Anyone did Earth kit on Aurion?

[JIN]

Hey guys.

Just wondering, anyone did earth kit on your Aurion?

I am having headlights dimmed when the volume goes up a bit so I am planning to do the ground cable upgrading since I have some left over from amplifiering kit.

As I know, the original ground cables are in mix of 8 gauge and 16 guage(correct me if I am wrong), so I would like to upgrade those in 4 and 8 gauge.

The question is, how many points of ground just under the bonnet(roughly)?

how many metre of cable I would need for the job done?

I've read through the Electirical Wiring Diagram from sticky post but it only shows rough cable points etc..

Any comments would be appreciated in advance.

Cheers.

PS. where do you normally buy the ring terminals from??

[DJKOR]

Just wondering, anyone did earth kit on your Aurion?

I am having headlights dimmed when the volume goes up a bit so I am planning to do the ground cable upgrading since I have some left over from amplifiering kit.

As I know, the original ground cables are in mix of 8 gauge and 16 guage(correct me if I am wrong), so I would like to upgrade those in 4 and 8 gauge.

The question is, how many points of ground just under the bonnet(roughly)?

how many metre of cable I would need for the job done?

PS. where do you normally buy the ring terminals from??

As far as I'm aware, I've only seen/heard of TRDLover upgrading his grounding in the engine bay. Have a look at his 10th photo here.

The grounding in the engine bay does appear to be a combination of 8, 12, and 14 gauge wiring to me, but that stuff has thinner insulation so the actual wire gauge may be different to what it appears.

How many points of grounding that are already there, or how many should you add? I'm not too sure how many are currently there by standard, but there doesn't seem to be a lot that is visible. I haven't got the time right now to count everything up. Your best option is to just add to them and not replace them. A good start would be to run 4 gauge from your negative battery terminal to the engine block, and a short length of 2 gauge from the negative terminal of the battery to the chassis. The 4 gauge run should only need about 0.5 metres and the 2 gauge run, about 0.25 metres. Try to keep this length as short as possible.

If you want to use your existing cable and don't have 2 gauge, you will need to just do this with multiple lengths of cable. Two to three lengths of 4 gauge should be sufficient for the 2 gauge run. That should be more than sufficient for the grounding, but it does no harm having extra room to play with. Plus, if you are already having issues with your lights dimming, then you must be running quite some load there. You can get solder or crimp ring terminals from Jaycar. Repco also stock Narva crimp terminals, but those are only useful up to about 10 gauge.

[the_random_hero]

More grounding points isn't better ;) Ideally, everything should be grounded to the same point on the chassis, then connected to the battery.

There are only two grounding points you really need - battery to chassis, and battery to engine block. Start out by making them 2 or even 0 gauge.

[AUR30N]

Hey guys.

Just wondering, anyone did earth kit on your Aurion?

I am having headlights dimmed when the volume goes up a bit so I am planning to do the ground cable upgrading since I have some left over from amplifiering kit.

As I know, the original ground cables are in mix of 8 gauge and 16 guage(correct me if I am wrong), so I would like to upgrade those in 4 and 8 gauge.

The question is, how many points of ground just under the bonnet(roughly)?

how many metre of cable I would need for the job done?

I've read through the Electirical Wiring Diagram from sticky post but it only shows rough cable points etc..

Any comments would be appreciated in advance.

Cheers.

PS. where do you normally buy the ring terminals from??

Hey D00d if your lights are dimming when sound is pumped up then it drawning big load of current.

This is due to your amplifier drawing more power than your electrical system can handle. A capacitor fixes this problem, it job is too keep a reserve of power, whenever your amplifier tries to draw a ton of power it supplies that power instead, keeping your electronics running smooth.

Jaycar sell these capacitors and so does Strathfeild car radios or any car audio place. 1uf,3uf,5uf.

More earthing points of diffrent guage will only eliminate engine noise from your alternator that you hear sometimes when engines running.some time you have to put a suppressor to eliminate it.

PS Capacitor will definately fix your problem I used install custom sound system and have won some tropheys

Cheers

Azza

Edited February 18, 2009 by Azza73

[JIN]

Thanks guys for your input.

..A capacitor fixes this problem, it job is too keep a reserve of power, whenever your amplifier tries to draw a ton of power it supplies that power instead, keeping your electronics running smooth...

..PS Capacitor will definately fix your problem I used install custom sound system and have won some tropheys ...

Yeah I know capacitor may solve my problem easy.

What I am thinking to do is, capacitor could be a resistance in the middle of the way to amp and it still draws the power.

I just wanted to make sure all the power lines, especially the grounding, work properly to pass the electric flow nicely before I do the capacitor.

Actually, capacitor is my last option because capacitor with poor power lines does not make sense to me.

I would just get the basic tight then go other options.

If the grounding does not solve my problem, then I will go for better battery, alternator upgrade then capacitor.

It sounds like I don't even need to go for capacitor once I change the alternator with bigger amp.

Thanks for your advice anyway.

Cheers.

[the_random_hero]

Hey D00d if your lights are dimming when sound is pumped up then it drawning big load of current.

This is due to your amplifier drawing more power than your electrical system can handle. A capacitor fixes this problem, it job is too keep a reserve of power, whenever your amplifier tries to draw a ton of power it supplies that power instead, keeping your electronics running smooth.

Jaycar sell these capacitors and so does Strathfeild car radios or any car audio place. 1uf,3uf,5uf.

More earthing points of diffrent guage will only eliminate engine noise from your alternator that you hear sometimes when engines running.some time you have to put a suppressor to eliminate it.

PS Capacitor will definately fix your problem I used install custom sound system and have won some tropheys

Cheers

Azza

Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Don't post if you don't know what they hell you're talking about.

Edited February 18, 2009 by the_random_hero

[AUR30N]

Thanks guys for your input.

..A capacitor fixes this problem, it job is too keep a reserve of power, whenever your amplifier tries to draw a ton of power it supplies that power instead, keeping your electronics running smooth...

..PS Capacitor will definately fix your problem I used install custom sound system and have won some tropheys ...

Yeah I know capacitor may solve my problem easy.

What I am thinking to do is, capacitor could be a resistance in the middle of the way to amp and it still draws the power.

I just wanted to make sure all the power lines, especially the grounding, work properly to pass the electric flow nicely before I do the capacitor.

Actually, capacitor is my last option because capacitor with poor power lines does not make sense to me.

I would just get the basic tight then go other options.

If the grounding does not solve my problem, then I will go for better battery, alternator upgrade then capacitor.

It sounds like I don't even need to go for capacitor once I change the alternator with bigger amp.

Thanks for your advice anyway.

Cheers.

Jin

It all depends on your setup etc

1. what amps are you running brand?

2. how many of amps?

3. How many watts rms each amp?

4. how many subs and brand & wattage?

5. what guaged wire?

by putting more earths will not fix your problem i can tell you now.

depending on how big your setup is I'd be Put a fuse into 12v wire in the engine bay no more than 0.5m away from battery running 4awg from battery to capacitor then from cap to a power block from distrubution power block i'd be running 8awg to amps.

biiger battery and alternator $$$$$$ can all be voided by cap - Its the low frequency in bass that draws the current

also allot of cables look fat and mean but are all just insulation and standard copper core thinkness all decieving what you need is quality brand with lotsa copper cores (copper is expensive) hence cheaper cable advetised as monster cable have less copper cores and thats why there cheaper than good brand names.

also cheaper cables have higher resistance & capacitance than better quality cable which mean power loss etc you get what you pay for.....

you can have best subs available on the market but without the right enclosure and ports etc will sound like 20 dollar sub there is so man factors to take into consideration when designing sound system for car. every cars diffrent its a complex system shapes boot spaces that act as enclosure diffrent volumes etc

just cause you have the best stuff on the market doesn't mean you will have the best sound if not installed and designed properly.

I been involved in few project like the starthfeild car radio bedford van back in 1996 which consisted

9 x 12 inch subs

9 x rockford forsgate amps

etc etc

pulling 160.5db in sound offs

just remember every 3 db is double the loudness - also what kill speakers in not over powering them its cheap amps that don't have clean sine wave as power and tend to clip its the clipping that kills speakers. dirty sine waves

here couple trophies i won back in 98 there to many to take pics of lol

Azza

Edited March 10, 2009 by Azza73

[DJKOR]

Hey D00d if your lights are dimming when sound is pumped up then it drawning big load of current.

This is due to your amplifier drawing more power than your electrical system can handle. A capacitor fixes this problem, it job is too keep a reserve of power, whenever your amplifier tries to draw a ton of power it supplies that power instead, keeping your electronics running smooth.

-Jaycar sell these capacitors and so does Strathfeild car radios or any car audio place. 1uf,3uf,5uf.

More earthing points of diffrent guage will only eliminate engine noise from your alternator that you hear sometimes when engines running.some time you have to put a suppressor to eliminate it.

PS Capacitor will definately fix your problem I used install custom sound system and have won some tropheys

Cheers

Azza

Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Don't post if you don't know what they hell you're talking about.

+1 on suggestions from this guy. This guy really does know his stuff. You always were better than me with the electronics weren't you Drew. Bob would be proud.

[AUR30N]

Hey D00d if your lights are dimming when sound is pumped up then it drawning big load of current.

This is due to your amplifier drawing more power than your electrical system can handle. A capacitor fixes this problem, it job is too keep a reserve of power, whenever your amplifier tries to draw a ton of power it supplies that power instead, keeping your electronics running smooth.

Jaycar sell these capacitors and so does Strathfeild car radios or any car audio place. 1uf,3uf,5uf.

More earthing points of diffrent guage will only eliminate engine noise from your alternator that you hear sometimes when engines running.some time you have to put a suppressor to eliminate it.

PS Capacitor will definately fix your problem I used install custom sound system and have won some tropheys

Cheers

Azza

Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Don't post if you don't know what they hell you're talking about.

how about you explain your self champ.....! with some facts instead of just posting useless post with no answer to it....... and dj no need for appriasel to useless reply with no explanasion

Azza

Edited February 18, 2009 by Azza73

[Freddo]

generally the benefit in earthing kits is with older vehicles where earthing connections have degraded.

but there is no harm in providing some redundancy for the earthing.

[the_random_hero]

Hey D00d if your lights are dimming when sound is pumped up then it drawning big load of current. Well, yeah. Obviously.

This is due to your amplifier drawing more power than your electrical system can handle. A capacitor fixes this problem, it job is too keep a reserve of power, whenever your amplifier tries to draw a ton of power it supplies that power instead, keeping your electronics running smooth. Capacitors are completely and utterly useless on 99% of audio installs. They put more stress on the alternator/battery, no to mention they will cause less power to get to the amp. I'm not making this up, this is basic electronic theory here. Your explanation is what they do isn't strictly correct either.

Jaycar sell these capacitors and so does Strathfeild car radios or any car audio place. 1uf,3uf,5uf. Well, ermm. I'd like to see you put a 1uF capacitor in an audio install and see what difference it makes. To have any noticeable (not good) difference, you'd at least need a farad.

More earthing points of diffrent guage will only eliminate engine noise from your alternator that you hear sometimes when engines running.some time you have to put a suppressor to eliminate it. This is just completely wrong. More earthing points will generally make any problems worse as you have the potential for ground loops. The only reason you'll generally get alternator noise in a amplifier situation is due to a stuffed regulator. I'm not even going to start on the suppressor idea, but it seems like something I'd hear from somebody who was probably an installer at Strathfield.

PS Capacitor will definately fix your problem I used install custom sound system and have won some tropheys I've done ten or more systems that are 140dB+, and never found a need for a capacitor yet - a lot of those systems were in excess of 1000RMS.

Cheers

Azza

That good enough for you? I just caught this thread before I went out, and I would hate to see somebody go out and waste their money when there's no need for it. Headlights dimming mean two things - inadequate power supply (read battery and alternator, not capacitor) or earthing not up to scratch. A single 0/2 gauge earth to the chassis and a single 0/2 gauge earth to the engine block is basically all you need - leave the factory engine earths in there in case yours fails and you can't start your car. It might also be a good idea to upgrade to a dry-cell battery (Optima, etc) as this can help. For the power you need, you don't require an alternator upgrade.

[JIN]

eww...guys..I didn't mean to have any arguments in this thread because of this issue.

My apoligies if anyone got tempered here.

I could tell I know about my setting because I put them in by myself after alot of studying about amps, electric stuffs, subs, cables, sound deadning ETC...

Q: 1. what amps are you running brand?

A: I've got 400WRMS amp (Clarion APX1301)+ 400WRMS@ 2OHM sealed sub.

That's only thing for now and if I turn up the volume a bit high I saw my headlights were dimming.

Q: 2. how many of amps?

A: just 1 of A/B class mono amp but going to put another amp for front speakers. Another amp will be Kenwood KAC-PS301T.

3. How many watts rms each amp?

400WRMS for sub + 200WRMS, 500W Max(maybe? couldn't find the exact info of kenwood amp) for front

4. how many subs and brand & wattage?

Just 1 of 12", as above, 400WRMS at 2 Ohm. 1000W max.

5. what guaged wire?

The sub is wired all around with 4guage cable(inc. ground).

Before we discuss about my setting, let me explain a bit more detail why I want to do the grounding.

I AM NOT ADDING THE GROUND POINTS AT ALL.

I am just upgrading the factory ground cables to thicker and good quality cables.

I've studied about amp wiring and learned that the power cable and ground cable should be in same size.

OR the electric does not flow well because once the big amount of elcetric comes through the thicker power cable but could not flow out into the smaller ground cable.

That causes unstable and insufficient power for any of devices using elctric. so I opened up the bonnet and found the cables were in poor size and this is why I want to upgrade my grounding.

Apologies if my explanation doesn't make sense but I am not an electrician but I know what I am doing.

I know capacitor would solve the headlight dimming problem. However, as I explained above, I just want the basis done properly which I strongly believe the grounding + proper power cabling is the basis for any of devices using electric.

BTW, I replaced 2 of engine block ground cables into 4 gauge (looks like the factory ones in 8gauge) and it seems like I could go a little bit more volume up without headlights dimming.

Edited February 18, 2009 by JIN

[the_random_hero]

Before we discuss about my setting, let me explain a bit more detail why I want to do the grounding.

I AM NOT ADDING THE GROUND POINTS AT ALL.

I am just upgrading the factory ground cables to thicker and good quality cables.

I've studied about amp wiring and learned that the power cable and ground cable should be in same size.

OR the electric does not flow well because once the big amount of elcetric comes through the thicker power cable but could not flow out into the smaller ground cable.

That causes unstable and insufficient power for any of devices using elctric. so I opened up the bonnet and found the cables were in poor size and this is why I want to upgrade my grounding.

Apologies if my explanation doesn't make sense but I am not an electrician but I know what I am doing.

I know capacitor would solve the headlight dimming problem. However, as I explained above, I just want the basis done properly which I strongly believe the grounding + proper power cabling is the basis for any of devices using electric.

BTW, I replaced 2 of engine block ground cables into 4 gauge (looks like the factory ones in 8gauge) and it seems like I could go a little bit more volume up without headlights dimming.

Good to hear, I thought you meant earth kit as in those cheap, nasty eBay jobbies that promise 10kW/blowjob/etc. The earth you need to upgrade now is the main chassis earth - track back from the negative terminal of your battery to where it bolts onto the chassis. You need to replace this whole cable with something substantially thicker. My car only had two earths from the battery, so I picked up a block terminal from Jaycar (as below, minus the voltmeter), then replaced both earths with 0 gauge and terminated with ring terminals on one end, and bare metal on the other. Jaycar sells everything you need, not sure if they sell the cable though (I just "borrowed" some from work :)).

[AUR30N]

..

Edited February 18, 2009 by Azza73

[dave262]

The only benefit you will see going with a grounding wiring upgrade will be seen if you are running the ground from the amps directly to the chassis of the car. If you are running a direct ground line back to the battery, there is no need for this as the car is so new that the condition of the grounding wires will be very good.

Headlights dimming is simply a sign of excessive current draw that the battery and alternator are struggling to cater for. Remember that car manufacturers design the electrical system to simply cope with the stock car requirements and not much more. Upgrading an alternator will help the issue, as will upgrading the battery - although both may be unnecessary for the relatively minimal power of the amps you are talking about (400W RMS is quite small in the scheme of things). If you look at things above about 1000W RMS, then this is where you start becoming really concerned about batteries and alternators and may consider an upgrade.

For your situation, a standard capacitor will help control the power spikes. These spikes (which are causing the dimming of headlights) will eventually damage the alternator and possibly components such as the ECU. The capacitor provides that "reserve" capacity that will be used by the amp during sudden loads, and will recharge when the load from the amp reduces again. Think of it like a water tank really.

[the_random_hero]

The only benefit you will see going with a grounding wiring upgrade will be seen if you are running the ground from the amps directly to the chassis of the car. If you are running a direct ground line back to the battery, there is no need for this as the car is so new that the condition of the grounding wires will be very good.

Headlights dimming is simply a sign of excessive current draw that the battery and alternator are struggling to cater for. Remember that car manufacturers design the electrical system to simply cope with the stock car requirements and not much more. Upgrading an alternator will help the issue, as will upgrading the battery - although both may be unnecessary for the relatively minimal power of the amps you are talking about (400W RMS is quite small in the scheme of things). If you look at things above about 1000W RMS, then this is where you start becoming really concerned about batteries and alternators and may consider an upgrade.

For your situation, a standard capacitor will help control the power spikes. These spikes (which are causing the dimming of headlights) will eventually damage the alternator and possibly components such as the ECU. The capacitor provides that "reserve" capacity that will be used by the amp during sudden loads, and will recharge when the load from the amp reduces again. Think of it like a water tank really.

Honestly, who the hell would run a ground wire back to the battery? There's a reason every single wiring kit on the market only includes about a metre of ground wire. Capacitors don't help solve a bad ground circuit, as they cause the electrical system to draw more current they will often make it worse.

[JIN]

The only benefit you will see going with a grounding wiring upgrade will be seen if you are running the ground from the amps directly to the chassis of the car. If you are running a direct ground line back to the battery, there is no need for this as the car is so new that the condition of the grounding wires will be very good.

Headlights dimming is simply a sign of excessive current draw that the battery and alternator are struggling to cater for. Remember that car manufacturers design the electrical system to simply cope with the stock car requirements and not much more. Upgrading an alternator will help the issue, as will upgrading the battery - although both may be unnecessary for the relatively minimal power of the amps you are talking about (400W RMS is quite small in the scheme of things). If you look at things above about 1000W RMS, then this is where you start becoming really concerned about batteries and alternators and may consider an upgrade.

For your situation, a standard capacitor will help control the power spikes. These spikes (which are causing the dimming of headlights) will eventually damage the alternator and possibly components such as the ECU. The capacitor provides that "reserve" capacity that will be used by the amp during sudden loads, and will recharge when the load from the amp reduces again. Think of it like a water tank really.

Thanks for your input.

Well, I wouldn't say the condition of the grounding is good although it's a new car.

The reason is that I upgraded 2 of engine block ground cables and I saw the ground points were not even sandpapered.

The bolt was just sitting on the thick painted chassis.(you would know what I am trying to say if you know about what the real grounding is.)

From the studying of audio by myself, I found making the ground well is quite important for both sound quality and good electirc flow.

I am not denying the capacitor would solve my problem and I know how the capacitor works with the power spikes so you don't need to explain what the capacitor is..

However, what I want to do is, as explained above, making the ground really strong and good enough to make the electric flow well.

A capacitor with POOR POWER CABLING DOES NOT REALLY MAKE SENSE to me.

Please don't get confused why I am doing the grounding.

Once, the grounding is done,I am installing another amp for front speakers, then I will think about either upgrade the battery or getting the capacitor if my headlights are dimming.

Cheers.

[AUR30N]

The only benefit you will see going with a grounding wiring upgrade will be seen if you are running the ground from the amps directly to the chassis of the car. If you are running a direct ground line back to the battery, there is no need for this as the car is so new that the condition of the grounding wires will be very good.

Headlights dimming is simply a sign of excessive current draw that the battery and alternator are struggling to cater for. Remember that car manufacturers design the electrical system to simply cope with the stock car requirements and not much more. Upgrading an alternator will help the issue, as will upgrading the battery - although both may be unnecessary for the relatively minimal power of the amps you are talking about (400W RMS is quite small in the scheme of things). If you look at things above about 1000W RMS, then this is where you start becoming really concerned about batteries and alternators and may consider an upgrade.

For your situation, a standard capacitor will help control the power spikes. These spikes (which are causing the dimming of headlights) will eventually damage the alternator and possibly components such as the ECU. The capacitor provides that "reserve" capacity that will be used by the amp during sudden loads, and will recharge when the load from the amp reduces again. Think of it like a water tank really.

Thanks for your input.

Well, I wouldn't say the condition of the grounding is good although it's a new car.

The reason is that I upgraded 2 of engine block ground cables and I saw the ground points were not even sandpapered.

The bolt was just sitting on the thick painted chassis.(you would know what I am trying to say if you know about what the real grounding is.)

From the studying of audio by myself, I found making the ground well is quite important for both sound quality and good electirc flow.

I am not denying the capacitor would solve my problem and I know how the capacitor works with the power spikes so you don't need to explain what the capacitor is..

However, what I want to do is, as explained above, making the ground really strong and good enough to make the electric flow well.

A capacitor with POOR POWER CABLING DOES NOT REALLY MAKE SENSE to me.

Please don't get confused why I am doing the grounding.

Once, the grounding is done,I am installing another amp for front speakers, then I will think about either upgrade the battery or getting the capacitor if my headlights are dimming.

Cheers.

Put a second battery in the boot with a cap

Jin you still haven't quoted how big your amps in rms no peak value and brand they are?

Azza73

Azza

Edited February 20, 2009 by Azza73

[JIN]

Put a second battery in the boot with a cap

Jin you still haven't quoted how big your amps in rms no peak value and brand they are?

Azza73

Azza

I already have quoted all my amps and watt just above the picture of terminal.

I don't like the secondary battery idea because I have to get an proper isolator to prevent the first battery getting flat when the car is off.

The isolator itself costs about $100 and I don't think my setup would need that much of battery power.

Cheers.

[DJKOR]

Put a second battery in the boot with a cap

Putting a second battery in will rule out the need for installing a capacitor altogether when it comes to excessive load on the current electrical system.

[AUR30N]

Put a second battery in the boot with a cap

Jin you still haven't quoted how big your amps in rms no peak value and brand they are?

Azza73

Azza

I already have quoted all my amps and watt just above the picture of terminal.

I don't like the secondary battery idea because I have to get an proper isolator to prevent the first battery getting flat when the car is off.

The isolator itself costs about $100 and I don't think my setup would need that much of battery power.

Cheers.

Yes definetley you will need isolator jin but will keeep your amps happy you willk possibly need biiger alternator too then "not sure what amps the standard one pumps out you may get away with it as you don't want your alternator working overtime or it will prematurely fail working hard to charge up all the time. - yup missed that post - what amp rating fuses have you got on each amp i assuming rounghly 50 to 60amps

4awg wire will handle 125 - 150amps

8awg wire will handle 75amps to 100amp

keep in mind too that the longer the run the less amps it will handle. and also remember not all wires have the same copper surface area some are all show and just insulaician hence why there cheap.

Cheers

Edited February 20, 2009 by Azza73

[the_random_hero]

Put a second battery in the boot with a cap

Jin you still haven't quoted how big your amps in rms no peak value and brand they are?

Azza73

Azza

I already have quoted all my amps and watt just above the picture of terminal.

I don't like the secondary battery idea because I have to get an proper isolator to prevent the first battery getting flat when the car is off.

The isolator itself costs about $100 and I don't think my setup would need that much of battery power.

Cheers.

Yes definetley you will need isolator jin but will keeep your amps happy you willk possibly need biiger alternator too then "not sure what amps the standard one pumps out you may get away with it as you don't want your alternator working overtime or it will prematurely fail working hard to charge up all the time. - yup missed that post - what amp rating fuses have you got on each amp i assuming rounghly 50 to 60amps

4awg wire will handle 125 - 150amps

8awg wire will handle 75amps to 100amp

keep in mind too that the longer the run the less amps it will handle. and also remember not all wires have the same copper surface area some are all show and just insulaician hence why there cheap.

Cheers

Honestly, you're beating a dead horse here. He's already said he doesn't want to install a cap, or a second battery (both of which will make his problems worse - second battery, especially in the boot, puts a HUGE strain on the rest of his electrical system).

[DJKOR]

Honestly, you're beating a dead horse here. He's already said he doesn't want to install a cap, or a second battery (both of which will make his problems worse - second battery, especially in the boot, puts a HUGE strain on the rest of his electrical system).

I've just given up on this thread Drew. It has just turned into a mess.

[AUR30N]

Honestly, you're beating a dead horse here. He's already said he doesn't want to install a cap, or a second battery (both of which will make his problems worse - second battery, especially in the boot, puts a HUGE strain on the rest of his electrical system).

I've just given up on this thread Drew. It has just turned into a mess.

So have I Daryl and Drew my pics says it all in my previous post. and if you want me to take more photo's of trophies i can there only 30 of them before they asked me nicely to not enter. since 1998.

not only that i have also designed the demo audio boards for certian store 150 stores oz wide for Sony Australia & kenwood till i lost the tender beaten by 200 000 by mob in newcastle for the next batch.

anyway here is pictures of the board i designed and used it was a double sided with pic micro chip controller that I programmed to operate the board and switch the relay on bounch switch

Azza

Edited February 22, 2009 by Azza73

[AUR30N]

you can alway call the number in the picture to verify or talk businness if you like.

Azza

Edited February 22, 2009 by Azza73