Last resort before selling...

[camsport]

I am at my witts end with this Camry. From 13's to 17 now we get almost 20L/100 and no one knows how to rectify.

It's a 2003 3.0L Sportivo with just over 100k on the clock, never missed a service and runs like a dream.

Two Toyota service dept's have checked over it with no faults or errors.

New catalytic, nothing, fuel rail clean out, the same maybe worse.

Does better on standard unleaded, anything higher seems to evaporate...

Personally the only item I am suspect about is the TPS sensor as I can't find

a ref to it in the workshop manual, our has 3 pins not 5 or 6.

Symptoms are: Excessive high idle when cold, say 3-5 mins, auto wont't kick up into 4th on cold,

and it seems unresponsive at times. Have "felt" a surge or falter at cruisng speeds of about 70kmh, but

not always. We don't go by the trip computer only litres in and kilometers travelled, displays between 13 & 14L/100km.

We have now stopped driving it.

Anyone? Oh yes and we did check the tyre presure thank you Toyota!

[STYLSH]

It isn't suppose to go into 4th until it gets warm anyways. It is normal to stay in 3rd to try and warm the engine up. If you go slow enough it shouldnt even go into 3rd.

Have you tried resettinghe ecu.

Surge and falters can possibly be a fuel pump/ injectors or something fuel related. Do you get your fuel from he same place all the time? I know there are certain fuels that my car does not like and will stutter.

[camsport]

Thanks WC.

Toyota checked pump and filter in the tank, cleaned injectors and fuel rail.

We are just off the main road so withing 200 meters we have to get up to 80kmh

and the auto revs high in 3rd, I can hear it suffering but what do you do.

Fuel is from all over as I'm on the road a fair bit, though know one servo where you

can put in 74 litres in a 1/4 full tank! I figure I have the only 90L litre fuel

tank in the world!

[Andrew357]

Have you actually tested the TPS sensor?

They go for a song on RockAuto and even with shipping from the US ($27AU for the TPS to me) it's significantly cheaper than genuine.

[Herschel Krustovski]

They didn't tell you to "Try turning it off and on again"?...sorry..standard computer IT question...

All fuel lines and seals ok??...no leaks?...did they pressurise the line with a manometer to check for ANY form or leakage??

Also if the manual shows a 5 or more pin connector to the fuel unit and you only have a 3 pin connector sounds a bit dicky like an incorrect connection or unit has been factory fitted...just tendidng to think this as I had a 1985 Honda VF100R motorcycle with "some" 1986 components...from the factory...luckily though this did not cause any problems.

I'm no mechanic, but to me if the book says one thing and your vehicle has something different, it sounds like something odd has been fitted at the factory....

Hope the problem can be found and repaired quickly and hopefully at no cost to you

[camsport]

Thanks Krusty and Drew,

I did look for the reset button but oddyly enough there is'nt one!

I have though reset the ECU to no avail, the concern with the TPS was that

Icould'nt check it against any known values, the workshop manual has everything but

these details and shows a 5 pin unit and a throttle bidy with a motor that controls

the throttle. Mine is basically an accelerator cable set-up with a TPS.

Fuel line, tanks, cannister lines etc I visually checked myself and have done so while

running as the fuel useage/loss is paramount to a leak.

I guess what's really annoying is that there is no accurate manual that covers the vehicle.

My car has two O2 sensors and after searcing no A/F sensor. Manually checking the rer O2 sensor

was a pain but this too was according to specs.

Is it possible that the timing is out? That is when the timing belt was done was it set up right

or wrong and can this happen? Is there a quick way to check alignment?

[Cbr600]

Did the fuel consumption increase after the t belt was changed?

Will have to remove covers to check if timing is out...

[Martinj]

Just thinking outside the square here, but:

i. Is there a hole in your fuel tank?

ii. Are the pumps at your regular service station ripping you off with overstating litres pumped?

iii. Are your fuel usage calculations wrong? (remember the BOMBDAS rule).

Martin

[camsport]

Just thinking outside the square here, but:

i. Is there a hole in your fuel tank?

ii. Are the pumps at your regular service station ripping you off with overstating litres pumped?

iii. Are your fuel usage calculations wrong? (remember the BOMBDAS rule).

Martin

Hi Martin,

Don't know the BOMBDAS rule but I had suspected the local 7/11 when I filled

up with some 74 litres on a 1/4 tank, not the Camry. Even the Ford wagon only has

72 litres usable capacity.

Calculations are basic: I pay no attention to the trip computer and only use the lires in

against kmh driven fill to fill.

Last time we added 30L and drove 147km before the light stayed on (fuel warning on dash)

The fuel cap is always pressurised, no leeks as I have brown paper under the car, not even an oil

stain!

I have checked the filler hose, cannister and evap line, physically under the car followed all the lines

and check for any marks or leek discolourations etc.

Yesterday I removed the TPS and still have no values to check it against.

It is labelled Toyota 89452-33030, resistance closed is .22k Ohms increasing smoohly to 2.8k ohms at

WOT postion. On re-installing it I did find it is pre-tensioned just to line up the screw holes.

On a Ford you basically chuck on a new one and run a calibration with the ignition on then idling for 1 minute.

I have read with Toyota's you need a feeler guage etc but that's rubbish as there is no give (holes not slots)

on the TPS.

One detail I have not mentioned is the filth seen in the throttle body. I have cleaned this out

twice now using the right cleaner. Looking past the throttle plate the plenum chamber is covered in

dark oil deposits that look like spatter. Last week I also removed and cleaned the pcv valve which

was gummed and partially clogged, not inoperative but very average.

The car has fresh synthetic oil and filter...can't actually see past the silly rocker cover screen

to get an indication of upper head compenets.

[Cbr600]

Is this a afm or map sensor engine ? Have you cleaned the afm if fitted?

[camsport]

Is this a afm or map sensor engine ? Have you cleaned the afm if fitted?

Uhm...I believe it is a MAF sensor , located in the air intake above the air cleanaer element.

Two screws hold it in place, looks like a hairpin with a blob on the end. I have measured this

at teperature and it is withing specs, it looks as if it just went in, new.

Oddly though next to the air intake box another sensor ( I think) it's mounted on a bracket, looks like about

10 pins. This I have no idea about, there is no reference to this rectangular block anywhere.

Cheers...

[Cbr600]

Inlet Air temp sensor is the one inside the air filter box the 10 wire or so plug is the air flow meter. The air flow should log a code if faulty how ever junk does build up on the element so it is worth cleaning it . Throttle body spray should do it don't use carburetor cleaner .....

[camsport]

Inlet Air temp sensor is the one inside the air filter box the 10 wire or so plug is the air flow meter. The air flow should log a code if faulty how ever junk does build up on the element so it is worth cleaning it . Throttle body spray should do it don't use carburetor cleaner .....

Thanks for that. I will look into the throttle body cleaner!

[camsport]

Turn of events...

While reading through some other posts and running issues I came across the

symptoms a blocked EGR valve can have and thought "hmmm, let's check this out too"

So from what I understand it's meant to open at cruising speeds and at operating temp

to reduce combustion temperatures at "lean burn" levels.

After 3 grazed knuckles and a copule of scratches I got the mongrel out!

In hindsight I should have applied a vacuum to it straight off and test it but

I was too curious to see what treasures it had inside.

Removed a threaded bolt that looks like a drain/cleaning port and started.

Some carby cleaner, small cloth pieces on a wire and it was flying out.

I have a hand vacuum pump for bleeing brake lines so easy to leave open

while the cleaner poured out...very dirty!

Initially I think it was hard to open but then it seemded to free up.

Back on the car and ran down the freeway all good.

So! Suddenly acceleration is dramatic, auto gear change is crisp, even

the on board avg fuel useage has moved down to 13...

I don't know what to make of this just yet so I'll post back in a day or two.

Did not expect any real change in acceleration or performance, I am sure the EGR only

works at cruising speeds.

[Spider]

Sounds promising! What does egr stand for? Thanks for keeping us all up to date!

[Cbr600]

Exhaust gas recirculation. sweet you got it going

[Ronnyboy]

Some positive results there. keep us upto date...

[camsport]

Some positive results there. keep us upto date...

I think we're done guys!

The on-boad trip computer has come down to 12 and my last 25 litres

looks like it's about to hit 240kmh, which by my calulations is 10.5L/100km.

No driving like a girl either, lots of kicks in the guts and steady cruise speeds.

Did not expect an EGR valve to play such a vital role in fuel economy.

I guess one factor I should have paid more attention to was that it idled and started so well.

My point being whatever was causing the issue was at speed, plenty of guts just not happy cruisng.

[camsport]

Some positive results there. keep us upto date...

I think we're done guys!

The on-boad trip computer has come down to 12 and my last 25 litres

looks like it's about to hit 240kmh, which by my calulations is 10.5L/100km.

No driving like a girl either, lots of kicks in the guts and steady cruise speeds.

Did not expect an EGR valve to play such a vital role in fuel economy.

I guess one factor I should have paid more attention to was that it idled and started so well.

My point being whatever was causing the issue was at speed, plenty of guts just not happy cruisng.

Here's one that may be common to other V6 3.0L models.

STARTING ISSUES!

Late to fire, takes about 5 sec plus of cranking and finally start but may splutter without some gas.

Hot or cold the same, mostly concerned I was going to need a new battery and or starter soon enough.

Did the usual, ISC on the throttle body, known good spark plugs, battey good, starter fine.

My best guess wasfuel pressure issues, but the hassle of finding the right pump was already an issue

as the specified unit for my car was wrong in the workshop manual, as is the TPS sensor, throtle body, accelerator pedal...!

Basically in this model the fuelpump sits within a 3 part plastic housing that "clicks" apart, bananas!

After dissasembling the beasty I noticed a filter section within the main plastic housing, above what I assume is a removeable

regulator and below a black plastic plug. This seems to be a black/charcoal coloured filter in the form of what I can only

describe as rolled up cardboard.

Once the top black plastic plug was pulled off, a heap of petrol poured out, not red in colour black dark, looked very dirty.

Ran some clean fuel through it and re-assemble taking not of a silly spring under the balck plug...no idea what it does.

Well about 10 minutes later I plugged in the fuel pump relay and primed the pump with a few ignition on/off turns before kicking

it over.

Started staight up! Let it sit and checked it every 5 minutes until having it hijacked by the kid!

Went online to look at pricing the pump and was mortified to see that what was in my car is not was is sold for it, basically will not fit.

Hope this helps someone out!

[11/16Aurion 12Kluger]

Some positive results there. keep us upto date...

Did not expect an EGR valve to play such a vital role in fuel economy.

.

I had a 2000 3.0 v6 camry and it started acting up.. intermittent rough idle, loss of power, etc. I discovered it was the ecu also.

After more internet searching i found that this engine in the usa is not fitted with an egr valve as it meets their epa standards without it.

For some strange reason they insisted on fitting them in oz?

Anyway i blocked the valve rather than fiddle with or replace it and the difference was like a new engine, just as you have found.

I blocked it by loosening the two bolts that hold the unit together and slipping in a piece of tin and tightening the bolts back up.

Worked like a charm.

I did wonder... as the symptoms are similar to a blown head gasket i wonder how many well meaning mechanics have performed a head gasket replacement because of this?? :-(

Edited January 6, 2012 by camryv6

[STYLSH]

And hope that a CEL doesnt pop up.