OK Noobs, Lets get serious!

[CHA54]

Had the same clutch issue with my brother's VW. Clutch and pressure plate had been beefed up as far as clamp pressure was concerned with an organic disc but on the dyno with 10psi as soon as the boost built to a decent level clutch slipped big time. engine out and Direct clutches did a full puck clutch with 3000 pound clamp pressure. Car made 246hp at the wheels(with slipping clutch and 80% throttle) and is now going back to finish tune and add some more boost so it runs 20psi. Should push it to over 300hp at the wheels with a very nice big fat torque figure.

HP wise you reckon it'll make somewhere around 275 atw??

I'm not going to push a stock internals 1zz to 200kw atw. The most I'd be comfortable pushing it to is 170 on stock internals.

200 would need closer to 20psi and this turbo's out of it's efficiency range over 17.

The Asin pressure plate can develop a lot more clamp pressure than any exedy pressure plate for the 1zz, it will be fine for 170kw atw with the full face disc. It's been done on corolla's many times before.

[Guni]

So ................

Talking about pressure plates and clutch plates and stuff ........

What does organic mean for those terms above? Does it mean they are HMO ???? Totally natural?

How will too much power cause the clutch to slip?

[Mintos]

Very nice boys :D

Especially on a budget, the DIY workmanship has come out nicely. Bummer about the clutch... but its all good, clutches are like tyres as far as I am concerned, nothing but a consumable for the performance vehicle :P

Little dissappointed in the turbo choice though I have to say... do you intend on changing it for something a bit meatier down the track if/when you get a built motor? There still seems to be a bit of spare space.

Is that cooler custom painted or anodized? Just thought that I would mention that apparently testing with black painted front mounts (yes they do a good job of averting attention) has resulted in some pretty chronic heat soak depending what paint is used.

Also have you/are you guys gotten that awesome plenum flow tested? Don't know if it is an issue for the 1zz, but I know some certain aftermarket Nissan front facing plenums have issues with inconsistent flow to certain cylinders resulting in lean outs. I know you guys said the volume is equal...

Annnnnd, how come you are scrapping the Apexi? Not the most brilliant ECU, but I would say it does the job apart from the temp gauge. I have heard good things about the Vipec however, tons of features but perhaps overkill? Unless you plan on running some fully sik NAAAAAAWWWWS and launch control at ever set of lights :D

And don't be soft... pump the boost, spare 1zz short motor is chump change these days. I wanna see at least 1 bar out of this thing! Just take the ignition timing in dolly steps on the dyno... dose up the A/F ratio and there shouldn't be any probs, hopefully *cough*

Keep us updated Jason's!

[xoom]

And don't be soft... pump the boost, spare 1zz short motor is chump change these days. I wanna see at least 1 bar out of this thing! Just take the ignition timing in dolly steps on the dyno... dose up the A/F ratio and there shouldn't be any probs, hopefully *cough*

Keep us updated Jason's!

LOL ....... hows the skywhine Kai ?

[CHA54]

Little dissappointed in the turbo choice though I have to say... do you intend on changing it for something a bit meatier down the track if/when you get a built motor? There still seems to be a bit of spare space.

The turbo is perfect for the 1.8 with my manifold, instant boost that doesn't taper off at all from 2000rpm to redline ;-)

No plans for a built motor at this stage as 1zz long motors are only $600-700, we already have a spare which was used for the manifold fabrication etc.

Is that cooler custom painted or anodized?

Stock paint coating on the cooler from FPV. Heatsoak hasn't been a problem in stop-start traffic in the recent 30+ degree days in Brisbane. Datalogs show the intake temps rise from 32-34deg up to 38-40 while sitting in traffic, they drop straight back down as soon as you start moving. My maps are tuned to compensate for the variance in inlet temps.

Also have you/are you guys gotten that awesome plenum flow tested?

Plenum hasn't been flow tested on a bench, I dont have a flowbench yet... ;)

It has been flow tested in solidworks though and the flow looks even in the analysis done there.

Annnnnd, how come you are scrapping the Apexi? Not the most brilliant ECU, but I would say it does the job apart from the temp gauge.

If you've used/tuned a vipec you'd know why it's being changed. Makes the PFC seem like a toy. Also being done for gear based boost control, waterspray control, direct wideband input, and the lovely closed loop idle the vipec offers...

The final dyno tuning will be done by Mark at Godzilla, who I'm sure you've heard of if you have a skyline ;) He did the dyno tuning of my V88 in my forester too.

The powerfc's OK, but we like to innovate..

And don't be soft... pump the boost, spare 1zz short motor is chump change these days. I wanna see at least 1 bar out of this thing!

One step ahead of you, already have the spare motor :D

[Guni]

I know my questions were a bit nooby <_<

[CHA54]

the pressure plate is the part that provides the clamp force to lock the clutch disc to the flywheel so the engine can turn the gearbox input shaft.

A "full face" clutch disc is just your normal fully circular clutch disc with friction material the whole way around. You can get different types of friction material, Organic material stands up to being slipped/abused more than some other material. Puck clutches have more bite due to the design and friction matierial used, you usually have anywhere from 3 to 10 "pucks" of friction material around the circumference of the disc. The friction material can be brass, carbon, kevlar, ceramic etc etc. Puck clutches also have a tendency to chew up the flywheel surface more and wear faster than a full face disc. The 4 puck ceramic clutch in my old 4agze corolla lasted about 4000km of daily city driving before it gave way and was then replaced with a full face organic disc.

Pressure plates can develop different amounts of clamp force to hold the clutch disc to the flywheel face. This is influenced by the lever design of the pressure plate fingers as you dont really want to put a clutch in the car which is impossible to push the pedal to the floor. Some corolla's have a pressed steel clutch fork which can be bent if you have a poorly designed pressure plate with too high a clamp force. Other corolla's have a cast iron clutch fork which is much more difficult to break and more suited to the very heavy pressure plates. I've seen people re-enforce the pressed steel forks by welding additional steel down the sides of them to try and prevent the flexing and bending wtih heavy pressure plates.

A clutch will usually start to slip when the engines making enough power/torque to overcome the clamp force of the pressure plate, or when your clutch friction material has worn away. You'll typically get a couple of hundred thousand km's out of a standard clutch driven with mechanical sympathy. I've seen one corolla get 400,000km from it's original standard clutch before the whole drivetrain was removed for a conversion :P

Edited November 11, 2008 by rollamods

[Mintos]

LOL ....... hows the skywhine Kai ?

Hey Bill :D

The Kailine is doing well mang, although I do concur with the chronic whining of the standard turbo. Next job after the 100k service is a brake overhaul then something around the area of a nice 600hp turbo will be slapped on :) But this is why the Skyline is awesome, because you don't have to go all out to get the performance.

Oh and of course as always I am vigilantly evading the random (import targeted) defect stations... it is becoming a real issue owning a nice car these days, as the boys in blue make you feel like a criminal for driving one

We are all awaiting the next stage on your car too mate, don't leave the people waiting... oooorrrr you could just admitt that you have pretty much done all that you can with FWD and are moving to a better platform :P

The turbo is perfect for the 1.8 with my manifold, instant boost that doesn't taper off at all from 2000rpm to redline ;-)

No plans for a built motor at this stage as 1zz long motors are only $600-700, we already have a spare which was used for the manifold fabrication etc.

Having a well powered Suby I would have thought you understand the point of a turbo by now JP... instant, random, tyre frying horsepower. Who cares if it comes on at 2k? The difference a turbo makes to overall engine output is exponential, they don't start making any SUBSTANTIAL difference in output until 3-4k depending on gear/load and size of the motor.

And if you are going to argue everyday drivability... don't know about you, but efficiency is my number one concern and unless I need to accelerate substantially I rarely go above atmospheric manifold pressure for the simple reason that a safe tune is going to involve in some petrol dosing when that -kpa turns into +kpa :P

Soooo, the only reason left for not getting a bigger turbo then is fear of the 1zz's matchstick sized rods with power approaching the 200atw region - amirite? :P

Stock paint coating on the cooler from FPV. Heatsoak hasn't been a problem in stop-start traffic in the recent 30+ degree days in Brisbane. Datalogs show the intake temps rise from 32-34deg up to 38-40 while sitting in traffic, they drop straight back down as soon as you start moving. My maps are tuned to compensate for the variance in inlet temps.

That is an F6 cooler? Yeah they are anodized I am quite sure, probably why you are all good :)

If you've used/tuned a vipec you'd know why it's being changed. Makes the PFC seem like a toy. Also being done for gear based boost control, waterspray control, direct wideband input, and the lovely closed loop idle the vipec offers...

The final dyno tuning will be done by Mark at Godzilla, who I'm sure you've heard of if you have a skyline ;) He did the dyno tuning of my V88 in my forester too.

The powerfc's OK, but we like to innovate..

I am yet to see a vipec in action, however it isn't hard to imagine it making the PFC look like a pocket calculator. PFC has got to be the most basic software out there, probably why so many people love them, as well as their precious 'knock' readings... they are the amateur tuners tool of choice.

Waterspray as well eh? will be interesting to see if that does much for the turbo, are you going to have it fire on intake temp?

I know of Mark from Godzilla... a few local guys fly him down to Newcastle just to get him to tune their GTR's they have that much faith in him. That being said I would be somewhat selective of who touched my ECU as well if I was running a 1000hp street GTR with a $40,000 motor :P

Also, please more details of the Vipec and how it goes in your forester, Vipecs are made by Link aren't they?... what did you end up making with it power wise? I was considering getting one of these beasts for mine when I pump up the turbo, but I like my little Wolf controller with full feedback and from what I have read such a thing isn't yet available for the Vipec. I cbf setting up a laptop and **** just to monitor my temps/boost/etc.

Excellent explanation on clutches too JP, A+ :P

[CHA54]

instant, random, tyre frying horsepower. Who cares if it comes on at 2k? The difference a turbo makes to overall engine output is exponential, they don't start making any SUBSTANTIAL difference in output until 3-4k depending on gear/load and size of the motor.

My personal garage currently only contains turbocharged vehicles, ranging in power from 140 to 220kw atw. For daily driving I prefer the cars with well-matched turbo's. Tuned well enough it doesn't make much difference to economy if you're hitting positive pressure early in the rev range. Everyone that's driven my vvti 1J wagon can't believe how good it is to drive, even though it makes max torque at 2400rpm and boosts instantly it's still economical. That's with only 190kw atw too... :P

That is an F6 cooler? Yeah they are anodized I am quite sure, probably why you are all good

It's painted. When the FPV sticker was removed, Pippy used thinners to clean the sticky residue left over from the top plate of the cooler, it tool the paint off straight away. That doesn't happen with adonizing.

Waterspray as well eh? will be interesting to see if that does much for the turbo, are you going to have it fire on intake temp?

I know of Mark from Godzilla... a few local guys fly him down to Newcastle just to get him to tune their GTR's they have that much faith in him. That being said I would be somewhat selective of who touched my ECU as well if I was running a 1000hp street GTR with a $40,000 motor

Also, please more details of the Vipec and how it goes in your forester, Vipecs are made by Link aren't they?... what did you end up making with it power wise? I was considering getting one of these beasts for mine when I pump up the turbo, but I like my little Wolf controller with full feedback and from what I have read such a thing isn't yet available for the Vipec. I cbf setting up a laptop and **** just to monitor my temps/boost/etc.

Waterspray will be pre-throttle into the plenum. Same 50/50 mix it was using with the charger. Given the current design I could fit injection bosses to the individual runners if I really wanted.

The RH9 R34GTR was at Marks workshop being tuned when I was out there last, owner shipped the car up from canberra to be retuned after not being satisfied with the previous workshop in Sydney. Quite a nice car.

The vipec's are manufactured by Link, with the features etc tailored to Ray's specs now that he's parted ways with Autronic. Mine made 220kw with 17/18psi at all 4 with a lot less timing than the previous tuner's effort in Sydney on the Autronic. The ECU change was also made because the Link/Vipec has full support for the EZ30R and it's quad AVCS, the next drivetrain for my car with some rods, pistons and a turbo thrown at it.

If you want a display, you can simply plug in a DisplayLink, Racepack dash, or a few of the other displays that work off the CAN bus output on the ECU.

As for improvements the Vipec has made over my old Autronic SM4, the car now starts instantly instead of taking 5-6 cranks to fire, the idle is rock solid now, where before it used to have a small hunt. The AFR's are very consistent now, where before they would wander at their own accord (probably CTE table was screwed by previous tuner), and now my LC-1's also interfaced directly to the ECU making road tuning a lot easier. As a bonus the fuel economy's been massively improved and the engine is for some reason using less oil now.

[NextGenTuning]

Hey everyone, I just got finished reading up on this entire build and I'm VERY impressed. But...I'm curious, what ever happened with it? Everything stopped on the topic in the middle of November. Let me know where I can catch up on the rest of this.

Thanks,

[CHA54]

Not much to report, it's had zero issues and being daily driven...

Next up is the clutch install once I clear out the other jobs that are scheduled. After that the boost will be wound up with a Vipec V44, timeframe for that is likely to be late January. I've got a lot of other car's in progress.

[Guni]

Not much to report, it's had zero issues and being daily driven...

Next up is the clutch install once I clear out the other jobs that are scheduled. After that the boost will be wound up with a Vipec V44, timeframe for that is likely to be late January. I've got a lot of other car's in progress.

Will be following that with plenty of interest i Seeeeeeeee ..........

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[DANZZT231]

Yeap, this car is amazing.

I test driven it and boy its smooth, feels like factory set up. It reminds me of Golf GTi MKV.

[NextGenTuning]

are there any videos? I'd like to hear this beast.

[xoom]

Yeap, this car is amazing.

I test driven it and boy its smooth, feels like factory set up. It reminds me of Golf GTi MKV.

now imagine what 50% more boost going into a 2zz must feel like Danz ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Hurry up jase and post some 1/4 times ...... i know u wanna show up the N/A 2zz fellas so hurry up n do it already :P :P :P

[DANZZT231]

Once I sort out the drivetrain then I can start looking for power upgrade.

However I don't know how long I will be in QLD so its situation dependent at the moment.

But I know where to take my car if I want to turbo it ;)

[SILVABULLIT]

So do we have some figures on the current set up?? before boost is increased? Any other drama's even if small with the set up?

Don't be shy now kids It's not like you guys to hide info from all to see.......

[CHA54]

hasn't been to the dyno yet, waiting for clutch to go in... My street tune is doing just fine, SFA knock levels compared to the TRD charger, and a lot more power judging by the ease it breaks traction. EGT's are a lot lower too.

As stated above, it's had no issues at all.

will post graphs for 7 and 11psi once it goes to Godzilla, also pfc V's V44.

Edit: Just thought of an 'issue', I dont like the AFR control at idle with the PFC, there's no manual AC trim adjustment for the injector pulsewidth so it needs to run a bit rich at normal idle to compensate for the extra load induced when the AC compressor kicks in. This is easily fixed with the Vipec though.

Edited December 21, 2008 by CHA54

[NextGenTuning]

I'll be waiting for some numbers. If the numbers are as good as expected...I'll be in touch about the manifolds.

Thanks,

[SILVABULLIT]

So you are currently running PFC till the Vipec turns up yeah? What clutch set did you end up going with too?

[CHA54]

running the PFC until I make the plug-in adapter for the vipec. Clutch is custom NPC unit with full face sprung organic disc, modified Asin pressure plate.

[TRIPPER]

But I know where to take my car if I want to turbo it ;)

Where?

[SuperDave]

Any updates on this? Curious to know how it went on the dyno if it's been tuned yet.

Jason, thought I would direct you to this thread where the Yanks are doing a 2zz intake manifold. A few 1zz-ers are desperate, whether they front money is another matter.

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=249303

[CHA54]

Hasn't been to the dyno yet as that's not happening until we put the new clutch in. Most of the other cars have been completed so it's back to this one now, clutch then vipec then dyno. The new wideband closed loop feature in the latest vipec firmware looks very nice, dont need to worry about the narrowband anymore for the closed loop fueling as it can work from the AFR target table with the wideband input. Jason said he's clocked up ~5000km now with the turbo setup without a hitch.

I've been watching that thread since it was started in 2007 having a quiet laugh to myself. Too much trouble dealing with the US to make it worth my time.

Edited January 22, 2009 by CHA54

[51EKA]

Hurry up with the vipec.. I'm waiting for you guys to be the guinea pig before I jump on board.