guy is on his lunch so i told him i would wait for him to get back. Came back later and gave another excuse that he had made a mistake and the technician wasnt done looking at my car yet. Waited another half an hour and then he told me there seem to be a problem with the clutch and there were going to order a new one and replace it. Now i have read here that someone had theirs change and it didnt fix anything and i kinda expect the same, but at least its getting somewhere. I want toyota to notice this isnt just a one off problem.

Before i got this car, i had a temporary tivo while waiting for them to fix the power issue and that car had the same problem but probably worse. That car had 10k millage when i got it.

New clutch in in 2 weeks as im too busy with work, will keep you guys posted if your interested.

[Blick]

Hi all,

I know this topic was talked about some time ago.  I am unsure of the outcome if anyone can help me with this, or if anyone still has problems.

I've had my Sportivo since April this year.  From day one, I've noticed that when I'm at around 7,800 revs, I am unable to shift out of first, at least until the revs have dropped.  This is making it almost impossible to land the gear change in lift.  The best I've been able to do is 2nd gear at approx 5,500rpm. 

I spoke to Toyota at Pennant Hills yesterday, took my car in for a technician to come for a spin with me.  He even called the Tech guys at Toyota?  They gave an answer to do with a pin or something that actually intentionally stops you from changing gears at such high revs so as not to blow the engine etc.

Basically, I just want to know if this is true.  If this is true, I'm wandering what happened to the sportivo's out there that do not have this problem??

Thanks all.

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Sounds like BS to me, mine does the same thing and it seems worse than ever, my next service is in a couple of weeks and I'll get them to look harder this time.

I'm no mechanic but I feel that the clutch is not fully dissegaging at high RPM, when I shift in lift it takes a lot off force to get it out of first then crunches into second gear.

I've had the recall done.

Has anyone asked on the Celica forum if they are having similar problems?

[qkslvr]

That is Total Bull-Winkle!!!! If i was there i would have given him a piece of my mind. he is basically calling you an idiot by offering that excuse! The car makes its peak power and torque in that region of the rev range. so to say that the car will not allow you to shift that high is total porcupines! You should have gotten his name and report him to Toyota HQ. I'm sure it breaches some code of conduct about misleading customers.

anyway, My car doesn't have that problem. I've had my car for almost a year now and its done it a total of two times. I think it might have been due to mis-timed shifting (clutch + and shifter not moved in the right timing) besides that i don't have that problem at all.

If you want I will be more than willing to come out to the dealership with you on a weekend with my car to show the moron there the difference between the two cars. I hate it when dealer bull****. It's not that hard for them to just say they "don't know" and give you a number to someone else who can help.

BTW, mine's silver so that could be the reason mine is ok Silver is built better. The South Africans at the factory prefered silver too.

Edited October 27, 2004 by qkslvr

[BenT]

hah i was gonna bring my friend car in as well if he kept on with that lame excuse. I said to him that my buddy couldnt shift to 2nd in my car as well but i did not have problem doing it in his. Its no coincidence.

He basically wanted me to leave and try the car a bit longer cause i only had 2k millage then. And we saw that im no pushover ( i work in a complaints department, i know how to complain ), he was more helpful. To be fair to him, i gave him a call today to get an update and he is much better than before. He said someone from toyota will be taking a look at the car when i send it in. I sure hope they send someone there and fix this thing once and for all.

[Tivo Matt]

hah i was gonna bring my friend car in as well if he kept on with that lame excuse. I said to him that my buddy couldnt shift to 2nd in my car as well but i did not have problem doing it in his. Its no coincidence.

He basically wanted me to leave and try the car a bit longer cause i only had 2k millage then. And we saw that im no pushover ( i work in a complaints department, i know how to complain ), he was more helpful. To be fair to him, i gave him a call today to get an update and he is much better than before. He said someone from toyota will be taking a look at the car when i send it in. I sure hope they send someone there and fix this thing once and for all.

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I have never had the problem changing from 1st to 2nd. My problem has always been 2nd to 3rd. I got the selector cables done and it appeared to be worse for the first couple of days... but now its sweet as. I haven't had a problem for a while now *touches wood*. I also found that if i give it a little tap on the accelerator just as i'm engaging the clutch it landed a lot smoother and easier. I know you shouldn't HAVE to do that... but hey... it might help and i'm sure one of the more mechanically minded could explain why this might be so?. But yeah... atm mine seems to be shifting smoothly.

[Sport1vo]

The revised gear selector cable and heavier knob fixed this issue with my stivo.

also, the dealer is talking sh*1*t.

[SILVABULLIT]

Must be something that doesn't affect silver cars. I've never missed 1st to 2nd change but have sometimes missed 2nd to 3rd. i haven't had selector cable recall done yet but I think some of the trouble could be that you are trying to force it through too hard. It's not a race box. There's a difference between changing quickly and just reefing it through. I'm not saying that you don't have a problem but i've seen the way some Stivo drivers absolutely punish their gearbox with flat changing etc but the clutch is there for a reason. It's not there for decoration you just have to push it in before changing gears. I have missed 2nd to 3rd sometimes due to not pushing the clutch in far enough and actually hitting the gate between 3rd and 5th. You can change quickly but it takes a little practice and some finesse. Try it some time it might just work.

If you guy's think the box in the stivo is bad then go and drive an early 911 Porsche. It's almost agricultural and it takes some skill to master a quick change.As for giving the throttle a little rev between gears all it does is spin the engine speed up to be closer to the speed that the gearbox is turning at. There are many cars out there that this is a necessity especially on a down change due to the design of the gearbox itself or generally it's got crook syncro's.

Cheers SILVABULLIT. :D

PS. I'm not saying that you guys can't drive but you can't always blame the equipment when sometimes it's the operator at fault. We all do it at sometimes don't we!

[ADR_rolla]

ok fair enough comment.. but you have no clue on this topic, trust me i have driven 3 sportivos. One with the problem and two without the problem. And trust me, it is a problem. You should try driving my car and then you will add another message on here. I have had other sportivo drivers drive my car, and have all said wtf as they dont have the problem.

"I'm not saying that you guys can't drive but you can't always blame the equipment when sometimes it's the operator at fault. We all do it at sometimes don't we!"

of course you blame it, cause it is ******. Think about it silver, ok might happen here or there. But if it happens everytime you take it into lift well what do you think? compared to when you are changing gears fast in lower revs without a prob what could the fault be? the eqipment or the operator?

Edited October 27, 2004 by ADR_rolla

[Blackzze]

I agree with ADR Rolla AND Silvabullit

It is easy to try and change gears in the stivo and not push the clutch in (at least for me..... i wish i had a 'half step' in my seat adjustment- one step is too close, and the other is too far!!)

However, I have tried all manners of shifting....making sure the clutch is fully depressed, smooth shifts, fast shifts etc..... and my gearbox goes well in 1st to 2nd about 5% of the time, and recentley it will NOT go to third from second,

and clutch is fully depressed, at times i have had to try THREE times to get it into gear (this happens around 10% of the time, only when im giving it s**t).

These shifting mechanisms/gearbox does have issues in some cars.

I'm generally a smooth but pacey driver, I've learnt to be this way in my car, as i find it's the fastest way around, especially in a mountain charge. So with this in mind, I don't heave or rip the shifter around, it just doesnt work in our cars.

But I still have the shift issue :o :o :o car is going for 40k service next week, so i will pressure them to get onto it.

[BenT]

Like i said, i drove my friends car and i had no problems at all changing from 1st to 2nd...not even once and i drove it for quite a while. He got in my car and couldnt do a smooth change once.

I can gurantee you its not a driver thing. I have had many people drive my car thinking it could be me and none of them could do it. I have problems changing at 7000 revs let alone 8000++. And im not doing any quick gear changes, just any normal whatever technique you want to use wont get it in smoothly. If i change below lift its no problem at all. Thats why i said to the guy at MCT i would like to see his man do it and he wasnt prepared to proved me wrong it seems.

The guy there also said that he didnt think the gear selector would fix the problem, saying it was just to fix a noise issue in the car. I dont know if i should trust any of them there now.

[qkslvr]

I mentioned this way earlier in one of the other threads but when i had my stivo in for it's 10k service i saw a black stivo get towed into the service area. When i asked the owner what happened, he told me the gearbox just jammed in 3rd. Weird. I'm thinking this is probably an extreme case of the "sticky gear" problem. I've had a look at the way the selector cables are routed to the gearbox. I just can't see anyway there would be a problem. The cables run through a nice, smooth and relatively straight path all the way to the linkages.

Although i don't have the problem all the time, I have experienced it a couple of times and can definitely imagine how frustrating it is to not be able to pull out of a gear to shift. It's almost like trying to pull the stick out of gear while the clutch is still engaged even though you've got your foot on the clutch. The only thing I can think of is maybe the way the selector forks are designed. It just doesn't make any sense that changing clutch or flywheel like some other members have fixes the problem. I'm trying to think it through logically and it doesn't make any sense.

[BenT]

yeah i have never been able to get the car to shift properly to 2nd in high revs once since i got the car, talk about frustrating. I didnt want to give back my mates car after driving his trouble free gear box. :P

[Popeye]

Thanks for the replies and information guys.

To those who think this is a driver fault, you guys are extremely lucky to have a gear box that works properly. I love my Sportivo to bits, but hate this one problem. I have absolutely no problems when changing from 1st to 2nd when travelling under 6,000rpm, whether it be shifting quickly or not.

When at those high revs, I have NO choice but to shift like a granny and wait for the gear box to release hold of 1st gear, therefore, never being able to land it in lift.

For those who haven't had this problem, try driving a sportivo with this problem and it won't take you long to agree that it is a problem with the car and NOT the driver. :D

[BenT]

yeah i have never been able to get the car to shift properly to 2nd in high revs once since i got the car, talk about frustrating. I didnt want to give back my mates car after driving his trouble free gear box. :P

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i second that. i stay in melbourne so if any of you want to prove me wrong ..... but if you break it or make it worse, you pay for it :P

[ZEEROLLA]

We have discussed this issue greatly in the past and there are quite a few of us here with 2004 Stivos with the problem, none of them SILVER in color!!! Anyway i started having this problem with 12KM on the odometer!! I then blew my relationship with one dealer and had to blast Jenny at customer relations to get her recommendation for a regional technician see my car but i was so f****n p***ed with them i missed the appointment on purpose because i had a mechanic drive my car and hit LIFT 10 or more times and he told me no problem, just a little stiff!! That is because he was waiting for a second or more before shifting into 2nd, that d***head Driving like he did i might as well get an Automatic car!!

I have found a way to go around the problem though and that is hit rev-limiter in 1st and then shift. I can successfully land LIFT at 6200rpm 95% of the time with a confident quick shift when i do that. Most times i chirp the tyres going into 2nd and you know you nailed it. But there are times i fail and that is like once every 50 times maybe.

Crunching of the gearbox 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd especially when i rev between 7500-8000rpm and shift SLOWLY or normally:blink: Now hear me all the sceptics of the problem, it is worse in my car when shifting SLOWLY at high revs with clutch fully compressed!! I have owned and driven many different manual cars and i am not an idiot who doesn't know how to shift.

Peekay, Ilivfor6 and Shaohaok have had new Clutch, Pressure Plate and Flywheel put in and they all say the gearbox is shifting 100% smooth now. So i guess its up to you guys to try that out. But don't worry guys, just drive as you do and if you break a gear, stuff that up Toyota's **** and get them to give you a new gearbox. A NEW gearbox not a new gear

i think i am goin insane ...

Zee

[JDM RunX]

Hi all,

I've had my Runx for just about 3 months and I can remember atleast 3 times when the "lift" did'nt engage in 1st gear. The rev limiter just kicked in at 5900 rpm, then 2nd gear worked fine. Whenever it happened, I pull over and try again and it never repeats itself. Another problem is that on about 3 occasions my car engine raced during shifting from 2nd to 3rd as if I did'nt realease the gas. Its an awesome but wierd feeling. I get thrown back in my seat and the tyres chirp. The problem is that whenever it happens, I have no control over it, so if I'm behind someone I may crash. Thankfully it only happened on the clear open road. Anybody else experiencing this?

[SILVABULLIT]

OK I admit that some cars obviously have this problem. As I mentioned in my earlier post (some may learn to read!) I said that the car or cars in question may have this problem. I'm not saying you can't drive(as I mentioned) but just offering a another angle with which to look at this problem. To me the problem could be driver related but it seems that some are machinery related. Why replace the clutch,flywheel etc when the problem still exists? It sounds like the gearbox in some cars have a real problem with the actual gear selectors not releasing quickly enough. Toyota mechanics say they have no idea because they probably don't. I don't have the problem(cause it's silver :P ) but if some one does then why not force Toyota to go to a gearbox specialist to solve what sounds like an internal problem? You don't go to the dentist with a sore back. You go to a chiropractor. Guys what I'm saying is force Toyota to get an opinion from a gearbox specialist someone who doesn't work for them and tells them what they want to hear! As for anyone who disagrees with my opinion get over it. I'm not telling you what to do but merely offering another angle with which to solve what seems to be a problem.

Cheers SILVABULLIT. :D :D

[-JC-]

ok fair enough comment.. but you have no clue on this topic, trust me i have driven 3 sportivos. One with the problem and two without the problem. And trust me, it is a problem. You should try driving my car and then you will add another message on here. I have had other sportivo drivers drive my car, and have all said wtf as they dont have the problem.

"I'm not saying that you guys can't drive but you can't always blame the equipment when sometimes it's the operator at fault. We all do it at sometimes don't we!"

of course you blame it, cause it is ******. Think about it silver, ok might happen here or there. But if it happens everytime you take it into lift well what do you think? compared to when you are changing gears fast in lower revs without a prob what could the fault be? the eqipment or the operator?

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How to win friends and influence people.

[Danthuyer]

JDMRunx - Are you having this 'no lift' issue because the engine is cold? remember unless the engine is at a resonable running temperature it wont engauge the high cam!

[JDM RunX]

JDMRunx - Are you having this 'no lift' issue because the engine is cold? remember unless the engine is at a resonable running temperature it wont engauge the high cam!

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Actually the few times the 'no lift" issue happened, the car was parked for a while. But I didn't just start the car and rev it. I know better than that but I do admit that it was after minimal driving at low revs after a cold start.

[ADR_rolla]

yes you did offer a different angle silver as i mentioned... (fair enough comment

) but this different angle doesnt apply to our cars (some may learn to read). :o :D :D so relax silver and dont get all worked up.

Edited October 27, 2004 by ADR_rolla

[MR22ZZ]

I've kept out of this up until now because it has been talked about soooooo many time before. But this is a REAL problem, not an operator issue. I would direct you to several reviews of the car that clearly state 'inappropriate ratios in the six-speed gearbox are compounded by a notchy, occasionally reluctant shift action', so even the pros have trouble with this gearbox!!!!

But there have also been comments like 'the clutch is light but abrupt. When trying to row the Sportivo along at speed, there's the occasional thump and lurch on engagement' which seems to indicate that this is possibly a clutch related problem as shown and solved by those that have updated to a better clutch.

For any disbelievers, I offer the services of my pride and joy, for you to feel exactly what the sticky clutch is like to drive. Don't get me wrong I love my car as many here can attest to, but the clutch problem gives me the s**ts.

I'm currently in the process on taking this up with TOYOTA also and letters have been written awaiting reply. I wish I had taking this up with my old dealer in Adelaide as they have a good rep for dealing with these sort of issues and listen to the customer, not just disregard their input, but at the time I thought it was just that the clutch needed to be worn in a little, but 20K kms on and I still have problems, it's time to get help!!!!!!

EDIT: I refer you to review: Drive.com.au for the quotes.

Edited October 28, 2004 by Blue_Sportivo_VVTLi

[yowzer]

yeah i have never been able to get the car to shift properly to 2nd in high revs once since i got the car, talk about frustrating. I didnt want to give back my mates car after driving his trouble free gear box. :P

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You sure you want my car instead?? The shocks are giving me hell already.

[BenT]

hah well at least you have some lift fun, i can live with a bit or creaking and cranking from the shocks.