Engine noise or piston slap from Aurion motor

[solarstriker]

Hello all

I have an Aurion V6 2007 which has a noisy engine on cold start. Details below show a possible solution.

Just dropping some info on some recent experiences I had in determining the cause of a noisy engine on cold start up and continues until "FULL" operating temp. I am sure there are many drivers that have had a similar experience. The engine sounds like a diesel for the first 10 minutes of driving and slowly the noise smooths out. Drives you nuts!!!!!

I spoke to Toyota technical division and they have confirmed there is a paper which details the reasons for the noise which is very likely piston slap. From what I can gather from the info, the noise may be piston slap due to a greater gap between the cylinder and the piston when cold. I was advised this is normal. Not happy to just listen to the noise, I tried some other solutions. You may notice the oil that some service places use is 5W-30. This is thin oil and I found did not help the noise at all so I tried using Penrite 20W-50. This rating is acceptable as per the owners manual.

The difference was amazing. So much quieter. Easily a 100% reduction on noise levels. Obviously this will differ depending on the mean temperature on where the car is being driven. I hope this may help any fellow Aurion drivers out there with similar frustrations...

[DJKOR]

You may notice the oil that some service places use is 5W-30. This is thin oil and I found did not help the noise at all so I tried using Penrite 20W-50. This rating is acceptable as per the owners manual.

Logically, yes that thicker oil will reduce that noise, but that oil is far from the recommended oil for the 2GR-FE. The recommended oil is 10W30 for most Australian conditions and I wouldn't want to go any thicker for the oil. You may be reducing the noise and having greater peace of mind, but you could also unknowingly be putting extra wear on your engine. Also, there has been some discussion over on the Aurion boards.

Piston Slap in Aurion

Rattle in start up

[solarstriker]

You may notice the oil that some service places use is 5W-30. This is thin oil and I found did not help the noise at all so I tried using Penrite 20W-50. This rating is acceptable as per the owners manual.

Logically, yes that thicker oil will reduce that noise, but that oil is far from the recommended oil for the 2GR-FE. The recommended oil is 10W30 for most Australian conditions and I wouldn't want to go any thicker for the oil. You may be reducing the noise and having greater peace of mind, but you could also unknowingly be putting extra wear on your engine. Also, there has been some discussion over on the Aurion boards.

Piston Slap in Aurion

Rattle in start up

Hmmm Does not sounds right.

Your comment in relation to the 20S-50W and I quote "that oil is far from the recommended oil for the 2GR-FE" does not go along with what is "recommended" in the owners manual. I spoke to the technical division at Toyota and they confirm using 20W-50 can be used as per the manual. In the manual there is no reference of 10W-30 being the general recommended oil. Toyota technical division said to check the owners manual and based on the "mean temperature" that the vehicle drives in, then use the suggested oil accordingly. The 20W-50 lists as temps from -7C to 38C. Sounds like Australia to me.

I can not see how this 20W-50 oil could put extra wear on an engine? The fact that I am hearing piston slap, worries me more from an "Engine Wear" point of view. The idea of these metals behaving like this only brings up the thought of wearing in my mind! The clearances may be too big at cold. I have never seen this in a new car ever! The noise should NOT be there in the first place.

I have no doubt that my Aurion V6 engine runs like a dream since I put the Penrite 20W-50. Cold start noise is 80-90% less. The time taken for it to really smooth out is 2-3 minutes of driving instead of 10-15 minutes. I have gone from wanting to sell it to happy to keep it. (and by the way - I do not work for Penrite. They just make good oils)

[DJKOR]

I wasn't referring to the owners manual but the actual 2GR-FE service manual (which actually recommends 5W30, but in Aussie climate, 10W30 is no different). I apologise that I wasn't more specific there. As for the grade of oil, if you just wanted to solve the cold start issue, why not move to a 15W40 so that the oil is not too thin when cold and should fix the noise, and not too thick when hot so as to reduce economy?

The thing you need to remember here is that when it comes to a cold engine, the first number in the viscosity rating is all you need to worry about. The second number though is where you need to be concerned. The primary issue that you may come across is that you may experience less economy because the heavier oil will flow less easily. In addition to that though, the ticker oil has the potential to disrupt the oil flow characteristics of the engine and may even create higher than normal oil pressures. I can see in the actual owners manual that they say you can use 20W50, but being such a new engine, I would not even consider moving to this oil grade so soon.

But that said, this is my personal opinion from the way that I have learnt about it all working. If you are satisfied with the 20W50, then continue to use it then. I'm not going to stop you, I would just rather stay close to the engine recommendations.

[solarstriker]

I wasn't referring to the owners manual but the actual 2GR-FE service manual (which actually recommends 5W30, but in Aussie climate, 10W30 is no different). I apologise that I wasn't more specific there. As for the grade of oil, if you just wanted to solve the cold start issue, why not move to a 15W40 so that the oil is not too thin when cold and should fix the noise, and not too thick when hot so as to reduce economy?

The thing you need to remember here is that when it comes to a cold engine, the first number in the viscosity rating is all you need to worry about. The second number though is where you need to be concerned. The primary issue that you may come across is that you may experience less economy because the heavier oil will flow less easily. In addition to that though, the ticker oil has the potential to disrupt the oil flow characteristics of the engine and may even create higher than normal oil pressures.

But that said, this is my personal opinion from the way that I have learn't about it all working. If you are satisfied with the 20W50, then continue to use it then. I'm not going to stop you, I would just rather stay close to the engine recommendations.

Thank you for the feed back. I appreciate it. All good...

Come winter I may scale down to the 15W-40. With the high 30s we are having the 20W-50 works a treat.

Maybe Toyota will take note of the many annoyed drivers who put up with the rattle and clunk.

There has been so many denials and comments about it being "normal". Yes... Is it NORMAL based on a design fault with the engine?

Just like if I was blind. Would I will walk into walls.

[rodspringer]

I totally agree these engines should be silent as the grave.....

My 1 JZ GTE is 17 years old with 115000 kms on it and I get a small rattle for like 4 seconds on start up.

Aurion has a larger engine with way less Kms so this should be a complete non issue for you guys

My 2c

[DJKOR]

There has been so many denials and comments about it being "normal". Yes... Is it NORMAL based on a design fault with the engine?

The one reason they pass this off as normal is due to the fact that most motors these days are assembled with the assumption that all pistons will fit equally well in all cylinders and does not allow for variations in the size of engine cylinders or pistons. The pistons of slightly varying size are not individually matched with the cylinders of slightly varying size. However if they both fall into the correct minimum and maximum specifications, then they don't need to fix it.

This would probably be why each case varies and yours for example may be solved better with your chosen oil type. There is the potential that you engine may have the both the cylinders and the pistons on the minimum specification which makes yours more noticeable compared to others which have pistons and cylinders that are more tightly matched.

[rodspringer]

Sounds like messy engine building to me.....

Surely Toyota can build an engine that wont have issues such as these its not like Aurions are cheap

[solarstriker]

Sounds like messy engine building to me.....

Surely Toyota can build an engine that wont have issues such as these its not like Aurions are cheap

I agree. They should have done the research on this one.

I have a Honda Euro 2008 which is cheaper that the new Aurion I have and it just sings every time the motor starts.

Cold or hot its perfect. I drove professionally for 15 years and never came across this noise in a new car.

Maybe in a 20 year old Falcon...

My Aurion V6 engine has done 28,000 Kms with oil change very 5K and is just worn in...

I expect more from an engine.

Putting all the negative comments aside, the heavier oil has made the difference and hopefully for the long term.

[rodspringer]

Your Aurion will last forever if you keep up the 5000km service intervals :)

Penrite is good oil everyone raves about it built for aussie conditions too.

I always change my oil every 5000 kms also but I run AGIP SINT EVO 10w 40 oil.

Genuine oil for Lamborgini

[solarstriker]

Hello all

I have an Aurion V6 2007 which has a noisy engine on cold start. Details below show a possible solution.

Just dropping some info on some recent experiences I had in determining the cause of a noisy engine on cold start up and continues until "FULL" operating temp. I am sure there are many drivers that have had a similar experience. The engine sounds like a diesel for the first 10 minutes of driving and slowly the noise smooths out. Drives you nuts!!!!!

I spoke to Toyota technical division and they have confirmed there is a paper which details the reasons for the noise which is very likely piston slap. From what I can gather from the info, the noise may be piston slap due to a greater gap between the cylinder and the piston when cold. I was advised this is normal. Not happy to just listen to the noise, I tried some other solutions. You may notice the oil that some service places use is 5W-30. This is thin oil and I found did not help the noise at all so I tried using Penrite 20W-50. This rating is acceptable as per the owners manual.

The difference was amazing. So much quieter. Easily a 100% reduction on noise levels. Obviously this will differ depending on the mean temperature on where the car is being driven. I hope this may help any fellow Aurion drivers out there with similar frustrations...

[dave262]

I can't say that I've ever noticed this "piston slap" effect in the Aurion engine. My 2008 model has done about 29,300km and was bought brand new, it gets serviced every 15,000km, and it has never had this rattle issue at all. I drive it daily, often for short trips with regular long runs on weekends for day trips and such - and it runs fine. It gets thrashed a bit now and then, driven like a granny other times, yet no rattles, clunks or anything - even during startup. It runs the recommended 10W30 oil with no problems. I would never consider changing it to 20W50 oil, as it is simply too thick for such a modern engine with such tight clearances.

I have seen exactly what the effect of piston slap is, as I had a 1990 Mitsubishi Magna which suffered from piston slap in the last 6 months of the engine life - right before it bored the cylinders into oval shapes as a result. I still have the block, pistons and everything as physical evidence of what significant damage piston slap can cause - and can take some pictures if you don't believe how catastrophic it can be. If the Aurion engine seriously had this actual piston slap effect, the engine will likely suffer the same fate of an early grave (the Magna had only done 114,000km before the piston slap caused complete failure)!

I don't mean to rant on, but I just can't understand how an engine that is basically a Lexus engine - from a company such as Toyota/Lexus - that will halt sales after a single unique engine failure (the TRD Aurion in early days after a single piston failure) - would release an engine that knowingly has such a significant issue. Keep in mind that this same engine is now used in the Aurion, TRD, Hilux, Tarago and various other models. Would they seriously release an engine that they know will ruin their image for legendary reliable cars and then put it in most their line-up?

[MartysAurion]

I never drive off until it's idling at 800rpm however it can take up to 2 - 5 mins sometimes she starts at 1.4!

I've done almost 10,000 in it O haven't had a service yet. Anyway I'll service her soon but it cost $380! and from what I can tell they do Sweet stuff all change the filters (which anyone can do) and oil. I got a quote for $250 from a local who will service plus Dino tune.

I wish I had the equipment to raise the car then I could drain the trans and engine oil replace the filters and the Genuine service would cost sweet stuff all!. I called the service department and they advised if I bought K&N filters it would save me big bucks in servicing as their genuine drop in air filters are $90!!!!! and crap!

:P never had an issue cause I treat her right :P

Edited April 18, 2009 by MartysAurion

[dave262]

Technically according to the manual, you actually don't really have to wait until the idle is steady. Usually just letting it run for about 30 seconds should be enough to allow the oil to lubricate everything properly. The oil filters in the Aurions (and many other models) aren't like the old style metal canisters from old cars - they are actually internal filter elements installed behind a cap on the engine itself. They are relatively easy to replace, but there are a few extra steps involved and some additional tools needed to do it properly. There is a thread on this forum somewhere about doing the change.

The trans appears to be a sealed unit, and is designed to go for a long time without service - so I wouldn't go touching the oil in that unless you have a genuine need to!

In relation to the K&N - they are good filters in that they are reusable and are less restrictive, but be careful with the filter oil as it can cause problems with the airflow meter.