New AE86 Sprinter/Trueno

[MT]

stolen from rollaclub

[IAN20V]

i hope they dont bring it back....

the 86 is an iconic car that should not be modernised or resurected IMO

although it does look damn sexy

[Canyonero]

i hope they dont either!

I dont really know about the shape of it though..

[Leroy]

Actually i don't mind it... although i have read speculation of them leaving the bumpers in black plastic like the original (as shown in the pics). That would be horrible. Otherwise, this could be the car that replaces the celica... reinstating a RW car to the lineup.

[Dead]

You cannot improve on perfection...

...or can you?

[HIREVR]

looks to me like a cross between a integra and a celica

[SuperDave]

Further rumour is the engine will be a high revving 2L, 3s-ge beams maybe? And the chassis and drivetrain work might come from Subaru, but be rear wheel drive still.

The front bumper looks Lexus-ish while the rear looks 7th gen Celica-ish, neither is a bad thing but I hope there is an option to colour code the bumpers. Or better yet, bring back the two tone!

Edited November 23, 2007 by SuperDave

[CjRasmu]

It seems risky resurecting old favourites. It seems the new Type-R Honda has failed, but the new GTR has not. I hope Toyota can do it properly, with the Supra, Celica and whatever else they re-do.

[sportiyo]

lets hope they keep it light weight and affodable, and it could be my next car

i reckon it looks good besides the unpainted bumpers

[selyaT]

Why badge it after the AE86? Who cares what it's called just give us something close to affordable performance and we'll be happy.

Sure black plastic bumpers might be nostalgia for AE86 fans but for a regular consumer it's bloody ugly.

[SuperDave]

Why badge it after the AE86? Who cares what it's called just give us something close to affordable performance and we'll be happy.

Sure black plastic bumpers might be nostalgia for AE86 fans but for a regular consumer it's bloody ugly.

I think it would wear a Sprinter or Trueno badge.

The bumper look is a little lame, they need to do the bottom half of the doors black as well to fit in. Plus I liked two tone on the 80's cars, mainly since my first car was two tone

[ancullen]

stolen from rollaclub

And those photos were stolen from elsewhere. If you're going to use photos from elsewhere, it's probably a good idea to put the correct reference - otherwise you might get in a bit of trouble. The picture you used from my article was originally used in Japanese magazine, Best Car. The magazine also created a different design for a potential new Sprinter/Trueno, one that I feel looks a lot better. A website, 7tune, also did a design of their own. I feel theirs is far superior to the Best Car designs, but the tail end could use a bit of refinement. The rest of the car looks much more agressive than the Best Car proposals though.

If anyone's interested in reading the whole article, please visit www.rollaclub.com. The article is displayed on the home page.

Why badge it after the AE86? Who cares what it's called just give us something close to affordable performance and we'll be happy.

Sure black plastic bumpers might be nostalgia for AE86 fans but for a regular consumer it's bloody ugly.

I think it would wear a Sprinter or Trueno badge.

The bumper look is a little lame, they need to do the bottom half of the doors black as well to fit in. Plus I liked two tone on the 80's cars, mainly since my first car was two tone

I very much doubt it would be badged AE86. It would be in the same spirit as the RWD Levin/Sprinter/Trueno's that can be traced back to the KE11 Sprinter. And I agree that the black bumpers look ugly. Check out the RollaClub article to see more proposed designs.

Edited November 23, 2007 by ancullen

[Talez]

Further rumour is the engine will be a high revving 2L, 3s-ge beams maybe? And the chassis and drivetrain work might come from Subaru, but be rear wheel drive still.

The front bumper looks Lexus-ish while the rear looks 7th gen Celica-ish, neither is a bad thing but I hope there is an option to colour code the bumpers. Or better yet, bring back the two tone!

Everyone here is a bit behind the times. This was on autoblog in August 2007 with way more detail and full sized scans.

Basically this is a result of Toyota's "Committee to create interesting cars" and is going to be a resurrection of the small, light and cheap RWD concept.

The engine that they're planning on using is a 1.5L 2NZ-FE good for about 120hp. With an all-aluminum build it'll probably be a hell of a lot lighter than the iron block 4A-GE.

They are keeping the weight of the car down as much as possible and they intend for it to come in as close to 1 ton as possible while retaining most of the modern creature comforts.

Rumoured release date range between Christmas 2008 in Japan and mid 2010 for the rest of the world and the sticker price is to be below 1.5 million yen (that's approximately $14-17K).

And yes, I'll be grabbing one of the first ones that are sold in Australia.

[sportiyo]

Further rumour is the engine will be a high revving 2L, 3s-ge beams maybe? And the chassis and drivetrain work might come from Subaru, but be rear wheel drive still.

The front bumper looks Lexus-ish while the rear looks 7th gen Celica-ish, neither is a bad thing but I hope there is an option to colour code the bumpers. Or better yet, bring back the two tone!

Everyone here is a bit behind the times. This was on autoblog in August 2007 with way more detail and full sized scans.

Basically this is a result of Toyota's "Committee to create interesting cars" and is going to be a resurrection of the small, light and cheap RWD concept.

The engine that they're planning on using is a 1.5L 2NZ-FE good for about 120hp. With an all-aluminum build it'll probably be a hell of a lot lighter than the iron block 4A-GE.

They are keeping the weight of the car down as much as possible and they intend for it to come in as close to 1 ton as possible while retaining most of the modern creature comforts.

Rumoured release date range between Christmas 2008 in Japan and mid 2010 for the rest of the world and the sticker price is to be below 1.5 million yen (that's approximately $14-17K).

And yes, I'll be grabbing one of the first ones that are sold in Australia.

i thought it would have a subaru engine instead of toyota, any how 120hp is a bit underpowered these days unless they make it as light as ae86 but i doubt that

[ancullen]

Everyone here is a bit behind the times. This was on autoblog in August 2007 with way more detail and full sized scans.

Basically this is a result of Toyota's "Committee to create interesting cars" and is going to be a resurrection of the small, light and cheap RWD concept.

The engine that they're planning on using is a 1.5L 2NZ-FE good for about 120hp. With an all-aluminum build it'll probably be a hell of a lot lighter than the iron block 4A-GE.

They are keeping the weight of the car down as much as possible and they intend for it to come in as close to 1 ton as possible while retaining most of the modern creature comforts.

Rumoured release date range between Christmas 2008 in Japan and mid 2010 for the rest of the world and the sticker price is to be below 1.5 million yen (that's approximately $14-17K).

And yes, I'll be grabbing one of the first ones that are sold in Australia.

The assumption was made on a few website that the 1.5L 1NZ-FE would be used. HOWEVER, if Toyota are already planning on using a Subaru platform, with RWD transmission (AWD minus some bits) then it would seem logical that they use the EJ15 as it's available ready to go. The price of 1.5 million yen would be for a basic model. It would seem HIGHLY improbable that Toyota would release an AE86 successor but only have it as a car weighing 1,100kg (if they get it down that much) and with only 120hp (not that they'll bother to tune the 1NZ-FE for that much).

[selyaT]

It would have to have at least 100kW to be more than just a niche market vehicle. If it had a relatively weak power figure, even granted the RWD lightweight platform, Australians would not buy, except for the 0.001% of the population who understand the spirit of Hachi Roku. To be financially viable in Australia, it would need to be able to pinch a few customers from other performance models like Golf, WRX etc, even though these are in a higher price bracket. With such a small engine as the 1NZ, it will not be viewed as a performance car, and will end up in the driveways of hairdressers and secretaries, much like the late Celica.

[selyaT]

And yes, I'll be grabbing one of the first ones that are sold in Australia.

Assuming they make it to Australia... See above

[Talez]

The assumption was made on a few website that the 1.5L 1NZ-FE would be used. HOWEVER, if Toyota are already planning on using a Subaru platform, with RWD transmission (AWD minus some bits) then it would seem logical that they use the EJ15 as it's available ready to go. The price of 1.5 million yen would be for a basic model. It would seem HIGHLY improbable that Toyota would release an AE86 successor but only have it as a car weighing 1,100kg (if they get it down that much) and with only 120hp (not that they'll bother to tune the 1NZ-FE for that much).

The EJ15 is a much neglected engine in Subaru's lineup. It's a SOHC with poor economy and power compared to the 2NZ-FE. The EL15 would be far more likely but that develops even less power (110ps vs 120ps) than the 2NZ-FE. The car's target weight has already been stated as under 1 ton and this is quite achievable for a 3-door coupe style with modern materials.

Keep in mind the AE86 only developed 130ps in the first version of the 4A-GE and 120ps in the second generation so a 120ps 2NZ-FE isn't out of the question when we're looking at the same sorts of weight. This isn't supposed to be a sports car to take on your WRX. It's to attract the kids with a sort of kit car. The 2NZ-FE is incredibly compact so you're going to be looking at a lot of room under the bonnet with bolt on turbos and what not and I wouldn't be suprised if they generally started taking advantage of the Scion style business model where they sell a premium line of performance parts and the base car is incredibly cheap.

It would have to have at least 100kW to be more than just a niche market vehicle. If it had a relatively weak power figure, even granted the RWD lightweight platform, Australians would not buy, except for the 0.001% of the population who understand the spirit of Hachi Roku. To be financially viable in Australia, it would need to be able to pinch a few customers from other performance models like Golf, WRX etc, even though these are in a higher price bracket. With such a small engine as the 1NZ, it will not be viewed as a performance car, and will end up in the driveways of hairdressers and secretaries, much like the late Celica.

The car is only going to weight 1000kg or less. If they were to sell it over here they'd have to drive home the fact that it's a rear wheel drive for under 20 grand. That alone is going to get you a whole heap of tofu delivery boy wannabes. It would also be an incredible car to push the TRD performance parts branding which would be incredibly profitable. Keep in mind that TRD at the moment is generally limiting itself to the rich, middle aged boomers who can afford a Aurion Sportivo.

[sinan]

dont like it. hasnt got the hachi roku look. they should just leave in with the legendary shape and not have a crack at redisigning it.

Edited November 24, 2007 by sinan

[selyaT]

The assumption was made on a few website that the 1.5L 1NZ-FE would be used. HOWEVER, if Toyota are already planning on using a Subaru platform, with RWD transmission (AWD minus some bits) then it would seem logical that they use the EJ15 as it's available ready to go. The price of 1.5 million yen would be for a basic model. It would seem HIGHLY improbable that Toyota would release an AE86 successor but only have it as a car weighing 1,100kg (if they get it down that much) and with only 120hp (not that they'll bother to tune the 1NZ-FE for that much).

The EJ15 is a much neglected engine in Subaru's lineup. It's a SOHC with poor economy and power compared to the 2NZ-FE. The EL15 would be far more likely but that develops even less power (110ps vs 120ps) than the 2NZ-FE. The car's target weight has already been stated as under 1 ton and this is quite achievable for a 3-door coupe style with modern materials.

Keep in mind the AE86 only developed 130ps in the first version of the 4A-GE and 120ps in the second generation so a 120ps 2NZ-FE isn't out of the question when we're looking at the same sorts of weight. This isn't supposed to be a sports car to take on your WRX. It's to attract the kids with a sort of kit car. The 2NZ-FE is incredibly compact so you're going to be looking at a lot of room under the bonnet with bolt on turbos and what not and I wouldn't be suprised if they generally started taking advantage of the Scion style business model where they sell a premium line of performance parts and the base car is incredibly cheap.

It would have to have at least 100kW to be more than just a niche market vehicle. If it had a relatively weak power figure, even granted the RWD lightweight platform, Australians would not buy, except for the 0.001% of the population who understand the spirit of Hachi Roku. To be financially viable in Australia, it would need to be able to pinch a few customers from other performance models like Golf, WRX etc, even though these are in a higher price bracket. With such a small engine as the 1NZ, it will not be viewed as a performance car, and will end up in the driveways of hairdressers and secretaries, much like the late Celica.

The car is only going to weight 1000kg or less. If they were to sell it over here they'd have to drive home the fact that it's a rear wheel drive for under 20 grand. That alone is going to get you a whole heap of tofu delivery boy wannabes. It would also be an incredible car to push the TRD performance parts branding which would be incredibly profitable. Keep in mind that TRD at the moment is generally limiting itself to the rich, middle aged boomers who can afford a Aurion Sportivo.

All your points are valid and well argued. However I think if it isn't going to pinch any potential WRX customers then it's no use. If a young bloke had 20 grand and was looking for bang for buck do you think he would purchase a 120ps RWD two door or a second hand WRX? The only thing stopping him would be the P-plate turbo restrictions but that disappears when they get a bit older anyway. There's a conflict of interest with Subaru here, if they were to put a nice 130kW engine into this thing and badge it a Toyota then they would lose WRX customers left right and centre, and Toyota would get the kudos for a nice sales increase. Therefore Subaru has no incentive to make this thing powerful which is a shame. Though I have seen S/C kits for the 1NZ.

Further, I understand the attractiveness of a lightweight, RWD handling monster, but when a FWD Corolla Sportivo screams past at 8000RPM, your RWD won't mean sh!t.

Let's have a brainstorm of what fast bits TRD might be able to offer if this thing comes out with the 1.5L engine... Any suggestions? Sporty suspension, CAI etc etc...

Edited November 24, 2007 by Tayles

[ancullen]

The EJ15 is a much neglected engine in Subaru's lineup. It's a SOHC with poor economy and power compared to the 2NZ-FE. The EL15 would be far more likely but that develops even less power (110ps vs 120ps) than the 2NZ-FE. The car's target weight has already been stated as under 1 ton and this is quite achievable for a 3-door coupe style with modern materials.

Keep in mind the AE86 only developed 130ps in the first version of the 4A-GE and 120ps in the second generation so a 120ps 2NZ-FE isn't out of the question when we're looking at the same sorts of weight. This isn't supposed to be a sports car to take on your WRX. It's to attract the kids with a sort of kit car. The 2NZ-FE is incredibly compact so you're going to be looking at a lot of room under the bonnet with bolt on turbos and what not and I wouldn't be suprised if they generally started taking advantage of the Scion style business model where they sell a premium line of performance parts and the base car is incredibly cheap.

A new Sprinter will NOT come in at under 1,000kg. Yes it could be done using modern materials, even on a bigger chassis like that of the Impreza, but lightweight materials are expensive. This will either be under 1,000kg and over $35,000 (for a basic model), or over 1,100kg and under $25,000 for a basic model. The basic model WILL come with a 1.5L engine, and I would presume it would have a 2.0L engine for a performance version. IF we get the new Sprinter here (assuming it gets built), I would put a substantial bet on it costing over $30,000 for a basic model, but that basic model would come with a 1.8 or 2.0L engine. The 1.5L engine will be the basic Japanese model - remember they get 1.4L engines in their Auris/Corolla while we only get the 1.8L (thank goodness).

I agree that the EL15 motor is more likely than the EJ15, as the EL15 is what Subaru are rumoured to be using for their RWD sportscar their developing along side the new Sprinter. The EL15 has DOHC, which even if it's not providing more power, is more 'sporty' sounding (for advertising purposes) than only SOHC.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota do end up using their own engines for the Sprinter and leaving Subaru to use boxers. The boxer layout is too iconic for Subaru. Therefore any magazine reviews of the vehicle are going to mention Subaru drivetrain, which I'm sure wouldn't settle too well with Toyota. The 1NZ-FE would make sense as a basic motor for the Sprinter, moving up to the ZR-series of engines for the more sporting models. My bet is on a 3ZR-FAE powered version as the top of the line for Toyota as it has 158hp (118kW) and 196Nm, which should do if they can bring the weight in at under 1,200kg. Assuming the same percentage power and torque increase as the TRD Aurion has vs. the standard Aurion (240kW & 400Nm vs. 200kW & 336Nm), then a TRD Sprinter could potentially have 142kW and 234Nm. Of course, the Aurion only has a fairly mild tune, so it wouldn't be at all surprising if these figures were more like 150kW and 250Nm. In a 1,200kg car that's going to provide quite good performance. Of course, it could also end up costing around $50,000. :(

It would have to have at least 100kW to be more than just a niche market vehicle. If it had a relatively weak power figure, even granted the RWD lightweight platform, Australians would not buy, except for the 0.001% of the population who understand the spirit of Hachi Roku. To be financially viable in Australia, it would need to be able to pinch a few customers from other performance models like Golf, WRX etc, even though these are in a higher price bracket. With such a small engine as the 1NZ, it will not be viewed as a performance car, and will end up in the driveways of hairdressers and secretaries, much like the late Celica.

1.5L engine will be for Japan (and Europe). Markets like Australia and the US would be more likely to have a 1.8L engine as the minimum. Of course, it will cost close to $30,000 once it gets here. Probably more like $35,000. It will be marketed as a sports car after all, and will probably be intended to fill the gap left by the Celica.

[SuperDave]

A competitor, if you ignore brand snobbing, is the next Tiburon is rumoured to be rear wheel drive also. But they will have to do something about the shear weight of the thing. The current model weighs like 1700kg

If Toyota can work a deal to build the Aus spec Sprinter, in say Thailand, then the price would be a lot cheaper then sourcing them from Japan. And before anyone mentions it there is nothing wrong with the quality of cars made in Thailand. Could go with South Afrika too :P

Ancullen presents a well thought out argument. But as long as Toyota leave plenty of space in the engine bay it would be a tuners delight.