Transmission Gone?????

[SCOOTA44]

I am back home without the car :( they rang me ( co-op) while on the bus to town that the freight had run late and they might not get it finished today. anyway while pacing the city I rang back at 5pm they said they would ring back, waited till 5.30 got the answering machine. so stuck without my baby till god knows.

[SCOOTA44]

here it is monday after 11 am still no call, rang them before 10am to see if the trans job will be finished today, the rep i was dealing with was not at his desk, so they will get him to ring straight away.............cant hear the phone ringing.GRRRRRR

[N3ptuNe]

Great! Just another thing to worry about when she's done over 200K done 100K already so better start saving :P

Never buy an Aussie car again! next is EVO 9 MR :)

[SCOOTA44]

My faith is being seriously tested, today's edition: new transmission installed taken for its first test run, now being removed as it has a faulty front seal ( not CO-OP's fault) got to wait for a new seal, put it back together try again. where was quality control from toyota factory ???? sorry for the rant, but im going broke.

[phantompisser]

After reading this i thought I'd get the transmission flushed . Rang 3 closest Toyota dealers for quotes and was given $220 , $265 and $310 . Double checked it was for a flush and correct toyota fluid .

Really pays to shop around for everything these days .

[SCOOTA44]

After reading this i thought I'd get the transmission flushed . Rang 3 closest Toyota dealers for quotes and was given $220 , $265 and $310 . Double checked it was for a flush and correct toyota fluid .

Really pays to shop around for everything these days .

it certainly does,i only had mine done 60k before it let go. a dealer will always use the correct fluid. i dont have any choices down here. fatasman was doing his every 70k same sort of work as me ( taxi ) and he had one fail. by all means get it done.

[GSV40R]

i dont want to point fingers but didnt they fit the torque convertor to the auto ???. damaged seal you say..

as for the 10 grand , i think a project could be in order.. joking of course ...

kluger auto /transaxle and transfer , tailshaft and rear diff ----- 4wd aurion taaadaaaa !!!!!

[SCOOTA44]

i dont want to point fingers but didnt they fit the torque convertor to the auto ???. damaged seal you say..

as for the 10 grand , i think a project could be in order.. joking of course ...

kluger auto /transaxle and transfer , tailshaft and rear diff ----- 4wd aurion taaadaaaa !!!!!

why bloody not, still need manual though.

[Adamsy]

yeah all parts are quality checked before leaving factory and many parts even have a check list in with them that’s gets ticked off before final packaging. Sounds more like human installer error but I’m sure they’ll fix it up quick smart tomorrow chief :)

[SCOOTA44]

yeah all parts are quality checked before leaving factory and many parts even have a check list in with them that’s gets ticked off before final packaging. Sounds more like human installer error but I’m sure they’ll fix it up quick smart tomorrow chief :)

They need to, but not holding my breath,but only wondering , could i have more time off. :-(

[Adamsy]

ouch yeah time off really starting to hurt hay? & yeah i wont say too much lol but they should have it sorted for you tomorrow one would think. reminds me i never got time to return there call down there lol <_<

[DJKOR]

Just speaking my mind so mind me if it sounds a bit far-fetched. All this mention of stuffed gearboxes, and I keep hearing "changed fluid regularly, etc". Now remember how Toyota called this thing a sealed system and you shouldn't have to change the fluid for the life of the car?? What if, and it goes against all logic, not changing the fluid is better for the box.

I know it sounds stupid, but it's just one of those crazy thoughts I have.

[Adamsy]

Just speaking my mind so mind me if it sounds a bit far-fetched. All this mention of stuffed gearboxes, and I keep hearing "changed fluid regularly, etc". Now remember how Toyota called this thing a sealed system and you shouldn't have to change the fluid for the life of the car?? What if, and it goes against all logic, not changing the fluid is better for the box.

I know it sounds stupid, but it's just one of those crazy thoughts I have.

mmm Guess stranger things have happened lol

[Steven]

a way to figure that is figure out how the transmission's have failed. It seems odd to me that Toyota would do oil-changes on the gearbox if they knew it would degrade it's lifespan (which they would technically know as they're the ones who labelled it sealed for life)

I have several theories as to how changing the oil MIGHT cause a shorter life, along the lines of liquid saturation points (level where a liquid ie oil no longer absorbs minute particles and hence as a result stops "wearing" away the gearbox from the inside out)

Why does oil turn black? Basically because it absorbs contaminants, degrades due to the heating/cooling cycling and basically breaks down. If, in a completely sealed system which does NOT get as hot as engine oil (and the oil is specially designed for this purpose), then the amount of contaminants should be minimal and wear on the internal components only proceeds to a certain degree (negatively exponential degradation. Degrades less over time as the oil becomes more saturated).

Now if you replace the oil, suddenly every "now-already-worn" component is being "attacked" anew by oil that is readily able to absorb particles and hence as a result the components wear faster again and possibly fail.

This is a just a theory fueled entirely by half a bottle of scotch and a random experiment on how sweet I could make my coffee. Feel free to beat me down with actual science

[fatsatman]

My faith is being seriously tested, today's edition: new transmission installed taken for its first test run, now being removed as it has a faulty front seal ( not CO-OP's fault) got to wait for a new seal, put it back together try again. where was quality control from toyota factory ???? sorry for the rant, but im going broke.

this does sound a little strange , the second handy i put in hasnt leaked a drop and it came from the wrecker with a rag shoved in the torque converter and it was seperated .any idea what theyre charging for labour alone? it should take 9 hours labour start to finish,,,btw for those who r unaware,, this requires the whole engine to be removed.cant change tranny with removing the whole assembly

FAT

[SCOOTA44]

fortunately they are not charging extra, I guess they will charge it to toyota australia, maybe DJKOR ans Steve are on to something,anyway will wait for the post mortem. and yes the engine has to come out too, unlike the previous camry so much more labour intensive.

[SCOOTA44]

Wednesday day 4 of the drama, still waiting for the call, or can something else go wrong? just want my cab back, get back to work.

[Adamsy]

have you not got it back yet?..... geejuz!

[phantompisser]

Went in to get the transmission flush today . Dropped the car off , pulled into the pub carpark (mate followed me down) and the mobile rings .

Service guy : Just calling to let you know that your transmission is a sealed for life unit and doesn't need to be flushed ... We can do it but it takes 20L of really expensive oil .

Me : No worries I'll have a beer and come pick it up .

WTF , I rang 3 service centers and wasn't told this . Obviously it was never going to get done for $210 . And 20L seems highly unlikely for a transmission .

Very last time I ever use a dumbass Toyota service center ever . These are the people that are supposed to know what they are doing ?

They charge top dollar and apparently don't have a clue . This isn't some on , off , on again hard to diagnose problem . It's an oil change FFS .

Waste of half a day .

EDIT : I'll buy the oil and do it myself . At least that way I'll know it's getting the correct oil . Any tips ?

Edited March 30, 2011 by phantompisser

[DJKOR]

EDIT : I'll buy the oil and do it myself . At least that way I'll know it's getting the correct oil . Any tips ?

I won't comment on the service department other than to say that you should stay well away from those guys... but you already figured that one out.

As for changing the oil, I'd highly recommend sticking with the same Toyota Genuine WS ATF unless you are game to try something else, and that you should also change the strainer (wwhich will also mean changing the pan gasket) while you are at it.

The transmission is a sealed unit. Thats what the sales guy told me when I bought the car.

which is why i will never buy an aurion, as sweet as the engine may be... give me a manual, or a way to service the auto, but don't tell me that fluid is good for 100k...

You can still have the fluid changed at request. You can even change it yourself if you take the appropriate care to make sure the transmission fluid is heated to the right temperature.

Even if the only way to change the transmission fluid was through Toyota, I'd still pick an Aurion over a manual 4 cylinder Camry any day.

----------

Edit: After looking at the U660E service manual again (haven't looked at it since last year when I first posted in this thread), changing the transmission fluid on the Aurion is actually easier than it was anticipated at first. You don't need the Intelligent Tester as that is only used to get the transmission fluid up to 39 degrees before starting the procedure. You should be able to work this out without the need for the IT if you want to change it yourself.

Basically you just need to do the following (page 164 onwards):

1. BEFORE FILLING TRANSAXLE WITH FLUID

• This transaxle requires Genuine ATF WS transmission fluid.

• After servicing the transaxle, you must refill the transaxle with the correct amount of fluid.

• Maintain the vehicle in a horizontal position while adjusting fluid level.

• Proceed to step 2 if the oil pan, valve body, drive shaft, and/or torque converter has been removed or if the oil seal has been replaced.

• Proceed to step 3 if oil leakage has been repaired and if the oil cooler and cooler hose have been removed.

2. FILL TRANSAXLE PAN WITH FLUID

(a) Remove the engine under cover LH.

(

b

) Remove the engine under cover RH.

(

c

) Remove the under front fender apron seal RH.

(d) Remove the refill plug and overflow plug.

(e) Fill the transaxle through the refill hole until fluid begins to trickle out of the overflow tube.

(f) Temporarily install the overflow plug.

3. FILL TRANSAXLE WITH FLUID

(a) Fill the transaxle with the correct amount of fluid (shown in service manual).

HINT:

If you cannot add the listed amount of fluid, do the following:

(1) Temporarily install the refill plug.

(2) Allow the engine to idle with the air conditioning OFF.

(3) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate fluid.

(4) Move the shift lever to the P position.

(5) Wait for 30 seconds with the engine idling.

(6) Stop the engine.

(7) Remove the refill plug and add fluid.

(8) Reinstall the refill plug.

(b) Temporarily install the refill plug to avoid fluid splash.

4. CIRCULATE AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID

(a) Allow the engine to idle with the air conditioning OFF.

(b) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate the fluid.

5. CHECK FLUID TEMPERATURE

NOTICE: The fluid temperature should be less than 40°C(104°F) before beginning the fluid temperature check.

(a) With the intelligent tester:

(1) Connect the intelligent tester to the DLC3.

(2) Select the tester menus: OBD/MOBD, ENGINE, DATA LIST and A/T.

(3) Check A/T OIL TEMP.

(4) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature reaches 39°C (102°F).

(b) Without the intelligent tester (Using D shift indicator):

(1) Connect terminals CG (4) and TC (13) of the DLC3 using SST (SST 09843-18040) - Or a paperclip will do the trick ;) .

(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and D at 1.5 seconds interval for 6 seconds.

(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter comes on for 2 seconds when the fluid temperature is within the appropriate temperature range.

(4) The D shift indicator will come on again when the fluid temperature reaches 40°C (104°F) and will blink when it exceeds 45°C (113°F).

(5) After confirming that the D shift indicator turns off, move the shift lever to the P position and remove the SST from terminals CG and TC.

6. CHECK TRANSAXLE FLUID LEVEL

NOTICE: The fluid temperature must be between 40°C (104°F) and 45°C (113°F) to accurately check the fluid level.

(a) Remove the overflow plug with the engine idling.

(b) Check that the fluid comes out of the overflow tube. If fluid does not come out, proceed to step 7. If fluid comes out, wait until the overflow slows to a trickle and proceed to step 8.

7. ADD FLUID

(a) Install the overflow plug.

(b) Remove the refill plug.

(c) Add the fluid until it comes out of the overflow plug.

(d) Wait until the overflow slows to a trickle.

(e) Install the overflow plug with a new gasket.

(f) Install the refill plug with a new gasket.

(g) Stop the engine.

8. AFTER FILLING TRANSMISSION

(a) Install the overflow plug with a new gasket. Torque: 40 N*m (408 kgf*cm, 30 ft.*lbf)

(b) Install the refill plug with a new gasket. Torque: 49 N*m (500 kgf*cm, 36 ft.*lbf)

(c) Stop the engine.

So essentially, all you need to do is find a way to measure the automatic fluid transmission temperature in step 5a without the Intelligent Tester, and you can change the fluid yourself. The only reason why I can imagine that step is required is just to save time so you don't need to wait for long for the fluid to get in between 40 and 45 degrees. So long as it's warm and below 40 degrees when you do step 5b, you should have no issues.

So there you go. I'll gladly stick with my Aurion regardless of the procedure to change it or whether Toyota say it will last 160,000km or more. I will have it changed when I feel it should be, whether it be myself or Toyota that does it.

[phantompisser]

Awesome thanks .

Also checked my vvti oil hose the other day the other day after reading your comments/pics in that thread .

Checked it and it had started to leak oil from the top and had started to perish . So thanks for that too :)

That was done at a different service center and was far more professional and was I very impressed with their service so maybe I just went to an epic fail center today .

[fatsatman]

Went in to get the transmission flush today . Dropped the car off , pulled into the pub carpark (mate followed me down) and the mobile rings .

Service guy : Just calling to let you know that your transmission is a sealed for life unit and doesn't need to be flushed ... We can do it but it takes 20L of really expensive oil .

Me : No worries I'll have a beer and come pick it up .

WTF , I rang 3 service centers and wasn't told this . Obviously it was never going to get done for $210 . And 20L seems highly unlikely for a transmission .

Very last time I ever use a dumbass Toyota service center ever . These are the people that are supposed to know what they are doing ?

They charge top dollar and apparently don't have a clue . This isn't some on , off , on again hard to diagnose problem . It's an oil change FFS .

Waste of half a day .

EDIT : I'll buy the oil and do it myself . At least that way I'll know it's getting the correct oil . Any tips ?

depends what you mean by "flush" if you want a true flush your going to use at least 20lt,the box takes approx 6 litres for a change plus another 2.5 if the convertor is dry, to truly flush it would need a fill up then brief drive then drain again etc about 4 times, ive done this before on my 05 camry and its a pain in the *****,messy too.the ws fluid is $60 odd dollars for 4 litre tin so yes your right they werent going to do it for 210$ plus youde be replacing the filter assembly which is $110 from memory.anyone care to correct me on that.

FAT

[450HP/tonne]

Just speaking my mind so mind me if it sounds a bit far-fetched. All this mention of stuffed gearboxes, and I keep hearing "changed fluid regularly, etc". Now remember how Toyota called this thing a sealed system and you shouldn't have to change the fluid for the life of the car?? What if, and it goes against all logic, not changing the fluid is better for the box.

I know it sounds stupid, but it's just one of those crazy thoughts I have.

This is certainly the case for diesel fuel filters - a normal amount of particles taking up the filter gaps means that the filter strains out smaller particles.

Replacing the filter allows more particles through whilst new and can mean more injector/pump wear and possible damage (the key is to use the filter until the dash light comes on).

Not sure how this applies to the transmission, buy your logic may not be totally crazy ...

[N3ptuNe]

If it's sealed for life why does it state in the Service manual to change the Oil every 150k? I asked CMI (Peter Kittle) this the other day, which he replied that it's part of the 150K service. But according to the dude who called you he said you don't need to forever? sounds a bit suss to me, I think perhaps he's trying not to waist your money, if you haven't done 150K yet.

I was thinking about having it done as I thrash the living crap out of the gears dragging off other cars :P (

Any one else thrash there semi automatic and done more than 99,000K's ? and any dramas?

I have the mentality that Toyotas are Bullet proof and since I look after my car plus self service it with the best oils and have quality after market parts it will be right :P

Edited March 31, 2011 by N3ptuNe

[SCOOTA44]

finally got my car back 4.30 yesterday,$9999.55 why not make it 10k ! anyway it feels different,maybe the old one was dying well before, I find myself driving like a nanna, too scared something might break again. BTW N3ptuNe no car is bullet proof ! I also thought this after my camry, but i have found out the expensive way that even toyota's will break.

i