Coilovers for newer corolla's (ZZE122-123)

[Squall0011]

Hey... I was in the market for HARDER suspension and adjust-ability, I was told Coilovers were the only option I had... I was looking at some K-Sport Kontrol's (which are REALLY hard (even with the 36 dampening level adjustments)) for $1350 shipped... But I just wanted to see what else was out there...

Thanks!

[the_random_hero]

For those dollars, don't waste your money. Decent springs + adjustable shock will crap all over cheap coilovers.

[Evo7]

There is a few things to consider when wanting different suspension.

1. How much you have to spend

2. How often will your car see the track?

3. What will make YOU happy ;)

Despite what EVERYONE has/had said, i made my mind up to go something different instead of a 'good spring & shock combo', so i optioned for Coilovers.

The Coilovers i have now are G4 Coilovers, and apparently G4, K-Sport and D2 ALL come out of the same factory (must be a big factory :P)

Spring rates are: 7kg/mm Front, 5kg/mm rear.

I am very happy with my set-up, since i can actually 'feel' the road as i am driving :P

So its up to you, what you want to have/do.

Evo

[Squall0011]

There is a few things to consider when wanting different suspension.

1. How much you have to spend

2. How often will your car see the track?

3. What will make YOU happy ;)

Despite what EVERYONE has/had said, i made my mind up to go something different instead of a 'good spring & shock combo', so i optioned for Coilovers.

The Coilovers i have now are G4 Coilovers, and apparently G4, K-Sport and D2 ALL come out of the same factory (must be a big factory :P)

Spring rates are: 7kg/mm Front, 5kg/mm rear.

I am very happy with my set-up, since i can actually 'feel' the road as i am driving :P

So its up to you, what you want to have/do.

Evo

1. I don't care too much

2. I'd like to start doing track days (Currently I don't)

3. Hard suspension and partial adjustability (height, damper, camber), having the ability to feel what my car is doing all the time, as opposed to newer cars that mask the "essence" of driving (If that makes any sence)

This is the first car I've been able to spend money on, I've decided to choose this one, because I enjoyed driving it stock. Though it's a FF, I see great potential in it... If it gives you any more of an idea, I pre-ordered Forza 3 (collectors) And picked it up 3 min after I was told it broke its release date...

I know it's a game, but in my own opinion, with a steering wheel, it's the closest game I've EVER played to driving a car...

Edited December 14, 2009 by Squall0011

[terryo]

the cheap chinese made coil-overs don't seem to last very long. we have changed/fixed heaps of them at my work. suggest you investigate your options carefully

the adjustability is a bit of a **** unless its a serious track car. you cant keep randomly changing the height on the front, as changes more than a few mm upsets the steering toe-in, so strictly speaking, you need a wheel alignment every change.

the adjustment for damping (rebound) rate is more useful for fine tuning on a track, but mostly useless otherwise. There are well accepted damping rates for each spring rate, so unless you radically alter the spring rate or the unsprung mass , then its only very fine tuning that you are doing. once set, leave it alone.

if you want a "proper" set, then look for those that are bump and rebound adjustable, typically about $1500/corner for real quality stuff

it is for these reasons that most knowledgeable folk with road cars opt for quality shocks and springs, typically about $350-$500/corner. Stick with the big established brands for "performance" shocks like KYB, Koni, Bilstein etc and you wont be disappointed.

[Squall0011]

the cheap chinese made coil-overs don't seem to last very long. we have changed/fixed heaps of them at my work. suggest you investigate your options carefully

the adjustability is a bit of a **** unless its a serious track car. you cant keep randomly changing the height on the front, as changes more than a few mm upsets the steering toe-in, so strictly speaking, you need a wheel alignment every change.

the adjustment for damping (rebound) rate is more useful for fine tuning on a track, but mostly useless otherwise. There are well accepted damping rates for each spring rate, so unless you radically alter the spring rate or the unsprung mass , then its only very fine tuning that you are doing. once set, leave it alone.

if you want a "proper" set, then look for those that are bump and rebound adjustable, typically about $1500/corner for real quality stuff

it is for these reasons that most knowledgeable folk with road cars opt for quality shocks and springs, typically about $350-$500/corner. Stick with the big established brands for "performance" shocks like KYB, Koni, Bilstein etc and you wont be disappointed.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking of changing them after setting them up. and getting a wheel alignment. My friend had K-sport kontrol coilovers for his ST184 Celica, they handled pretty good.

I'm not too sure about the shocks and springs idea. Mainly because, I've got them that's it. I can't change anything about them, Unless I want to buy a second set of springs, and then it may be too low to be legal, so there's the third set of springs bought...

[SuperDave]

My friend had K-sport kontrol coilovers for his ST184 Celica, they handled pretty good.

Handling 'pretty good' and being faster are two different things.

36 stage adjustment is also useless, adjusting 1 click isn't enough to even notice the change. Even if it was enough to notice, the range of adjustment would far exceed the range the dampening/rebound would be matched to the spring.

Suspension setup isn't easy (or cheap). Everyone likes their car to handle different to someone else, then there is all the testing to find out what is faster.

As for what else is out there http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/inde...st&p=201455

[Squall0011]

My friend had K-sport kontrol coilovers for his ST184 Celica, they handled pretty good.

Handling 'pretty good' and being faster are two different things.

36 stage adjustment is also useless, adjusting 1 click isn't enough to even notice the change. Even if it was enough to notice, the range of adjustment would far exceed the range the dampening/rebound would be matched to the spring.

Suspension setup isn't easy (or cheap). Everyone likes their car to handle different to someone else, then there is all the testing to find out what is faster.

As for what else is out there http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/inde...st&p=201455

That's fair enough, what I meant by handled better, was; It stuck to the road like no other car I've ever driven before, I took it far past the limits of the normal suspension and wheel setup in that car would allow, but still it felt like it could take alot more... It was amazingly breath taking, and that's why I suggested K-Sport coilovers.

But in saying that, I am asking for other peoples opinions, I like the idea of adjustablility, Just so if I chose to put a body-kit on my car, Obviously it's going to be lower, So if I got a set of springs and shocks now, I'd have to buy another set of springs, after fitting the body-kit, because chances are it'll be lower than legal, rather than just adjusting the ride height up, then paying for a wheel alignment. - and possibly maybe in the long run, doing some track use.

[Guni]

That's fair enough, what I meant by handled better, was; It stuck to the road like no other car I've ever driven before, I took it far past the limits of the normal suspension and wheel setup in that car would allow, but still it felt like it could take alot more... It was amazingly breath taking, and that's why I suggested K-Sport coilovers.

But in saying that, I am asking for other peoples opinions, I like the idea of adjustablility, Just so if I chose to put a body-kit on my car, Obviously it's going to be lower, So if I got a set of springs and shocks now, I'd have to buy another set of springs, after fitting the body-kit, because chances are it'll be lower than legal, rather than just adjusting the ride height up, then paying for a wheel alignment. - and possibly maybe in the long run, doing some track use.

In my opinion, LSD FTW !!!!

Ultimate handling mod!!!!

All those BS about coilovers + sticky rubbers is BS if you have an open diff ....

Nuff said .... Just Do iT !!!!! baby .... :yahoo: :yahoo:

:P :P :P :P

[Squall0011]

That's fair enough, what I meant by handled better, was; It stuck to the road like no other car I've ever driven before, I took it far past the limits of the normal suspension and wheel setup in that car would allow, but still it felt like it could take alot more... It was amazingly breath taking, and that's why I suggested K-Sport coilovers.

But in saying that, I am asking for other peoples opinions, I like the idea of adjustablility, Just so if I chose to put a body-kit on my car, Obviously it's going to be lower, So if I got a set of springs and shocks now, I'd have to buy another set of springs, after fitting the body-kit, because chances are it'll be lower than legal, rather than just adjusting the ride height up, then paying for a wheel alignment. - and possibly maybe in the long run, doing some track use.

In my opinion, LSD FTW !!!!

Ultimate handling mod!!!!

All those BS about coilovers + sticky rubbers is BS if you have an open diff ....

Nuff said .... Just Do iT !!!!! baby .... :yahoo: :yahoo:

:P :P :P :P

Not to mention, about sticky tires, That's what directionals on big rims, they make all the difference from radials, in any weather.

lol. It's a good idea, but you're not going to WOT around a round about, in street use. Plus you'd get more handling out of Suspension, rather than an LSD... But it's a good idea, and I will keep it in mind B)

Edited December 19, 2009 by Squall0011

[Guni]

It's a good idea, but you're not going to WOT around a round about, in street use

I did once .... bad idea :( ..... then i didn't anymore ...... <_<

Now .....

[Squall0011]

It's a good idea, but you're not going to WOT around a round about, in street use

I did once .... bad idea :( ..... then i didn't anymore ...... <_<

Now .....

Physics of driving :P

It's an FF... It'll under-steer on the throttle... Suggestions; DON'T!

But even so, it's going to under-steer more with a LSD than without, because both wheels are locked together under acceleration, where as with your normal diff, the power looks for the easiest way to get to the road, ie, through the inner tire to the corner...

[and1]

Not to mention, about sticky tires, That's what directionals on big rims, they make all the difference from radials, in any weather.

lol. It's a good idea, but you're not going to WOT around a round about, in street use. Plus you'd get more handling out of Suspension, rather than an LSD... But it's a good idea, and I will keep it in mind B)

Big rims do the opposite to performance and handling. And good tyres don't have to be directional.

Slicks ftw :P lol

Personally I would get Cusco Zero 2s if I had the money..

[SuperDave]

Not to mention, about sticky tires, That's what directionals on big rims, they make all the difference from radials, in any weather.

I don't think you fully understand what a 'radial' tyre is. It's to do with the direction of the ply; radial goes around the tyre (ie. radially), where as in the early days of tyres it went side to side (bias-ply). Directional is in reference to the tread pattern only working in one direction.

Big rims weigh more than smaller rims, as do bigger tyres; so you are increasing the unsprung mass. You also need the sidewall to provide handling, contrary to popular belief low profile tyres have less grip.

The Zero 2 are a great mid range coilover.

[Squall0011]

Not to mention, about sticky tires, That's what directionals on big rims, they make all the difference from radials, in any weather.

lol. It's a good idea, but you're not going to WOT around a round about, in street use. Plus you'd get more handling out of Suspension, rather than an LSD... But it's a good idea, and I will keep it in mind B)

Big rims do the opposite to performance and handling. And good tyres don't have to be directional.

Slicks ftw :P lol

Personally I would get Cusco Zero 2s if I had the money..

Well, big rims actually seem to make all the car's I've owned better, Big compared to stock, that is. And as far as slicks... They're not legal... unfortunatly :(

[Squall0011]

Not to mention, about sticky tires, That's what directionals on big rims, they make all the difference from radials, in any weather.

I don't think you fully understand what a 'radial' tyre is. It's to do with the direction of the ply; radial goes around the tyre (ie. radially), where as in the early days of tyres it went side to side (bias-ply). Directional is in reference to the tread pattern only working in one direction.

Big rims weigh more than smaller rims, as do bigger tyres; so you are increasing the unsprung mass. You also need the sidewall to provide handling, contrary to popular belief low profile tyres have less grip.

The Zero 2 are a great mid range coilover.

But you're not going to be reversing up the highway at 110kmh, Thus affecting the directional tires ability to grip, or aquaplane (if that's even possible) And Directional tires seem to handle better than radials, But they're not available for rims with bigger sidewalls.

What I'm trying to get at is that 15's are too small to put directional tires on, and they'd have a negative affect on handling, but I do agree you can go too big and make the handling worse because of bigger rims...

[Squall0011]

By the way, what's the pre-load settings on the Cusco Zero 2's???

[SuperDave]

But you're not going to be reversing up the highway at 110kmh, Thus affecting the directional tires ability to grip, or aquaplane (if that's even possible) And Directional tires seem to handle better than radials, But they're not available for rims with bigger sidewalls.

What I'm trying to get at is that 15's are too small to put directional tires on, and they'd have a negative affect on handling, but I do agree you can go too big and make the handling worse because of bigger rims...

Never said anyone was. Directional tyres prevent you from doing 4 (or 5) wheel rotations, you can only rotate the wheels on each side.

Directional tyres can be had in 15s, just not easily here as there is no demand.

Look up track tyres and you will see they aren't available in low profile for a reason. The difference between a 16, a 17 and a 15 on the street will be negligible. I compete on 15s and I'm not seeing any loss in handling. But most people buy rims for show, so yes bigger rims do look better and 17s on the Corolla look less awkward than 15s. Don't forget to pay attention to the rim width, which is just as critical to handling as the rest of the specs.

As for you preload question. You want to know how much they compress the spring from the factory? Zero. I think you mean height drop; If I remember correctly its -40mm at the front and -50mm at the back.

[Squall0011]

But you're not going to be reversing up the highway at 110kmh, Thus affecting the directional tires ability to grip, or aquaplane (if that's even possible) And Directional tires seem to handle better than radials, But they're not available for rims with bigger sidewalls.

What I'm trying to get at is that 15's are too small to put directional tires on, and they'd have a negative affect on handling, but I do agree you can go too big and make the handling worse because of bigger rims...

Never said anyone was. Directional tyres prevent you from doing 4 (or 5) wheel rotations, you can only rotate the wheels on each side.

Directional tyres can be had in 15s, just not easily here as there is no demand.

Look up track tyres and you will see they aren't available in low profile for a reason. The difference between a 16, a 17 and a 15 on the street will be negligible. I compete on 15s and I'm not seeing any loss in handling. But most people buy rims for show, so yes bigger rims do look better and 17s on the Corolla look less awkward than 15s. Don't forget to pay attention to the rim width, which is just as critical to handling as the rest of the specs.

As for you preload question. You want to know how much they compress the spring from the factory? Zero. I think you mean height drop; If I remember correctly its -40mm at the front and -50mm at the back.

As far as track tires go, another reason people put bigger rims on their cars, is because the have the ability to go wider, I currently have 7.5's instead of the stock 6, So that's an extra 1.5 inches of tread, although currently the rim itself is 2 inches bigger, It's not a bad idea to have bigger rims on a track car, that way you can fit bigger braking systems in your wheels.

Most of the GT1 GT2 and some GT3 cars run bigger rims than stock* (This is referring to the GT2.GT3 classes)(They usually do fit bigger rims, But not all the time (mostly wider/lighter ones).

But what about those semi light weight rims? you were talking about adding weight. Therefore making your car slower, but if you get a set of rims that weigh the same as your stock rims; its not a bad idea.

[Squall0011]

Look up track tyres and you will see they aren't available in low profile for a reason. The difference between a 16, a 17 and a 15 on the street will be negligible. I compete on 15s and I'm not seeing any loss in handling. But most people buy rims for show, so yes bigger rims do look better and 17s on the Corolla look less awkward than 15s. Don't forget to pay attention to the rim width, which is just as critical to handling as the rest of the specs.

http://www.racegoodyear.com/tires/pdf/EagleRS_09SEP09.pdf

Racing tires that'll fit my 18's and my 17's...

[SuperDave]

Look up track tyres and you will see they aren't available in low profile for a reason.

http://www.racegoodyear.com/tires/pdf/EagleRS_09SEP09.pdf

Racing tires that'll fit my 18's and my 17's...

Your link agrees with what I said. There are no low profile options in that list.

[Guni]

Crack that whip SD!

:lol:

:P :P :P

[eviltwin]

seriously WTF is with people and stupid ideas about wheels , if you want to seriously track the car and thats your interest and purpose spend the money , fit a set of wheels designed for the purpose. If the car is street driven but you want excelent handling buy a set of good tyres for the stock wheels. Coilover wise ive heard nothing but bad things regarding those chinese made items that come in a few different brands.

Edited December 20, 2009 by eviltwin

[Guni]

@ Mick

Told ya they were super dodgy! :P :P :P

[and1]

But you're not going to be reversing up the highway at 110kmh, Thus affecting the directional tires ability to grip, or aquaplane (if that's even possible) And Directional tires seem to handle better than radials, But they're not available for rims with bigger sidewalls.

What I'm trying to get at is that 15's are too small to put directional tires on, and they'd have a negative affect on handling, but I do agree you can go too big and make the handling worse because of bigger rims...

Never said anyone was. Directional tyres prevent you from doing 4 (or 5) wheel rotations, you can only rotate the wheels on each side.

Directional tyres can be had in 15s, just not easily here as there is no demand.

Look up track tyres and you will see they aren't available in low profile for a reason. The difference between a 16, a 17 and a 15 on the street will be negligible. I compete on 15s and I'm not seeing any loss in handling. But most people buy rims for show, so yes bigger rims do look better and 17s on the Corolla look less awkward than 15s. Don't forget to pay attention to the rim width, which is just as critical to handling as the rest of the specs.

As for you preload question. You want to know how much they compress the spring from the factory? Zero. I think you mean height drop; If I remember correctly its -40mm at the front and -50mm at the back.

As far as track tires go, another reason people put bigger rims on their cars, is because the have the ability to go wider, I currently have 7.5's instead of the stock 6, So that's an extra 1.5 inches of tread, although currently the rim itself is 2 inches bigger, It's not a bad idea to have bigger rims on a track car, that way you can fit bigger braking systems in your wheels.

Most of the GT1 GT2 and some GT3 cars run bigger rims than stock* (This is referring to the GT2.GT3 classes)(They usually do fit bigger rims, But not all the time (mostly wider/lighter ones).

But what about those semi light weight rims? you were talking about adding weight. Therefore making your car slower, but if you get a set of rims that weigh the same as your stock rims; its not a bad idea.

I quite confused about what you are trying to say here...

-You don't need to go a larger size to go wider. For example sportivo rims are 16x6. Most aftermarket ones are 16x7. Although you could get a 3 piece to

-I'm pretty sure you can still fit most big brake kits under 16s on the rolla.

-The reason the Carrera Cup cars run larger wheels is because they have upgraded brakes which require them to have larger wheels. It's not that they just wanted to use larger wheels for 'grip'

-No matter how light you make the larger size rim, they smaller version of the rim will always be lighter.

Btw the stock sportivo rim weighs 8-8.5kg. A quality lightweight rim will weigh somewhere between 6-7kg for a 16x7 (which is wider)

Also in regards to tyres. I don't think you understand what radial means still.

Directional, assymetric and conventonal are all terms that describe the tread on the tyre. All these tyres are constructed in a similar way; tyre is constructed about the circumference, not across the width, hence called 'radial'.

My definition sucks lol :(