Crunching Gears

[BlackRolla]

I was driving today taking off from red light up to around 6000-7000rpm when I changed to 2nd. I now know what u guys mean when you have the clutch fully depressed and still the gears go crunch. Today was the first time it happened to me when I have the clutch fully down. Normally when I try to quick shift it crunches or the gear locks up. This time I was only taking my time and wasn't trying to race anyone. And it still crunched! I was like WTF!!! :o The clutch was all the way down. I didn't even released it yet. It's just F%$#ED UP! I'M fed up with this sh!t.

To be honest guys, I don't know if the car is worth keeping if this problem keeps going. For the time, money and effort put into all the issues and problems with the Stivos, I am considering in giving it up as well. When I first got this car I was loving it even though there were problems with it coz I thought it would be fixed under warranty. Now I'm just so tired of this whole thing that I will be looking into another car soon. I'm not sure what it will be as I am really tight financially. If I can afford it I'll be getting the Accord Euro :D , or who knows might even keep the Stivo if nothing comes my way financially.

Sorry to say that guys but for all the other Stivos without the gear or rattle problems, Hope you NEVER EVER EVER EVER have to experience what we do and what we have to go through to resolve this problem. <_<

I will still be chasing this up with Toyota while I've still got the car. If it doesn't look like there will be a solution then I will have decide to dump her. :(

[ZEEROLLA]

I was driving today taking off from red light up to around 6000-7000rpm when I changed to 2nd. I now know what u guys mean when you have the clutch fully depressed and still the gears go crunch. Today was the first time it happened to me when I have the clutch fully down. Normally when I try to quick shift it crunches or the gear locks up. This time I was only taking my time and wasn't trying to race anyone. And it still crunched! I was like WTF!!!  :o  The clutch was all the way down. I didn't even released it yet. It's just F%$#ED UP! I'M fed up with this sh!t. 

To be honest guys, I don't know if the car is worth keeping if this problem keeps going. For the time, money and effort put into all the issues and problems with the Stivos, I am considering in giving it up as well. When I first got this car I was loving it even though there were problems with it coz I thought it would be fixed under warranty. Now I'm just so tired of this whole thing that I will be looking into another car soon. I'm not sure what it will be as I am really tight financially. If I can afford it I'll be getting the Accord Euro  :D , or who knows might even keep the Stivo if nothing comes my way financially.

Sorry to say that guys but for all the other Stivos without the gear or rattle problems, Hope you NEVER EVER EVER EVER have to experience what we do and what we have to go through to resolve this problem. <_<

I will still be chasing this up with Toyota while I've still got the car. If it doesn't look like there will be a solution then I will have decide to dump her.  :(

←

I had that happen to me twice, not racing anyone just slowly shifting. Add another 3 times when racing someone, and that is 2nd gear only. 3rd gear hmm, i think i crunched 3-4 times as well. So there you go if my gearbox breaksdown it will be 2nd or 3rd gear. Should cost me around $2000 to fix. An MY97 WRX will cost $1600 to fix 2nd gear.

Option 1:

You should start saving for that day when Toyota refuses to cover our gearboxes.

Option 2:

You can invest in a better clutch to stop the problem and our gearboxes might last for years to come.

Option 3:

Sell/trade in the car for a terrible return. A 1 year old Stivo will get between $23-$26K.

I know how you feel mate and its all up to you. I think if this is the only problem and you love the rest of the car, get it fixed and keep the car because its just a great value package.

Zee

Edited November 19, 2004 by ZEEROLLA

[lucio_libre]

As a group we have to do something about this!!!!!! I still believe we should organise a meeting with Mr Toyota Australia......i think its the only way.

[lucio_libre]

Toyota knows something is wrong thats why it's still not on their website.........these issues they will try to ignore, but they cant if we DO something about it, the loner we leave it the worse it will be.

[BlackRolla]

Yeah, I'd love to meet Mr Toyota Australia. Punch him in da face!

How are we gonna get to meet one of these big shots from Toyota?

The last I've heard is that they know it is a problem and if enough cars are reported then they will look into developing a fix. I'm not sure where this is heading at the moment. That was almost a month ago. I'm not sure if it's heading in a positive direction and if anything will be done. I will be raising it up again when I go for 20K service which shouldn't be too long.

I don't know about u guys but aren't u tired yet? I'm just sick of all these hassles. I really don;t have the time to be taking this and other matters to them time and time again.

[ZEEROLLA]

How about we all threaten to sell our Stivos on the same day and let the press know!!!

I am thinking of sending one last email to Toyota Australia asking them about this issue and i will let them know this will be the LAST letter/attempt and i am utterly disappointed with the outcome. I will also let them know i am going to spend money on replacing the clutch and flywheel which WILL fix the problem. I will offer them an opportunity to cop half the cost but if they refuse i will not argue.

Maybe that's why there are so few Celica owners in Japan!!

I will keep the car until i see a suitable replacement and will not jump into buying another car now. This might be my last hi-performance car (big claim) as i really want a Hybrid for my next car:P

[lucio_libre]

Mate, the dealer where you get the car serviced wont give a rats ****, we need to talk to one of the head honchos.

[ZEEROLLA]

Mate, the dealer where you get the car serviced wont give a rats ****, we need to talk to one of the head honchos.

←

Oh mate, you better believe i've tried and so did many of us with the problem just ask Xoom. He is the one that went head on with the honchos. What we get is there are not enough people reporting to dealerships which i have been doing every service since my 1000km service. So Blackrolla, i know what you mean by TIRED! It is bloody Tedious!

[BlackRolla]

That's true. I don't think Toyota gives a sh!t what we do with our cars.

If we gonna change the clutch and flywheel which will fix the problem then we should ask Toyota to pay for it. I don't think we should have to pay a cent if we have to go out of our way to get it fixed ourselves. They should own up to the responsibilty and compensate for our fix. I don;t know why they can't just come up with a new clutch and flywheel like the TRD or TOM's and use that as a fix. They can just replicate something like it, either use the same materials or design or whwever it takes. If they know that there is something out there that resolves the problem then why can't they impliment that.

It's a good idea to all sell our cars on the same day and let Today Tonight or ACA know but who will be up for it?

[ZEEROLLA]

That's true. I don't think Toyota gives a sh!t what we do with our cars.

If we gonna change the clutch and flywheel which will fix the problem then we should ask Toyota to pay for it. I don't think we should have to pay a cent if we have to go out of our way to get it fixed ourselves. They should own up to the responsibilty and compensate for our fix. I don;t know why they can't just come up with a new clutch and flywheel like the TRD or TOM's and use that as a fix. They can just replicate something like it, either use the same materials or design or whwever it takes. If they know that there is something out there that resolves the problem then why can't they impliment that.

It's a good idea to all sell our cars on the same day and let Today Tonight or ACA know but who will be up for it?

←

The thing is they won't take our word for it. Besides they can always say the clutch/gearbox performs okay under normal driving conditions. Well we can argue that the gear crunches but can we replicate it? It never ends and will go on and on...

[richi]

hi, wanted to ask everyone, how hard do you drive your cars? how often are u in lift?

im asking because, ive never experienced a crunch before, the car always slots nicely into gear (expect down shifting, sometimes gets stuck and needs to go into neutral b4 hand, but no crunch)

ive clocked 19,000km's, and reading all these threads about crunching gears makes me thankful that i havent had it happen. today on the way home i did 1->2->3 changing at 8000rpm with no dramas, altho the gas was not depressed max at all times.

i do drive my car fast, day to day changes occur at 4500-5500, i hardly rev up and launch monster hard at the lights, but prefer to get the car moving along abit before giving it gas to rev up to lift on long straights or out of corners, pulling away in 2nd/3rd.

im wondering if driving the car hard, brings out/worsens the gear problem. has anyone who drives there car abit more timidly experienced the crunching problem?

Edited November 19, 2004 by richi

[ZEEROLLA]

hi, wanted to ask everyone, how hard do you drive your cars? how often are u in lift?

im asking because, ive never experienced a crunch before, the car always slots nicely into gear (expect down shifting, sometimes gets stuck and needs to go into neutral b4 hand, but no crunch)

ive clocked 19,000km's, and reading all these threads about crunching gears makes me thankful that i havent had it happen. today on the way home i did 1->2->3 changing at 8000rpm with no dramas, altho the gas was not depressed max at all times.

i do drive my car fast, day to day changes occur at 4500-5500, i hardly rev up and launch monster hard at the lights, but prefer to get the car moving along abit before giving it gas to rev up to lift on long straights or out of corners, pulling away in 2nd/3rd.

im wondering if driving the car hard, brings out/worsens the gear problem. has anyone who drives there car abit more timidly experienced the crunching problem?

←

Richi, the problem occured from Day 1 when i was a LIFT virgin. I have found that punishing the car makes the problem less noticeable.

Edited November 19, 2004 by ZEEROLLA

[MR22ZZ]

Richi I drive my car exactly as you describe, I only get 'spirited' with it every so often and get frustrated every time, so discourages me from doing it more... However under 'normal' driving conditions I have no dramas, only when I try and shift at higher RPM (>6K), and that is our biggest obsticle in this arguement, Toyota believes that because there are no problems in normal driving condition then there are no poblems. However Totota also believes that the engine is strong and can take repeated punishment in LIFT.... Our problem lies when you combine the 2 and try to use the engine to it's full potential but the gearbox will not allow you to do this.... Anyways, I'm with Zee, it's too much of a loss to sell the car now, plus it is still a great car to drive, it's just this one problem that bugs me.... Come On Mr Toyota, gimmie a clutch that works....... :( :(

Edited November 19, 2004 by Blue_Sportivo_VVTLi

[rollagrl]

yep, im with u blue

[CHA54]

if it doesn't crunch all the time, it's not likely to be a synchro problem.

If you get the occasional sticking/crunch of gears you may find that the clutch disc is not sliding properly on the input shaft and not disengaging from the flywheel properly during the shift.

Good luck trying to find a Toyota dealer with a tech that can diagnose it properly though.

[BlackRolla]

I hear you guys and I would be keeping the car if I haven't gone through so much problems with the car. Some of us here have small problems and some have major problems but it seems like I have all the problems put to together. That is the reason why I'm deciding to give it up. These are the issues that I've been having:

1. vibrations with gear selector cables. Still hear rattles when accelerating.

2. squealing brakes when reversing and forward at slow speeds

3. rattles in the dash. (Feel like it will fall apart. Will get worst over time. toyota may say it is because it is a few years old)

4. rattles on the passenger door.

5. Window feels like it is loose. When you close the door u hear it rattle.

6. Power window on passenger side somtimes fail.

7. Front left suspension is still giving me probs with slight knocking noises even though it has been replaced.

8. scraping noise when gearing down or accelerating. Disappears when clutch is depressed.

9. Whining or high pitch noise when gearing down especially in 2nd and 1st gear.

10. Cigarette lighter doesn;t work. (Just noticed a week ago).

11. Crunching gears and sticky gear problem

These are only the problems that I STILL have that are yet to be fixed. There have been other issues as well.

Basically I've got every problem listed hear on this forum.

I've also been to Toyota at least 25 times over the last year that I've had the car and they take for ever to fix a simple problem. even though they say it has been fixed, it hasn't. I'm really fed up. If I only had the gear crunch problem then it would still be OK to keep the car and follow up on a resolution. I feel this car will get worst over time. That is only my opinion and what I've experienced. I don;t want to influence any one in changing cars as well. But I will have to say that the others that changed their cars made me wanna do so as well. Sorry to sound so negative guys but that's the way I feel.

[ZEEROLLA]

if it doesn't crunch all the time, it's not likely to be a synchro problem.

If you get the occasional sticking/crunch of gears you may find that the clutch disc is not sliding properly on the input shaft and not disengaging from the flywheel properly during the shift.

Good luck trying to find a Toyota dealer with a tech that can diagnose it properly though.

←

That is what's going on with the Stivos and it can cause either crunching, sticking, rattling, vibrations or a combination. Rollamods can you please advise Toyota of your expert advise and coax them to fix it :P

These people have no idea what is going on initially and when we try to tell them its the clutch/flywheel and people that changed the clutch/flywheel fixed it they say they doubt it. But only recently, Toyota acknowledged its a clutch fault but still stubbornly refuses to offer a fix.

[ZEEROLLA]

I hear you guys and I would be keeping the car if I haven't gone through so much problems with the car. Some of us here have small problems and some have major problems but it seems like I have all the problems put to together. That is the reason why I'm deciding to give it up. These are the issues that I've been having:

1. vibrations with gear selector cables. Still hear rattles when accelerating.

2. squealing brakes when reversing and forward at slow speeds

3. rattles in the dash. (Feel like it will fall apart. Will get worst over time. toyota may say it is because it is a few years old)

4. rattles on the passenger door.

5. Window feels like it is loose. When you close the door u hear it rattle.

6. Power window on passenger side somtimes fail.

7. Front left suspension is still giving me probs with slight knocking noises even though it has been replaced.

8. scraping noise when gearing down or accelerating. Disappears when clutch is depressed.

9. Whining or high pitch noise when gearing down especially in 2nd and 1st gear.

10. Cigarette lighter doesn;t work. (Just noticed a week ago).

11. Crunching gears and sticky gear problem

These are only the problems that I STILL have that are yet to be fixed. There have been other issues as well.

Basically I've got every problem listed hear on this forum.

I've also been to Toyota at least 25 times over the last year that I've had the car and they take for ever to fix a simple problem. even though they say it has been fixed, it hasn't. I'm really fed up. If I only had the gear crunch problem then it would still be OK to keep the car and follow up on a resolution. I feel this car will get worst over time. That is only my opinion and what I've experienced. I don;t want to influence any one in changing cars as well. But I will have to say that the others that changed their cars made me wanna do so as well. Sorry to sound so negative guys but that's the way I feel.

←

I have most of your "problems" mate but you can choose to look at them differently. Most are just some minor quality lapse in my opinion. Number 7 is also a problem for most of us. Problems 8,9 ,and 11 are gearbox and clutch related. Whining in the gearbox could be the diff's sound, scraping when downchanging is most probably clutch related.

I currently have slight vibrations which i can feel through the shifter when downshifting to 2nd gear. It appears when clutch is fully depressed. This can also be either gearbox or clutch related. But i suspect the clutch contributes to a lot of the issues.

[CHA54]

if it doesn't crunch all the time, it's not likely to be a synchro problem.

If you get the occasional sticking/crunch of gears you may find that the clutch disc is not sliding properly on the input shaft and not disengaging from the flywheel properly during the shift.

Good luck trying to find a Toyota dealer with a tech that can diagnose it properly though.

←

That is what's going on with the Stivos and it can cause either crunching, sticking, rattling, vibrations or a combination. Rollamods can you please advise Toyota of your expert advise and coax them to fix it :P

These people have no idea what is going on initially and when we try to tell them its the clutch/flywheel and people that changed the clutch/flywheel fixed it they say they doubt it. But only recently, Toyota acknowledged its a clutch fault but still stubbornly refuses to offer a fix.

←

Getting toyota to officially admit there's a clutch problem would get the clutches swapped in your car's at no cost, but that's highly unlikely.

If toyota wont fix it, you can fix it yourself in a day with some basic hand tools and $200 ;)

A Daikin/PRB/etc clutch kit costs $200 for the pressure plate, clutch disc and throwout bearing (toyota price is $700), then most of a day for a DIY'er to remove the box and replace the clutch at home... I've gotta pull the LSD box off my GF's AE111 20V in the near future to lubricate the input shaft for the clutch, but I've been putting it off for about 3 months now as there's nothing I hate more than doing FWD box swaps at home.

At least the ZZE rolla's have heaps of space to get the boxes out, that would make life a lot easier in comparison to the AE chassis.

Here's a mate's 4agze sedan I helped remove the box from a week ago to fix a broken clutch, the spring broke out of the disc and jammed the pressure plate so the clutch could not be disengaged.... Stupid puck clutches, I'll never bother with one of those again.

[Vinn27]

I was driving today taking off from red light up to around 6000-7000rpm when I changed to 2nd. I now know what u guys mean when you have the clutch fully depressed and still the gears go crunch. Today was the first time it happened to me when I have the clutch fully down. Normally when I try to quick shift it crunches or the gear locks up. This time I was only taking my time and wasn't trying to race anyone. And it still crunched! I was like WTF!!!  :o  The clutch was all the way down. I didn't even released it yet. It's just F%$#ED UP! I'M fed up with this sh!t. 

To be honest guys, I don't know if the car is worth keeping if this problem keeps going. For the time, money and effort put into all the issues and problems with the Stivos, I am considering in giving it up as well. When I first got this car I was loving it even though there were problems with it coz I thought it would be fixed under warranty. Now I'm just so tired of this whole thing that I will be looking into another car soon. I'm not sure what it will be as I am really tight financially. If I can afford it I'll be getting the Accord Euro  :D , or who knows might even keep the Stivo if nothing comes my way financially.

Sorry to say that guys but for all the other Stivos without the gear or rattle problems, Hope you NEVER EVER EVER EVER have to experience what we do and what we have to go through to resolve this problem. <_<

I will still be chasing this up with Toyota while I've still got the car. If it doesn't look like there will be a solution then I will have decide to dump her.  :(

←

[Vinn27]

Hey BlackRolla, agree with u on the crunching gear issue. lve had my sportivo only a short time and during my first service l mentioned to the dealer that the gears were a bit tight and l'd crunched a few changes. l did blame myself because l havent got used to the tight gates etc. And reverse gear is absolutely a pain, especially for the wife. If we need Toyota to do something l'm on ur side. l will read this web site with interest and give more comment. bfn Vinn27

[eddy_torrezz]

yes i agree somthing needs to be done i got new lever and cables installed last week and for a day or 2 it was fantastic but i was still tight changing at high rpms anyway i though id wait till after the weekend and see if it needed to be worn in anyway...

now its just as bad as it was before hand except its getting worse evrytime i drive it now plus its really tight in low revs aswell. it just doesnt feel right since i got it back im ringing my dealership tomorrow and complaining about it AGAIN...

they told me if its stuffed up again they would need it for a few weeks to remove the gearbox and so on.

im so not looking forward to not having it for a few weeks plus i bet at the end of the day ill get it back and it still wont be fixed. anyway ill let yall know what happens when i give em a serve tomorrow.

[xoom]

Hi Guys,

Vent your concerns to toyota in an email as well as by phone so then there is something on record.

please see this post on whom to contact

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/inde...?showtopic=1402

[dakota]

Please believe me..I'm not stirrin..but I've been in the trade, and m guessing a full gearbox rebuild (ONLY back to where you were, NOT any better) in a Dealer using Toyota original parts could be about $7500.00 plus.

Can anyone check to see what the diff is between a std IZZ-FE clutch is and a 2ZZ-FE clutch is ??

You should be especially interested in diameter, spring stiffness, and friction type...

Everything should be a minimum of 40% plus , if it's the same, or similar, you've may have a case for having a product not suitable for its sold intention...

Good luck ....

[CHA54]

a brand new gearbox is only about $3K, a full rebuild would cost more due to the labour involved.

I'll check the EPC later to get the part numbers for the clutch plate and pressure plate for the two motors.

Edited November 21, 2004 by rollamods