"People who type in a hybrid text messaging format."

[Dead]

'who make hole lines like dis cos dey cant be bovered 2 typ gd like cos its gr8 kk haha stfu if u dont like da way i spk get fked yeah that turboz is sick huh how much does 1 cost cos i want for ma car too hehe'

Fragment, fragment. An ecstasy of painful reading.

It actually does hurt to read stuff like that.

[SILVABULLIT]

I voted for the 2nd option cause I can't stand it!!!! You go to school for 12 years to learn how to spell, read and write so for goodness sake put it to good use.......

[qkslvr]

I voted for the 2nd option cause I can't stand it!!!! You go to school for 12 years to learn how to spell, read and write so for goodness sake put it to good use.......

I think that's the problem S.B. what exactly they're teaching in schools these days is questionable. The teachers spend most of their time just keeping the kids under control that nothing gets taught. Australia is one of the few countries where a kid can learn nothing all year, get assessed, fail and still progress to the next year. you effectively have kids moving to high school with the reading and writing capacity of a 4th grader. It's shocking.

I don't mean to take a stab at the younger members of this forum but for ***'s sake! please learn the difference between "they're" and "there" - Use it correctly! It drives me nuts.

Edited March 25, 2008 by qkslvr

[selyaT]

I voted for the 2nd option cause I can't stand it!!!! You go to school for 12 years to learn how to spell, read and write so for goodness sake put it to good use.......

I think that's the problem S.B. what exactly they're teaching in schools these days is questionable. The teachers spend most of their time just keeping the kids under control that nothing gets taught. Australia is one of the few countries where a kid can learn nothing all year, get assessed, fail and still progress to the next year. you effectively have kids moving to high school with the reading and writing capacity of a 4th grader. It's shocking.

I don't mean to take a stab at the younger members of this forum but for ***'s sake! please learn the difference between "they're" and "there" - Use it correctly! It drives me nuts.

University entrance scores for teaching and nursing are the lowest...

[qkslvr]

That's because they are not in high demand. At the end of the day money talks. Teaching and nursing jobs aren't exactly high paying by today's standards.

[JJCRU23R]

while i was a student teacher at a pretty average high school in the western suburbs, there were HEAPS of kids in years 8, 9 and 10 that had really bad handwriting, grammar, spelling.. everything! ive been told by experienced teachers that "it is no longer the high school teachers responsibility to focus teaching proper handwriting! that was supposed to be the primary teachers job! and if they havent gotten it by high school they arent ever going to get it!" - i guess thats just the reality of things now. i kinda agree with that because we teachers have heaps of things to get through besides dealing with student behaviour, and we shouldnt have to fix up the mess that the primary school teachers should have dealt with much earlier on!

part of this can come down to the fact that they may have grown up using a keyboard to write up assignments etc, therefore the only time they actually practice hand writing is during class! dont know about you, but im 27 now... and i still practice pen techniques to make sure my running writing is up to scratch.

outside of class assignments, all students have got in terms of writing anything down is in the form of mobile txt language as well as email/bebo/chat language, neither of which encourages proper spelling.

the fallout of using a keyboard all the time = the crap spelling, crap grammar, crap handwriting. and on top of that, they are oblivious to the fact that not everyone writes that way and accepts that people dont like to read things in those styles!

[Leroy]

while i was a student teacher at a pretty average high school in the western suburbs, there were HEAPS of kids in years 8, 9 and 10 that had really bad handwriting, grammar, spelling.. everything! ive been told by experienced teachers that "it is no longer the high school teachers responsibility to focus teaching proper handwriting! that was supposed to be the primary teachers job! and if they havent gotten it by high school they arent ever going to get it!" - i guess thats just the reality of things now. i kinda agree with that because we teachers have heaps of things to get through besides dealing with student behaviour, and we shouldnt have to fix up the mess that the primary school teachers should have dealt with much earlier on!

part of this can come down to the fact that they may have grown up using a keyboard to write up assignments etc, therefore the only time they actually practice hand writing is during class! dont know about you, but im 27 now... and i still practice pen techniques to make sure my running writing is up to scratch.

outside of class assignments, all students have got in terms of writing anything down is in the form of mobile txt language as well as email/bebo/chat language, neither of which encourages proper spelling.

the fallout of using a keyboard all the time = the crap spelling, crap grammar, crap handwriting. and on top of that, they are oblivious to the fact that not everyone writes that way and accepts that people dont like to read things in those styles!

I agree to a very small extent about them being a keyboard generation... but shouldn't you, as a teacher, have some form of moral/personal obligation to bring their literacy levels up to scratch - regardless of who's fault it was?!?!? With that attitude you may as well stop teaching, because apparently they are all lost causes... I am almost of the same generation, being only 22 yrs of age, and I have no problem reading and pronouncing words with 3 or more syllables...

What I agree with more so is the point on attitude. For me that is what it comes down to. They apparently get so much cred from their mates, by speaking like that all the time, that it becomes a habit and they forget that English is even a language. What is more disturbing is the number of people that brush it off with replies like "stop using words like that, you know I'm not that smart", or "who gives a f**k if its wrong, most other people speak like that".

People make fun of me because I supposedly have an accent - but I've lived here all my life!!! Why should I be made a spectacle of because I refuse to drop my standards? It's not a matter of I simply don't like reading in 'that style' - it comes down to common courtesy. I am not your high school buddy, and I am not on your mobile phone! Please have a little respect...

This then of course leads us down the debate of manners in general. I stand behind a counter all day and repeatedly I hear "I'll HAVE one of those..." or "I need..." or "give us one". Well, will you now?? How do you suppose you are going to get one with that attitude? But try explaining that to any of them... again, this leads me to say that these principles should be instilled in schools - regardless of age group.

This is why I've been somewhat harping on this issue... maintaining acceptable social standards is an onus everybody holds. Just because this is an internet forum doesn't mean blind eyes should be turned...

Edited March 25, 2008 by Leroy

[mrs.sportivo]

its not the teachers fault if the student cant write properly; its the students for not listening. if you get students in highschool who have poor grammar - they are most likely the ones who DONT want to listen or try; and its not up to the teacher to keep the students up to their standard - its the student itself [ because then it would just lag the others behind =]

obviously if the student got a sht mark; its up to them whether they want to improve or not - and im sure JJCRU23R would help these students if they personally asked him for help. whats the point in forcing someone to study grammar when they dont want too? its just wasting the teachers time; which they could be using to help other students who actually want to learn

Edited March 25, 2008 by mrs.sportivo

[Leroy]

its not the teachers fault if the student cant write properly; its the students for not listening. if you get students in highschool who have poor grammar - they are most likely the ones who DONT want to listen or try; and its not up to the teacher to keep the students up to their standard - its the student itself [ because then it would just lag the others behind =]

True - these are values that should be instilled at home. It just saddens me that it has come to the point where children are not having standards placed upon them, and, as a result, teachers will not try to address that gap - simply because it will not be enforced in the home.

Go to somewhere like Singapore or Switzerland though, where parents spend 2/3 of the day at work and children spend just as much time in school - a child may get away with disrespect at home (rarely), but it is simply unheard of at school!! If you receive poor grades at school it is frowned upon - you are also a virtual outcast if you are not at least bilingual!!

Here...??? "Aw my Johnny's a good boy... if you try and make him do stuff he doesn't wanna do again, I'm gonna report you!"

Education and general standards need to be enforced - hence the arguments on this thread, amongst others...

[mrs.sportivo]

its not the teachers fault if the student cant write properly; its the students for not listening. if you get students in highschool who have poor grammar - they are most likely the ones who DONT want to listen or try; and its not up to the teacher to keep the students up to their standard - its the student itself [ because then it would just lag the others behind =]

True - these are values that should be instilled at home. It just saddens me that it has come to the point where children are not having standards placed upon them, and, as a result, teachers will not try to address that gap - simply because it will not be enforced in the home.

Go to somewhere like Singapore or Switzerland though, where parents spend 2/3 of the day at work and children spend just as much time in school - a child may get away with disrespect at home (rarely), but it is simply unheard of at school!! If you receive poor grades at school it is frowned upon - you are also a virtual outcast if you are not at least bilingual!!

Here...??? "Aw my Johnny's a good boy... if you try and make him do stuff he doesn't wanna do again, I'm gonna report you!"

Education and general standards need to be enforced - hence the arguments on this thread, amongst others...

dont know about others but practically everyone i know, KNOWS how important education is and do try. And well last years 2007 HSC was pretty good in sydney =\

"English

* English is the only mandatory subject in the HSC.

* The number of students taking the most demanding 2 unit course - English (Advanced) - continues to grow and now stands at 28 258 students, representing 44 per cent of all English enrolments and a 14 per cent increase on 2003."

thats just english LOL if u want to view the other subjects the links here http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/bos_s....html#hsc-facts

just because people type "lazy" over the net doesnt mean they write like that in tests.

[mrs.sportivo]

teachers will not try to address that gap - simply because it will not be enforced in the home.

When students recieve a test paper back; most likely the teacher will go through it, outlining and pointing how students can improve - you've also got the comments on these test papers. once again it is the student's job to go through it and find out how they could have earned extra marks

[SuperDave]

This then of course leads us down the debate of manners in general. I stand behind a counter all day and repeatedly I hear "I'll HAVE one of those..." or "I need..." or "give us one". Well, will you now?? How do you suppose you are going to get one with that attitude? But try explaining that to any of them... again, this leads me to say that these principles should be instilled in schools - regardless of age group.

Ah, the good ol' general public, gotta love them. It is always easy to pick the ones who have never worked in retail.

The other issue is with the standards the English teachers want. I got crap marks all through school for my english subjects. But once I hit University I was told to forget everything they taught me because it was all wrong and would you believe it I would get 75% or higher on my assignments. I think the main issue is that there is no actual right answer like maths or physics has, it's more of the opinion of the teacher.

[JJCRU23R]

True, high school teachers have a responsability to make sure that teaching literacy and numeracy is necessary in ALL subjects. And its true that I do consider it my moral/personal and professional obligation to teach the students to improve handwriting/grammar/spelling. In visual arts for example, you can look at angles in tessellations or you can ask students to measure the necessary amount of canvas needed to stretch over a wooden frame measuring 40x40cm to inject some maths into the lesson, or I can intentionally spell a few words incorrectly or use the wrong grammar within a paragraph and get the students to find those words, but those arent really considered "cures" for bad handwriting/grammar.

But the fact of the matter is that in high school, you only get 60-80 minutes with students who have 4-6 classes in any given day. So, its not likely that any 2 high school teachers are going to teach with the same style, so its not possible for all high school teachers to have the knowledge/ability to consistantly preach grammar/spelling/handwriting skills that the kids need. How am I supposed to effectively teach my subject area if I stop everything and tell the kids "today we are going to practice writing the letter e"?!

Compare that to primary teachers who get to stay with the same group of students ALL day. It also goes without saying that they get the first opportunity to teach these kids how to do all that stuff correctly! AND they would be able to consistantly monitor the students writing across all subjects coz they would know their students all that much more.

So yea.. I dont necessarily agree with what that teacher told me as a student teacher, but basic handwriting/grammar/spelling should be better dealt with before a kid enters high school.

[Dead]

True, high school teachers have a responsibility to make sure that teaching literacy and numeracy is necessary in ALL subjects. And its true that I do consider it my moral/personal and professional obligation to teach the students to improve handwriting/grammar/spelling. In visual arts for example, you can look at angles in tessellations or you can ask students to measure the necessary amount of canvas needed to stretch over a wooden frame measuring 40x40cm to inject some maths into the lesson, or I can intentionally spell a few words incorrectly or use the wrong grammar within a paragraph and get the students to find those words, but those arent really considered "cures" for bad handwriting/grammar.

But the fact of the matter is that in high school, you only get 60-80 minutes with students who have 4-6 classes in any given day. So, its not likely that any 2 high school teachers are going to teach with the same style, so its not possible for all high school teachers to have the knowledge/ability to consistently preach grammar/spelling/handwriting skills that the kids need. How am I supposed to effectively teach my subject area if I stop everything and tell the kids "today we are going to practice writing the letter e"?!

Compare that to primary teachers who get to stay with the same group of students ALL day. It also goes without saying that they get the first opportunity to teach these kids how to do all that stuff correctly! AND they would be able to consistently monitor the students writing across all subjects coz they would know their students all that much more.

So yea.. I don't necessarily agree with what that teacher told me as a student teacher, but basic handwriting/grammar/spelling should be better dealt with before a kid enters high school.

JJ, I'm sorry dude I was bored and felt like sh!t stirring lol

[Leroy]

Haha, and stirred you have... got me thinking...

How is it impossible for high school teachers to consistently preach grammar skills to children? Regardless of differing teaching styles, English is a language with very defined rules. Should not all teachers, regardless of faculty, have a decent grasp of these skills - before they are even allowed to teach??

C'mon - this is high school english. Its not exactly taxing for paid academics...

[JJCRU23R]

Im not getting paid to make posts in tocau so bugger it! lol! As long as you can read it!

When it comes to high school teaching, at my uni, you would have had to complete an undergraduate course in a relevent field (using myself as an example - Bachelor of Fine Arts) in order to enter postgraduate Bachelor of Teaching (secondary) - visual arts. now its called Master of Education for some unknown reason they changed it the year after I began the course. Sucks!! "Master" sounds much better than "bachelor".. essentially there is not much difference between the two courses.

Oh yea the other option is to do a double degree? 6 subjects instead of the standard fulltime load of 4 subjects per semester, completed after 4 years. In other words, 2 teaching subjects on top of 4 undergrad subjects every semester. Thats fine if you arent attached and dont need to worry bout working.

But yea.. provided youve completed your course (regardless of your actual grades for your subjects), any graduate could possibly enter postgraduate teaching.

Thats where it gets kind of interesting. 1 year or 1 1/2 years of full time study to become a teacher, where we were mainly taught how to deal with student behaviours, a big range of student abilities and designing units of work. But the thing you guys are talking about relates to 1 subject I had called "literacy for learning"... out of 12 subjects, we really only concentrated on the in's and out's of literacy in just 1 subject. Is that enough?

Edited March 25, 2008 by JJCRU23R

[Leroy]

But yea.. provided youve completed your course (regardless of your actual grades for your subjects), any GRADUATE could possibly enter postgraduate teaching.

That's my problem, dude. If you are a graduate... there should be no excuse for not possessing enough language skills to pass down to 15yr old children, regardless of your field of expertise.

[JJCRU23R]

fair enough. but dont blame me for crazy kids talking crazy language up in here lol!

[Leroy]

fair enough. but dont blame me for crazy kids talking crazy language up in here lol!

Haha - no, not at all! Far from it - I wish teachers were paid more. That said, I also wish the laws were different, allowing some more discipline in schools. I don't envy you, putting up with what you do day to day...

Anyhow, back to original issue? Should action be taken against 'lazy' language (txt and kewl speak) in Australia?

More specifically, should it be firmly discouraged from this forum?

[JJCRU23R]

i dont see it as a "problem".

just use it at the right place and time. you wouldnt talk to your mother the way you talk to your mates (if you respect your mother).

similar rules apply when it comes to regular english and kewl txt language in here.

[Leroy]

i dont see it as a "problem".

just use it at the right place and time. you wouldnt talk to your mother the way you talk to your mates (if you respect your mother).

similar rules apply when it comes to regular english and kewl txt language in here.

Yes, there is a time and a place for everything.

Again, for the 20th time, I stress that I am not referring to the odd bit here and there. I make reference to the example given at the top of page 2 of this thread. I make bigger reference to pages 5 and 6 of Keyboard Warriors. I make reference to all the complaints in "This forum has gone to the hole", amongst others.

I argue that this place, being a public place, has no room for such prevalent use of said kewl txt. Up until this point, so did you.

Don't go soft on me now, JJ...

[selyaT]

i dont see it as a "problem".

just use it at the right place and time. you wouldnt talk to your mother the way you talk to your mates (if you respect your mother).

similar rules apply when it comes to regular english and kewl txt language in here.

The right place and time to use kewl txt language is when minimising characters in a text message... saves you the extra 25c to make it a double message.

[mrs.sportivo]

LOL you guys are full sooking about the way people type on these forums'

harden the fk up LOL if you see it - dont read it then

i dont get why you have to write paragraphs after paragraphs - like i said im not gunna change LOL i doubt anyone else who types "lazy" will as well

sure it might be a problem in society but what can one man or shall i say one internet forum do LOL

Edited March 25, 2008 by mrs.sportivo

[Dead]

Oh thank the LORD. I was getting rather bored tonight.

Continue please everyone. I'll put some tea on.

[Leroy]

Oh thank the LORD. I was getting rather bored tonight.

Continue please everyone. I'll put some tea on.

2 sugars please...

Always happy to oblige, Rob. Where are your contributions -you started this poll. I demand to see more intelligent contributions from its creator...