xoom

Force feeding your corolla - have a read

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Hi guys,

i seem to get several pm's a week regarding force feeding a sportivo and usually i respond through pm's but figured i would do a write up that could benefit the wider community.

Now before i dig into this i want to highlight a couple of things:

1) all the prices, parts lists, recommendations etc are all based on my personal experience and are really up to the individual and so the prices could change which changes the outcome etc etc also ive taken a stab at conversion rates so my totals might not totally be right but ull get the ball park figures

2) Im not using this post as a self promotion, show off post because ive copped that crap before as well as just to clarify because i have had these acusations before ..... i am not parent spoon fed ..... or rich ... etc etc .... i collected parts for 3-4 years and took 1-2 years to do the whole build .... i lived with my parents and worked 2 jobs so dispensible income was the call of funding all this.

3) this is not to turn people off or anything like that but just to give ppl info so they can go in eyes wide open before they start something thats a bit over their heads.

4) all pricing i have pulled off the monkey wrench racing website and other simple google searchs so anyone can go and validate it themselves .... i have not taken into account duty, gst, shipping etc so dont forget to add this as it could account for and extra 25% of the total

Ok in most of the pm's i get i usually get the following criteria as a requirement so i will base this thread on that recommendation:

1) as much power as possible

2) be able to surprise v8's, evo's, rexy's etc on the track / drags

3) be streetable

4) be reliable

now based on this lets get started with some straight forward parts to meet this need

injectors $350

fuel rail $400

fuel pressure reg $200

fuel pump $160

LSD $1,600

clutch $450

flywheel $500

oil pump gear upgrade $350

arp head studs $230

arp header studs $100

arp main studs $120

arp flywheel bolts $50

rod bearing set $130

rods $850

low comp pistons & rings $750

sleeves $400

IM gasket $75

engine gasket kit $275

valve springs & retainers $400

valves $350

power FC $1,500

oil catch can $250

BOV $250

boost controller $400

turbo $1,500

TOTAL $11640

Now even if my exchange rate is not right or u could source some of this stuff cheaper by being picky/haggling etc you will notice that you have spent atleast $10K just on parts .... u havent even picked up a tool or go the kit under way.

Other aspects that still need to be covered is all the labour to get all the above stuff installed, all the fabrication on the intake side i.e. front mount intercooler + piping + filter etc etc and all the fabrication on the exhaust side i.e. manifold + dump pipe + high flow cat + the rest of the exhaust. Would also need to think about all the machine shop work that would need to be performed e.g. port and polishing the head, balancing the engine etc + dyno time and tuning ..... All this depending on whether you know ppl in the industry could seriously set you back in excess of $15K - $20K as well.

Added to this are whether you also want to provide any supporting mods e.g. bigger brakes, coilovers, gauges, wheels, tyres etc etc all these are to your fancy but i would highly recommend them otherwise your car will have all this power and issues getting a2b. Again depending on choices you could easily push $5k-$10k here

As i will tell you with a conversion like this then there are the head f#$#ks ...... trust me there will be times or rework, re-trying, multiple attempts etc which would have their associated $ figure also attached. so a nice little side lump sum of $5K minimum would come in handy

There are also probably so many other small bits & pieces that ive either forgotten due to so much work needing to be done to get this done ...... one example are simple fittings and lines ..... costly stuff when you have to get a few of them ..... if u have ever bought speedflow gear u will know what i mean

If people now see this as being way to much commitment and would prefer a small bang for buck approach obviously you could refrain from cracking open the engine which will save $'s ...... also you could choose to go down the supercharger path where off the shelf kits are readily available which require little mods to get them running once again costing less $'s. But as per the requirements you will need to forgo the need to pushing big numbers or crapping on other performance cars ...... yes this approach will net u one quick sportivo but munching big performers it wont ......

i should also mention that all of this will come attached with some long periods of down time .... i.e. u not having the car on the road ..... unless ofcourse u pour more money into this and u build everything on a 2nd engine, 2nd setup etc to pop it straight in but again added $'s ..... to achieve my setup i had 3 lots of 3-4 mths worth of down time i.e. 9-12mths in total not being on the road ..... another thing to think about if its ur primary form of transport.

I hope i have given enough info and insight that will help those that have pm'd me and those who have thought about this.

cheers

Bill

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Where abouts are these off the shelf supercharger kits, and are they completely off the shelf in regards to ecu and such?

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Where abouts are these off the shelf supercharger kits, and are they completely off the shelf in regards to ecu and such?

Let me quantify wat I mean by off the shelf. Its packaged up and actually fits ....that's it. I should highlight no one anywhere in the world sells a 100% plug n play performance kit for a rhd 2zz rolla. So if ur not prepared to do any r&d. DON'T modify this car. Trade up to an evo or rexy etc the market just isn't big enough for such a product to be available.

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Where abouts are these off the shelf supercharger kits, and are they completely off the shelf in regards to ecu and such?

If u talk about an off the shelf supercharger kits, the only one with the ecu included for 2zz will be the Greddy/Trust supercharger kit

but many would choose the blitz supercharger instead cos some ppl said is better even u need to get a ecu seperately

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The Blitz kit does come with a ECU, but it's useless because it can't be adjusted.

The GReddy kit has a habit of breaking the alternator bracket (as it relocates it). And the idler pulley is a bit budget and wears out quickly. BOE make stronger replacements http://www.boefabrication.com/products.aspx

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A more sensible person would of traded to a better car, but who wants to be sensible anyway..

I'm trying to go down the path of not opening an engine..don't want to know the cost...

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A more sensible person would of traded to a better car, but who wants to be sensible anyway..

I'm trying to go down the path of not opening an engine..don't want to know the cost...

not me ...... lol ..... yeah but like we have just discussed it comes at a cost .......

u'll obviously just be limited by how much boost and power u can run without cracking it open ..... wat are u aiming for bcuz it might just be fine depending on ur goals ?

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u'll obviously just be limited by how much boost and power u can run without cracking it open ..... wat are u aiming for bcuz it might just be fine depending on ur goals ?

say you just wanna run a turbo without opening it up, what PSI is safe? just to give it that extra bit ya know...

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Good to see you put the catch can in there mate cause I do remember the phone call LOL :P

Plus don't forget knwowing people who can give you info on technical stuff and give it to you for free. A lot of places won't give info unless you are paying for them to do the work. Bill is lucky he had Sportivo Central on his speed dial quite a few times ;) ;)

CES did a turbo conversion on a 2ZZ sportivo drive in drive out type of deal. Cost the guy roughly $16.5K and that was with no brake upgrade or gearbox upgrade.

Making a lil more power than Xoom's car it wasn't long till gearbox was broken and then brakes were very worn out in a short space of time. Then the moron simply belted the ******* out it for 3 months without checking anything and did some engine damage due to low oil level(turbo cars suffer with a lil oil usage) and bought it back to CES to fix. that was gonna cost him another $7.5K to repair cause the block was damaged.

So unless you have at least $25k to waste then don't bother cause short cutting on some things will come back to bite you in a very big way.

Nice write up Xoom!! Also saves me answering a few PM's as well..... :D

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u'll obviously just be limited by how much boost and power u can run without cracking it open ..... wat are u aiming for bcuz it might just be fine depending on ur goals ?

say you just wanna run a turbo without opening it up, what PSI is safe? just to give it that extra bit ya know...

ahhhh i knew this question would eventually come up ..... in short the psi figure is irrelevant ...... its more about how much power ur pushing ...... read this write up for more detail

http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=243977

no point in re-writing this here especially since the internet is about spreading info right ;)

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A more sensible person would of traded to a better car, but who wants to be sensible anyway..

I'm trying to go down the path of not opening an engine..don't want to know the cost...

not me ...... lol ..... yeah but like we have just discussed it comes at a cost .......

u'll obviously just be limited by how much boost and power u can run without cracking it open ..... wat are u aiming for bcuz it might just be fine depending on ur goals ?

Well I'm just hoping for maybe a 30-40kw boost at the wheels, so bring it up to around about 150-160kwkw.

I reckon that could be easily achieved at low boost level of around 6psi which should be ok. The ppl over at newcelica are saying that 10psi is the upper limit, does come down to the tuning of course.

If I wanted more power, I'll start modding the forester instead :lol:

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A more sensible person would of traded to a better car, but who wants to be sensible anyway..

I'm trying to go down the path of not opening an engine..don't want to know the cost...

not me ...... lol ..... yeah but like we have just discussed it comes at a cost .......

u'll obviously just be limited by how much boost and power u can run without cracking it open ..... wat are u aiming for bcuz it might just be fine depending on ur goals ?

Well I'm just hoping for maybe a 30-40kw boost at the wheels, so bring it up to around about 150-160kwkw.

I reckon that could be easily achieved at low boost level of around 6psi which should be ok. The ppl over at newcelica are saying that 10psi is the upper limit, does come down to the tuning of course.

If I wanted more power, I'll start modding the forester instead :lol:

wat snail r u thinking of using ? r u thinking of the GT28RS since ur not hunting for huge numbers ?

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I am thinking of using an IHI turbo, one of the vF series, leaning towards a VF24 I think. But maybw I'll get a VF34 to dummy fit it all in to place.

If its a garett then definitely a GT28RS

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Good job Bill... I'm going to refer all those that want to turbo their 2zz to this thread.

I have a little bit info for those that want to turbo their 2zz corolla/celica without opening the engine/gearbox since I've been through that stage and pushing where most wouldn't. So this might be a good indication for those "extreme" cases.

Cost-wise: Around the same as Bill has mentioned minus the engine internals parts (roughly 10-12k).

Power-wise: Will be determine on how much you want to spend, and how much you can afford to spend when things go wrong. Anything from 140-200kw is possible (if your looking to make less than 140, think about s/c).

I'm pushing the 2zz-ge to it's limits, and the majority of built 2zz boys (smaay, boosted etc.) say it's not safe. It isn't. Safe power-level are discussed in the link bill posted (keeping in mind USA dyno read higher than Aus dyno's).

But I believe the 2zz-ge is a decent engine, it just depends on how well your setup is which will determine it's life, which means $$$. My setup is a little bit overkill, but it makes running this much power possible and "safe". Last dyno'd the celica was making 206kw atw - 12.8@114mph. Been running at this power level for about a year. Before that the celica was putting 180kw atw - 13.2 @ 106mph for nearly a year.

So it's possible to have "power". Every bit adds up in the hunt for power... I wouldn't even think to push the engine if it didn't have a "good quality" setup. Be prepared to check/maintain the engine on a weekly basis, chuck it on dyno to check fuel/knock levels regularly etc.

My opinion is to set a goal. And seek out a turbo that can do that comfortably at relatively low boost levels. And do that at lowest boost pressure possible. ie. Have all supporting mods that aid in making the power easily: free-flowing exhaust, standalone ecu, larger injectors.. If your just searching for 160kw then a GT2871r would be ideal. 200kw+ Gt3071r/GT30r... And then you'll have room to move when you build the engine, which will definately be required down the track.

Last... Research. I asked Bill alot of questions before I started my build. Thanks Bill!!

Edited by 51EKA

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once you start the spending it NEVER stops and you can take my word for it .

This is very true... even on a much more low budget build (eg. my celi) you allways seem to find something else that breaks or needs upgrading :(

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Just a question, Aren't BoV's illegal in NSW? and how hard would installing a wastegate be?

BOV's arent illegal in NSW .... what is illegal is if u have a BOV that vents to the environment i.e. it releases the air pressure into ur engine bay rather than re-circulating it into ur air filter pipe.

There are 3 types of BOV's on the market

1) full release to the environment - these are illegal

2) release adjustable (the most expensive of the 3 e.g http://www.gfb.com.au/vmchk/deceptor-pro) but i still believe these are illegal as they vent to the environment. U can also get some that plumback and vent - turbosmart makes them but again any environment venting would be illegal

3) plumback (i.e. plumbed back into your intake) - these are legal and its wat i have. I have the turbosmart kompact series which is small and black and when looking at it doesnt draw attention to it ..... however when i build boost u still hear the venting sound pretty loudly because it echo's out of the air filter.

also regarding the wastegate all turbo's have to have a wastegate of some sort either internal or external ..... as its name states its to get ride of the wasted exhaust gases that u dont need as u dont need to build any more boost ..... otherwise if u kept boosting ud kill ur turbo and ur car. So it isnt a matter of how hard to install one but a matter of which to go for. Interally gated tends to be the case with a lot of smaller turbo applications and by smaller i also include my setup in that ...... internal wastegates have their limitations in being able to avoid boost creep when there is a lot of flow hence why a lot of larger turbo setups externally gate ..... the catch is if ur internally gated the wastegate is attached to the turbo and there is nothing else required other than having the dump pipe built to flange the turbo and wastegate output ..... if ur gonna gate externally then the turbo manifold needs to be modified to feed the external gate and the plumbing is a little different ..... i dont think its worth externally gating our rollas. This pdf will show u wat i mean http://www.tialmedia.com/documents/w3_tial_wginstall.pdf

The other part is if u externally gate u could also vent to the environment i.e. release the gases rather than plumbing them in. This also creates one of those lovely sounds that car hoons love but yeah its also illegal .... and internally gated setup basically releases the gases into ur exhaust and hance exists out through ur muffler

hopefully that clarifies things

the flap on the right is the internal wastegate .... this is the exhaust side of the turbo

turbo3.jpg

its controlled by an actuator thats connected to ur boost controller .... the bit below the turbo in this pic

turbo2.jpg

split pulse dump pipe - the semi circle arc is to not disturb the air flow out of the turbo. the small hole is the release for the wastegate and the larger hole is the release from the turbo. both merge further down the dump pipe away from the turbo to avoid a pulse of air fitting the turbine blade causing unnecessary back pressure

25012007_001.jpg

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hey was just wondering what sized fuel injectors to use for FI before its overkill ?

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hey was just wondering what sized fuel injectors to use for FI before its overkill ?

Depends on how much power you're making/want.

1500cc/min is a bit over the top if you only want 200wkW :P

Don't forget the fuel pump will need replacing around the 150wkW mark.

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hey was just wondering what sized fuel injectors to use for FI before its overkill ?

Depends on how much power you're making/want.

1500cc/min is a bit over the top if you only want 200wkW :P

Don't forget the fuel pump will need replacing around the 150wkW mark.

was wanting to SC it eventually and not sure if i should install mwr fuel rails, walbro fuel pump and injectors before SC. prolly looking @ 650cc from memory.

Edited by cypher

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I know this is an old thread, but I've been doing some searching and can't find any info. The original post mentioned a supercharger kit from Greddy/Trust or Blitz. I've tried finding these online for my Sportivo but can't seem to get anywhere. I realise the post was from 2007 so they may not be in production anymore.

Does anyone know where I can purchase a supercharger kit like the one that was mentioned??

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Blitz I believe ceased manufacturing a few years back .... U can still source the GReddy e.g. http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=600 however I preferred the blitz because it was intercooled and had a clutch type mechanism to kinda emulate switching off the charger.

Ur other option is to get something like a rotrex which is a generic supercharger but yeah then it's not really a kit ..... Keep in mind most of this stuff is built for the celica and the only kit I saw that was for the corolla was the blitz .... So there is still going to be a bit of fiddling to get it all going.

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Just adding some more info based on a PM I recently sent

The guy that made my manifold is no longer in business and hasnt been for a few years ... he was based over in europe.

The only other approach for another forum member i helped and he was running the stafford manifold and i also think they are no longer in business either .... i also think he removed the power steering

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/24970-fs-2zz-ge-turbo-kit/

Now regarding the manifold ur best bet is to get one custom built ..... getting a mainfold to fit behind the engine is going to be extremely tight .... the best way for u is going to be doing a remote mount over the gearbox like this setup

http://newcelica.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5573427&postcount=30

Here's a few RHD turbo conversion thread:

http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=292308

http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=320417

How u can get power steering back if it needs to be sacrificed:

http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=265976

Ur other bet is to s/c it rather than turbo:

http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=301207

http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=237902 (this one is now in NSW driven by lylee)

this looks promising:

http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=312981 check out post #10 or linked below

http://newcelica.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4954086&postcount=10

Mate as you can see from some searching i came up with sooooo much information ..... u really need to spend time researching before u spend a single cent ..... i'd suggest ringing the turbokits guys in the US and see what they have to say .... they claim on newcelica that it should fit a RHD but personally i dont have experience with it.

This is also a good read ..... One of the guys running the turbokits setup on a RHD celica.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3156850/1999-toyota-celica/

Hopefully all this is enough to get u started.

cheers

Bill

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