Gear change

[czaja74]

Just wondering if it is normal. Recently I noticed that gear change become more noticable. It was really smooth but now I can exactly feel it more. It happens during normal smooth acceleration. I pointed that out to the dealer and after they checked it they said that there was nothing wrong. I'm sure that it was much smoother before. Is there anything I could do to see if there is a problem or it is me a little to sensitive. On other hand my wife's 2004 camry feels smoother.

Edited February 27, 2010 by czaja74

[DJKOR]

These U660E transmissions seem to be prone to getting issues with gear flare and other shifting related issues. I have noticed on mine that as it approaches the 100,000km mark, my gear changes when pushed hard are starting to get more noticeable on occasion. Like I've noticed when between 50-100% throttle, the change from 2nd to 3rd can be a bit sharper than before.

I just figured this is because I have been too lazy to change my transmission fluid yet. It has been put through quite a bit so I would expect the fluid to be well used by now. I already have the parts to change it, the only thing I'm missing is the fluid. I will be interstate for the next 6-7 weeks, so after that I will sort it all out.

I also use 'S' mode quite a bit so I reckon my gearbox has taken a beating since manually shifting an auto usually isn't the best. I'll see just how tough it is.

[czaja74]

Thanks for the reply. I'm really not happy with it. Also dealer wasnt too helpfull. Also when it shifts down it feels funny. I'll take a car for drive and see how it goes.

Edited February 27, 2010 by czaja74

[DJKOR]

Apparently the seem to say they can fix it with a transmission ECU update. I've also heard that this doesn't really work that well, or only works for a few hundred k's.

[httttt]

Flashed ECU certainly smoothed out the gear changes for a few thousand K's and instead of flaring it seems to force the gear in causing a kicking feeling.

Try resetting the ECU by disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes. This seems to smooth out the gear changes for a few thousand K's again (For me anyways).

[Silver-Aurion]

Yep, I can DEFINITELY say I can notice gear change on second and third, its not an instant or smooth transition. When normally accelerating, the car rev's up a bit then finally decides to change gears, NOT that bad but gear change is not smooth as the car needs to rev up a bit before it decides to change gears.

Oh by the way, I did ask my dealer and his response in exact words...

"It's because its drive by wire, that is normal"

Not sure how much to believe him when he says its normal... <_<

Anyone think he is bluffing?

[czaja74]

I'll call Toyota next week and see what they will have to say about it. It really annoys me. It is quite bad in the morning when it shifts from 2-3 or 3-4 (sometimes both). Sometimes car revs up and changes a gear when other time it is just really noticeable. Our Altise 04 feels much smoother than this. I'll make few calls tomorrow and then back to dealer.

I don’t think it is normal. Most of the recent Toyotas are promoted as a smooth gear change (or something like that) and what I'm experiencing is definitely not smooth.

I dont understand dealers position. They get a customer and the job, fix the problem and get paid from Toyota. Just doesn’t make sense........

EDIT:

The Drive By Wire system works by replacing the conventional throttle control system. Instead of relying on a mechanical cable that winds from the back of the accelerator pedal, through the vehicle firewall and onto the throttle body, Drive by Wire consists of a sophisticated pedal position sensor that closely tracks the position of the accelerator and sends this information to the Engine Control Module (ECM). This is superior to a cable operated throttle system for the following reasons:

• Drive by Wire greatly reduces the number of moving parts in the throttle system. This means greater accuracy, reduced weight and, theoretically, no service requirements (like oiling and adjusting the throttle-cable).

• The greater accuracy not only improves the driving experience (increased responsiveness and consistent pedal feel regardless of outside temperature or pedal position, but it allows the throttle position to be tied closely into ECU information like fuel pressure, engine temperature and exhaust gas re-circulation. This means improved fuel economy and power delivery as well as reduced exhaust emissions.

• With the pedal inputs reduced to a series of electronic signals, it becomes a simple matter to integrate a vehicle’s throttle with non-engine specific items like ABS, gear selection (on Alfa Romeo’s and other fully electronic gear shift vehicles) and traction control. This increases the effectiveness of these systems while further reducing the amount of moving parts, service requirements and vehicle weight.

Edited February 28, 2010 by czaja74

[Silver-Aurion]

Hmm, interesting stuff there. Good info.

[tekkyy]

similar to the OP I get it from soft acceleration (not when pushed hard)

I noticed it very early, 2000km

unsmooth gear change from 2nd to 3rd around 45km/h

it seems like the revs jump up a little and then we shift into next gear

[Adamsy]

After experiencing smiler things to what others have describe here and after having the gearbox what can on be described as "locking" itself into 2nd whilst in Drive i had the A/T fluid changed and the transmission is as precise and smooth as it was when i first picked up the car, so guys get it done at your next service. i will continue to monitor my car and if the flaring continues or if it still does random things I’ll get the updated Trannie ECU put in.

[Silver-Aurion]

Hmm, well I guess I need to wait for the 100,000K service when I'll be doing a major service of replacing every fluid and oil in the car. At the moment I'm on 60K and just doing the minor service at Toyota like sparks, oil etc.

[Adamsy]

mmm another 40,000kms is a long time to wait, i'd suggest maybe taking your car in and getting them to change your fluid over now, you willl notice a difference. Your dealer shouldnt have a problem with doing this, well i'd like to think not anyways

[Silver-Aurion]

Haha, shell be right mate. I really don't want to spend the money. I know it will be a good thing to do but even in the manual it states it can go way over 100,000KM without oil change.

So if anything happens I still got another 3 years warranty :P

[Adamsy]

Unique:

mate if your car is still under warranty then having it replaced should be free?

[Silver-Aurion]

Unique:

mate if your car is still under warranty then having it replaced should be free?

I would have been out of warranty but I got extended warranty for another 150,000K or 3 years (which ever comes first)

AND I did ask my dealer, if you scroll up you will see what they said.

But to fast track it here is the post:

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/inde...st&p=379659

[Silver-Aurion]

similar to the OP I get it from soft acceleration (not when pushed hard)

I noticed it very early, 2000km

unsmooth gear change from 2nd to 3rd around 45km/h

it seems like the revs jump up a little and then we shift into next gear

Yeah, your explanation is better then mine. That symptom describes exactly how/when changes.

As I said, the dealer said its because its drive by wire. Sounds plausible but is it really? Still no one here answered that question, lol.

[danja]

Transmission servicing must be one of the most neglected areas of vehicle maintenance - out of sight and out of mind for most people I guess.

Don't skimp on it guys, for about $120 every 12-18 months, you'd be crazy not to do it, especially on an auto box. I've seen more auto boxes than I care to count die simply because they had 4 or 5 year old fluid in them. To compound the problem, more and more transmissions are being specified as "sealed for life" so they don't even get a mention in the factory maintenance schedule. I've seen more than a few of these make it just out of warranty and die on their ****s.

A rebuilding or replacing a dead box will usually cost you anywhere from $2,000 to $5,000 depending on the model. Change your fluid - it's really is worth it!

[Silver-Aurion]

$120? Is that for the Toyota dealer? If its that much I'll definitely get it done. I was thinking more of the lines of $300 because dealers are thieves when it comes to this stuff :(

Edit: Even if I did it myself, would I void warranty? Like how would Toyota know that I need to change its oil or changed it myself?

Edited March 1, 2010 by unique

[danja]

$120? Is that for the Toyota dealer? If its that much I'll definitely get it done. I was thinking more of the lines of $300 because dealers are thieves when it comes to this stuff :(

Edit: Even if I did it myself, would I void warranty? Like how would Toyota know that I need to change its oil or changed it myself?

$120 is about what you'll pay for a transmission shop to do a "standard" transmission service, which is changing the fluid and a new filter. Generally the torque converter will retain a litre or two of fluid, and you'll need to pay for a flush if you want the whole lot done, but if you're getting it done every year or two you should be fine unless you're doing mega-kms.

YMMV regarding price, but in my experience that's a good ball-park figure to work off. I can't speak for a dealer, though it probably would be more - can't say I've ever found a dealership service department I'd describe as cheap, can't hurt to ask though.

If you're mechanically inclined they usually aren't terribly hard to do yourself, and you can probably save a few bucks that way.

Edit: Unless you did something very silly like put the wrong fluid in, or forget to fill it up at all and drive around, I can't forsee any real issues with DIY. They only way they'd probably know is if they had reason to drain the fluid, and saw it was new, and even then it would be bizarre to say "Hey your gearbox fluid is too new so we're voiding your warranty"?! If you're concerned you could query it with Toyota.

Another edit: In case anyone wants a bit more convincing, here is a comparison of some new and some used (after about 75,000km) transmission fluid (from a manual box actually, but it runs ATF fluid). No prizes for guessing which is which.. yes they were both the same colour at one point.

Edited March 1, 2010 by danja

[Silver-Aurion]

Wow, big difference. Thank you heaps for the info. It really helps me learn more :)

[SCOOTA44]

After experiencing smiler things to what others have describe here and after having the gearbox what can on be described as "locking" itself into 2nd whilst in Drive i had the A/T fluid changed and the transmission is as precise and smooth as it was when i first picked up the car, so guys get it done at your next service. i will continue to monitor my car and if the flaring continues or if it still does random things I’ll get the updated Trannie ECU put in.

If you still got warranty, try for the update ecu, worked for me.

[czaja74]

This is rubbish! I took a car to the dealer and was told that they couldnt find anything wrong with it. I know that there is something wrong. Normaly I cant notice gear change but other times is quite noticable. What will be the best wa to aproache the dealer? Maybe I should take it up with toyota directly. It is just under an hour drive to Laverton.... Any suggestion will be appreciated.

[Silver-Aurion]

This is rubbish! I took a car to the dealer and was told that they couldnt find anything wrong with it. I know that there is something wrong. Normaly I cant notice gear change but other times is quite noticable. What will be the best wa to aproache the dealer? Maybe I should take it up with toyota directly. It is just under an hour drive to Laverton.... Any suggestion will be appreciated.

Call Toyota directly. You can get the number from the www.toyota.com.au site. On a pamphlet I have for my warranty, it says if you are unhappy with the service or outcome from the dealer after asking something for warranty to call Toyota and discuss it with them.

I would love to get the CPU update, but besides "fixing' the transmission issue, did it fix anything else?

[SCOOTA44]

These U660E transmissions seem to be prone to getting issues with gear flare and other shifting related issues. I have noticed on mine that as it approaches the 100,000km mark, my gear changes when pushed hard are starting to get more noticeable on occasion. Like I've noticed when between 50-100% throttle, the change from 2nd to 3rd can be a bit sharper than before.

I just figured this is because I have been too lazy to change my transmission fluid yet. It has been put through quite a bit so I would expect the fluid to be well used by now. I already have the parts to change it, the only thing I'm missing is the fluid. I will be interstate for the next 6-7 weeks, so after that I will sort it all out.

I also use 'S' mode quite a bit so I reckon my gearbox has taken a beating since manually shifting an auto usually isn't the best. I'll see just how tough it is.

was this gear change noticable before you put on the SRI ? I have noticed a difference in the way it changes with mine, almost a quick flick 2nd to 3rd, its settled down now I have got the SRI the right length.

[DJKOR]

was this gear change noticable before you put on the SRI ? I have noticed a difference in the way it changes with mine, almost a quick flick 2nd to 3rd, its settled down now I have got the SRI the right length.

Nah. Mine was after one particular Nebo run. My transmission fluid in that gearbox would have gone through quite a life. I think the 90,000km ATF service interval for severe conditions would be about correct. I have a new ATF strainer and gasket at home now read for a change.. but I guess that can now go into the cupboard.