Camry '97 Overheating

[Martin_W]

Hi Everyone,

I have a Toyota Camry '97 Vienta with 3VZ-FE. It has a tendency to get hot to the verge of overheating while covering long distances. It doesn't loose water nor does it vent through the overflow nor foul the oil so I *think* the head gasket is fine. This condition only presents itself during hot weather (30*C+) and after cruising at 2KRpm+ for around 50Km. I modified the thermostat by cutting off the valve but it still gets hot.

I was able to establish fluid flow whilst starting the engine with the radiator cap removed (with modified thermostat) and was able to observe movement but have no idea how much to expect.

The fan runs fast and loud when getting hot (this is the hydraulically driven variant from the Power Steering pump)

Prior to modification, I tested the thermostat and it opened at 80*C (as expected).

I measured some temperatures around the engine.

Water hose entering the top of the radiator was around 100*C-110*C, whilst water hose exiting the radiator and thermostat housing were at around 90*C. Should I expect more than a 10-20*C temperature differential through the radiator?

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

Martin

[Hiro]

Hi Everyone,

I have a Toyota Camry '97 Vienta with 3VZ-FE. It has a tendency to get hot to the verge of overheating while covering long distances. It doesn't loose water nor does it vent through the overflow nor foul the oil so I *think* the head gasket is fine. This condition only presents itself during hot weather (30*C+) and after cruising at 2KRpm+ for around 50Km. I modified the thermostat by cutting off the valve but it still gets hot.

I was able to establish fluid flow whilst starting the engine with the radiator cap removed (with modified thermostat) and was able to observe movement but have no idea how much to expect.

The fan runs fast and loud when getting hot (this is the hydraulically driven variant from the Power Steering pump)

Prior to modification, I tested the thermostat and it opened at 80*C (as expected).

I measured some temperatures around the engine.

Water hose entering the top of the radiator was around 100*C-110*C, whilst water hose exiting the radiator and thermostat housing were at around 90*C. Should I expect more than a 10-20*C temperature differential through the radiator?

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

Martin

I'd be guessing clogged or blocked radiator - if the thermostat is opening properly, water pump is functioning correctly, no coolant loss and the fan is running correctly then radiator is the most likely culprit.

[Whip Cracker]

Interesting problem... I wouldn't have imagined that you'd be receiving two different temps from either end of the radiator.

Just a couple of easy questions:

- When you take the filler cap off for the radiator fluid, does it still bubble? I mean, even minutely?? If so, keep the car on idle and see if it disappears.

- What are the condition of the filler and radiator caps? Is the rubber in them still good? Did you change them with a lower or higher pressure rating? I believe radiator is 1.1 and filler is 1.0.

Other than that, if the coolant is old and has been diluted... that'll cause problems too.

[Whip Cracker]

I'd be guessing clogged or blocked radiator - if the thermostat is opening properly, water pump is functioning correctly, no coolant loss and the fan is running correctly then radiator is the most likely culprit.

Or... that.

[Martin_W]

I'd be guessing clogged or blocked radiator - if the thermostat is opening properly, water pump is functioning correctly, no coolant loss and the fan is running correctly then radiator is the most likely culprit.

Or... that.

Thanks Guys,

I didn't expect such a quick response!

A little history, about a year ago the head gasket went. I suspect due to the very problem I'm experiencing now. It only happens after prolonged travel on hot days (30+ ambient). At the time it blew, it blew into the water jacket so the oil looked fine, but would start blowing bubbles through the overflow after several KM at any ambient temperature. I inspected the water system for the bubbling you mentioned and yes, it was present, so I replaced the head gasket. Since then, there has been no evidence whatsoever of any overheating or elevated temperatures, untill this summer. At the time of gasket replacemnt, I ordered a genuine filler cap and manifold as the old one was heavily coroded so I have absolute confidence that the assembly is correct. I never touched the radiator pressure cap, only the filler between the rocker covers. The coolant would only have been one year old.

I drove to young a couple of weeks ago and I experienced severe problems with temperatures. I had to pull over a number of times to let it cool. Once there I modified the thermostat as mentioned before and placed new coolant in it.

I just returned from a half hour trip with the radiator flushing solvent in the cooling system. The fan wasn't working anywhere near as hard but it's only around 25 degrees outside. Top hose was around 80* (as expected) and the return hose around 5* cooler. The head temp sensor was sitting at 94*. I'll flush it out and top it up with anti-freeze/boil and see how it goes tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Martin_W

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

From all you say I think it is still a small head gasket leak. There is a cheap test for combustion gas in the coolant. A radiator specialist like one of the Natrad chain can do this for you.

BTW I think it would be unusual if a 97 had the 3VZ engine. I thought that was phased out for the 1MZ in 95?

Cheers

[Martin_W]

Hi,

From all you say I think it is still a small head gasket leak. There is a cheap test for combustion gas in the coolant. A radiator specialist like one of the Natrad chain can do this for you.

BTW I think it would be unusual if a 97 had the 3VZ engine. I thought that was phased out for the 1MZ in 95?

Cheers

Hi,

I was of the same opinion initially (Re the small leak) but if that were the case then it probably would have worsened significantly through out the year through combustion venting and burned the gasket to the point of epic failure. Conversely, it there was a leak, then it would be temperature independent and would eventually pressurise the cooling system to the point of venting into the overflow no matter what the ambient temperature.

It my radiator flush has no effect I'll be looking at a pressure test and the exhaust detection.

The VIN plate indicates 3VZ-FE as does the timing belt cover. It's a 97 camry vienta. Curious...

Thanks,

Martin

Edited January 15, 2010 by Martin_W

[Martin_W]

Hi Guys,

No joy with the flush. The temperature still rose.

There's been a development though. It only rises under load. Sitting stationary at 3K Rpm (after the needle has returned to normal) does not cause the temperature to rise. In a slightly heated state, I measured the top hose at 90*, bottom host at 77* and the head at 104*. After sitting stationary at 3KRpm, the top hose dropped to 86* with the bottom remaining at 77* with the head at 101*.

Bit of a pickle this one. Think it's time for a radiator specialist.

Thanks for all your advice guys.

Martin

[Hiro]

Hi,

From all you say I think it is still a small head gasket leak. There is a cheap test for combustion gas in the coolant. A radiator specialist like one of the Natrad chain can do this for you.

BTW I think it would be unusual if a 97 had the 3VZ engine. I thought that was phased out for the 1MZ in 95?

Cheers

1MZ didn't come in until the Gen4 Camry, which wasn't until late '97 or '98 (can't remember my Camrys that well, but my parent's one is a '96 and they still had the 3VZ back then). You might be getting your dates confused with overseas models (which probably did the switch earlier than us)

[GeoffW1]

Nah, Australian Camrys (should we say Camries?), I pay no attention to Yank Camrys, thats another planet.

So, 1997 eh? Or 1998? Haynes says 1996, but we can't trust them (not always anyway).

Cheers

Edited January 17, 2010 by GeoffW1

[Martin_W]

Nah, Australian Camrys (should we say Camries?), I pay no attention to Yank Camrys, thats another planet.

So, 1997 eh? Or 1998? Haynes says 1996, but we can't trust them (not always anyway).

Cheers

Hiro Protagonist is right.

A simple search in wikipedia found it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Camry

While the vehicle's production lifetime may have been 1991-1996, production continued for another year in Australia.

Quote : "The 3VZ-FE is a smooth running engine that was used on the Camry platform between 1992 and 1997.5 depending on the market"

Unless my car has had an engine refit and VIN's changed, then it's the original engine for an end of production vehicle.

Interestingly though, that the origins of the 3VZ-FE are actually based on a truck engine. I guess that explains the VERY tight fit in the engine bay, and the ridiculous engine tilt making the rear head an absolute nightmare to work on. Want to change your spark plugs or check your compression? Entire throttle and induction assembly comes off...

Martin

Martin

[Hiro]

Nah, Australian Camrys (should we say Camries?), I pay no attention to Yank Camrys, thats another planet.

So, 1997 eh? Or 1998? Haynes says 1996, but we can't trust them (not always anyway).

Cheers

Haynes are American, and thus the dates they cover reflect American model cycles....

[GeoffW1]

Nah, Australian Camrys (should we say Camries?), I pay no attention to Yank Camrys, thats another planet.

So, 1997 eh? Or 1998? Haynes says 1996, but we can't trust them (not always anyway).

Cheers

Haynes are American, and thus the dates they cover reflect American model cycles....

Hi,

No, Haynes are British, but yes, the manual was printed in the USA. No but yes, clear ? I had not noticed that.

The first ever Haynes manual was apparently for the Austin Healey Sprite. I bet they needed it too.

I had a look at the Wikipedia article referenced above (would that tell us specifically about models in Oz?) and it just confused me. It said "An all-new aluminium 1MZ-FE V6 debuted in North American models from 1994, with other markets soon following".

Anyway, I agree with all you have told me, since having it pointed out that my Haynes manual is really for furriners. So I will keep my 3VZ and not swap it for a 1MZ.

Cheers

[Hiro]

Hi,

No, Haynes are British, but yes, the manual was printed in the USA. No but yes, clear ? I had not noticed that.

The first ever Haynes manual was apparently for the Austin Healey Sprite. I bet they needed it too.

I had a look at the Wikipedia article referenced above (would that tell us specifically about models in Oz?) and it just confused me. It said "An all-new aluminium 1MZ-FE V6 debuted in North American models from 1994, with other markets soon following".

Anyway, I agree with all you have told me, since having it pointed out that my Haynes manual is really for furriners. So I will keep my 3VZ and not swap it for a 1MZ.

Cheers

My mistake, but the manuals that crop up here do tend to be the American versions (my Celica Haynes manual is American, for instance).

And remember that a lot of Wikipedia articles are written with an American bias too, which can both annoy and confuse us Antipodeans.

[Whip Cracker]

lol...

To confirm:

Australian Gen 3 Camrys had the 3VZs right from 92 through to 97. There were a few 97 Gen 7s that actually HAD a 1MZ (as I have seen one myself. I doubt that the person would have done an engine transplant due to the fact he knew stuff all about cars). The 1MZs were really only used from 98 onwards in the Gen 4s.

In America, the 3VZs were only used on the 92-93 Camrys. The 1MZs were from 94 through to 97... also following onto the Gen 4s there too.

[Martin_W]

Problem resolved.

I took the radiator out and sent it off to Natrad. It was 90% blocked.

I guess the fact that it only ever got hot under extreme weather conditions, with such a blockage, is a testament to how solid the design of the 3VZ-FE really is.

Martin

[Whip Cracker]

Well... that'd do it!

3VZ's cooling system is quite a solid system... I wish I could say that about their heads though. I know a Radiator workshop bloke in Maroochydore here on the Sunshine Coast and he's never seen the cooling system fail on any Gen 3 V6, or any 3VZ to his knowledge (including the Lexus equivalent too).

[GeoffW1]

Well... that'd do it!

3VZ's cooling system is quite a solid system... I wish I could say that about their heads though. I know a Radiator workshop bloke in Maroochydore here on the Sunshine Coast and he's never seen the cooling system fail on any Gen 3 V6, or any 3VZ to his knowledge (including the Lexus equivalent too).

Hi,

Mine, a 94, developed a crack in the plastic radiator header tank, but that was at about 10-12 years old. Sounds like an isolated thing.

Cheers

[Bigjohn]

Coming in late on this subject, however I had overheating with my Vienta 1997 ( wide body ) which turned out to be both radiator caps failing , resulting in warped heads and $5000 for a replacement motor. I now change the radiator caps every two years. Incidentally , there are different caps for the radiator and the other position near the thermostat , so make sure you get the correct part.

[aem]

So you replaced the motor for $5K?

[Bigjohn]

Yes, $5,000 in total. A mate who runs a Toyota workshop managed to get hold of a motor , and completely reconditioned it . It is apparently nearly impossible to get the heads by themselves. I was going to scrap the car, but I like the Vienta, and its still going strong. I see that others have said about the radiators being blocked , I was told the same thing 4 months before my motor melted, yet they did not mention the radiator caps, or the need to change them every couple of years.