Power FC

[Azza]

May I say that neither Northy or myself are small men, and SILVABULLIT isn't a stringbeen either, and Thursday night with all 3 of us in the car, and I was impressed BIG TIME!!!

Mintos, please come and visit us so we can show you....

Edited October 3, 2005 by Azza

[Danthuyer]

oh and i forgot to mention THIS IS A ZZE123 FIRST!!!!

I cant say I have heard ANYONE else doing this ECU in their stivo...CAN YOU!?!?!?!

AWESOME work Northy :D

[Red_CT9A]

...soo who's next...???

:)

[ZEEROLLA]

Well done!

Keep up the good work!

Who did the tuning?

←

tuning was done through S Rally in Sydney

←

Ahh.. is that why you came to Sydney!

btw Northy did you purchase your PFC through S Rally as well or you just got it tuned there?

Edited October 3, 2005 by ZEEROLLA

[Northy]

was pursched there as well

[Grey-Rolla]

Northy ur car is pimpin man

Thast a hot Aussie Corolla....u dont see ride like that here

Nice work mate so damnz envious :D

[Mintos]

Like i said, i was not dissing it people, and i would love to see how it goes, Brisbane is a fair trek for me though Azza :( Maybe i may come up for a holiday sometime :)

You should not get so defensive, i was personally asking Northy and 20 of you jumped in <_< , relax

Northy's/Shao's phantom is definitely the best looking Corolla on this forum in my opinion (those wings man) however i dont think it is unfair to question the cost/purpose of the PFC modification, as it has not been done to a stivo yet.

I am not a pro on ECU's by any account, i have only done a small amount of research, but all my sources say MOTEC is the way to go for top performance. I also am not sure what level of features you are looking for in your ECU Northy but the cost of the MOTEC i was referring to:

http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIABV8/category30_1.htm

The M800 is the most expensive at 3.5k, with also probably 1k spent on tuning, but i dont think the stivo needs a racing ECU... So Blue_Stivo and xoom, there is my hard evidence.

shao - nice to know you are a pro mate, but please enlighten me as to what i do not know about the PFC? I am here to learn, rather than being abusive, be informative.

Silvabullit - I did not claim that i have driven Northy's vehicle or anything of the sort, my judgement was based on they dyno sheet provided (minus the numbers mind you) and the alterations to timings as stated by Northy. I simply wanted a personal response from Northy regarding his decision to go that ECU, i was not being malicious, simply skeptical, so dont get so defensive.

Northy - thank you for you candid, mature response. I see why you opted for the PFC and it was as i suspected. ECU replacements (and piggybacks) seem to give big torque gains, i am damn keen for one if my tyres werent running bald :( damn insurance has just run me dry. May i also ask which model MOTEC you were quoted for? Does anyone know which model would be optimal for a stivo?

Cheers guys, keep it safe and friendly

[xoom]

Hi Mintos,

I didnt think i was being abusive with anything i said so i hope u werent refering to me i was just stating the facts of all my research..... and trust me its hours and days of research....

With regards to ur question about which motec ... Well the stivo would take the M400 from the range indicated so that $2827 .... When i spoke to motec about this they indicated there was an extra component also required which was a few hundred dollars more i believe it was the VVT controller so that will push u over $3K .... Motec themselves have already popped this onto a sportivo and i believe it is leanne ferrari's car who is running this ecu in her track sportivo.....

But as indicated when speaking full blown racing u cant go past motec but as these are street cars a motec is a complete overkill and from memory feature for feature the APFC does stack up against the motec...... but any1 please educate me if im wrong.

cheers

Bill

[shaohaok]

  Like i said, i was not dissing it people, and i would love to see how it goes, Brisbane is a fair trek for me though Azza  :(  Maybe i may come up for a holiday sometime  :)

You should not get so defensive, i was personally asking Northy and 20 of you jumped in  <_< , relax

Northy's/Shao's phantom is definitely the best looking Corolla on this forum in my opinion (those wings man) however i dont think it is unfair to question the cost/purpose of the PFC modification, as it has not been done to a stivo yet.

I am not a pro on ECU's by any account, i have only done a small amount of research, but all my sources say MOTEC is the way to go for top performance. I also am not sure what level of features you are looking for in your ECU Northy but the cost of the MOTEC i was referring to:

http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIABV8/category30_1.htm

The M800 is the most expensive at 3.5k, with also probably 1k spent on tuning, but i dont think the stivo needs a racing ECU... So Blue_Stivo and xoom, there is my hard evidence.

shao - nice to know you are a pro mate, but please enlighten me as to what i do not know about the PFC? I am here to learn, rather than being abusive, be informative.

Silvabullit - I did not claim that i have driven Northy's vehicle or anything of the sort, my judgement was based on they dyno sheet provided (minus the numbers mind you) and the alterations to timings as stated by Northy. I simply wanted a personal response from Northy regarding his decision to go that ECU, i was not being malicious, simply skeptical, so dont get so defensive.

Northy - thank you for you candid, mature response. I see why you opted for the PFC and it was as i suspected. ECU replacements (and piggybacks) seem to give big torque gains, i am damn keen for one if my tyres werent running bald  :(  damn insurance has just run me dry. May i also ask which model MOTEC you were quoted for? Does anyone know which model would be optimal for a stivo?

Cheers guys, keep it safe and friendly

←

most ppl will tell u that i'm usually i'm quite informative. and had it not been because of that, Northy will still be driving around in a stock ascent sport. These are the words from the man himself.

i wasn't ready to commit to a powerFC on a car i was selling in a year but i did bring up the idea several times to Northy and since he was keen, we did quite a bit of research, now he's bitten the bullet. this time last year i rung up apexi aus and motec to enquire about things.

sometimes, phrasing of the question is important, it might not have been "dissing" but i think most ppl read it as a challenge to why a powerFC was used instead of a motec and that not much thought was put into it.

[Pippy]

EMS, Haltek, Altronic, Motec, Wolf3D

custom ECU or some call race ecu are built to suit you own application.

you'll find that Motec is recommened and mentioned more is due to the level of publicity they create about their products.

If you read in to the backgroud, Motec is a heavy commercial business oriented company, hence it caused one of the original head engineers to leave and start Altronic.

In terms of street cars, the differences in these applications are minimal.

They all follow identical management method (all static base maps) and with variables changing the mapping.

They're all just as good as eachother, but in terms of ease of use, tune and managment application, i think going to an close to OEM unit would be ideal, unless your is being used for a sole track car. i.e. re-tuned for different track everytime.

This topic is again a bit like comparing piggybacks, Unichip, Chiptorque, Apexi, Trust/Greddy, Blitz, HKS. its whichever one that has the closest application applicable to the OEM settings that wins.

VVT-i/VVTL-i follow a very "secretive" coding in its tuning/management algorithm, and it wouldn't surprise me if Apexi has more resources than most other companies in this area. Mind you, apexi is also japanese, with global respect in its engineering, otherwise why doesn't anyone else produce replacement ECUs with OEM base map with all the flexibilities of an custom ECU?

The is no right or wrong source of information when it comes to cars, just like there's no right or wrong way of spending your own money. Each person has different level of perception towards consumer products, and most definitely different levels of common sence.

The time spent reading and actually having real life experience of an product would be the best way to learn, as you're the money spender, you feel the pain. Where as articles, they don't feel anything other than their pockets filling by which ever company wants good things said about their product.

Furthermore, if you're comparing an ECU application to an V8, V6, Inline 6, Inline 4, Rotary (N/A or Force Induction) with eachother. Then you're a fool!

high reving N/A engines (Japs) are too different to torquey large engines.

Get your sources right. understand the mechanics of it all, it'll help you understand the electronics. I.e. understand the difference in the mechanical / electrical involvment of both vvt-i and vvtL-i (just like VTEC and i-VTEC LEV)

Peace.

[CHA54]

...it's Autronic btw ;)

ps, One of the engineer's at Motec has had a LOT of involvment with Toyota engines and variable cam control. He actually posts on Toymods and Twincam.org from time to time. He's done a ton of Toyota engine conversions in his car's over the years.

For a Motec, it becomes a very expensive excercise once you factor in the amount of tuning required for a daily-driver. Dyno time is not cheap.

The best feature of the PowerFC is it's ability to plug and pray. Plug it in, tune it from the basemaps, your aircon will still work, you're a happy camper.

Downsides are you can't lose the AFM, and the tuning resolution isn't as fine as some of the higher spec ECU's.

If you get a PowerFC, also factor in an additional $500 for the FC Datalogit stuff, it opens up a lot more options with the FC. It's just a shame they're so fricken slow to produce them... I've been waiting 7 weeks now since I paid for mine.

Edited October 3, 2005 by rollamods

[SILVABULLIT]

My brother paid just on $3k for an Autronic engine management computer,loom and a few sensors about 4 years ago. I'ts going on his VW type 3 with a 2330cc fuel injected, t3/t4 hybrid turbo and dry sumped flat 4 engine. Seems like a lot to spend on an ECU but that's peanuts compared to the cost of this engine(approx 20k.) So he wants an ECU that can control everything this engine can produce as well as do it safely without problems.

Ask Northy, he's seen all these goodies and and the car it's going into ;)

I only wish my Stivo could have as much torque as this thing did when it was atmo :(

[Mintos]

I see...well i havnt really been looking at high range ECUs, because as i said before i am on the look for one within the next few months, so this is why perhaps i appeared so critical of the PFC, because for what i am looking it, it is kinda pricey.

xoom - its cool man, i wasnt getting stuck into you, you were being quite informative, I wasnt specific enough in my statement and you started getting discussing things that werent really relevant to what i was meaning to say, apologies.

shao - it is nice that you treat your brisbane buddies with your knowledge, but why not share it with the world on TOCA and live up to your rep?

What would you more educated folk make as a recommendation for an ECU to get that could control forced induction in a 1zzfe (turbo or s/c) as well as fuel cut offs and timings, etc? Would a replacement ECU such as the Apexera be the most viable or will a cheaper piggy back suffice?

Cheers

[Northy]

first up to change the fuel cut you have to move to a replacement ECU, in the line of piggybacks i know MAP81 (another brissy boy) has had good results with an emanage and it has the ability to handle a turbo setup, its also a fairly cheap option as well.

few handy likes to compare some of the options avalible

http://www.adaptronic.com.au/comp.html

http://www.emergent.com.au/200sx/ecudata.html

[shaohaok]

I see...well i havnt really been looking at high range ECUs, because as i said before i am on the look for one within the next few months, so this is why perhaps i appeared so critical of the PFC, because for what i am looking it, it is kinda pricey.

xoom - its cool man, i wasnt getting stuck into you, you were being quite informative, I wasnt specific enough in my statement and you started getting discussing things that werent really relevant to what i was meaning to say, apologies.

shao - it is nice that you treat your brisbane buddies with your knowledge, but why not share it with the world on TOCA and live up to your rep?

What would you more educated folk make as a recommendation for an ECU to get that could control forced induction in a 1zzfe (turbo or s/c) as well as fuel cut offs and timings, etc? Would a replacement ECU such as the Apexera be the most viable or will a cheaper piggy back suffice?

Cheers

←

are u saying that i don't share enough? when i'm sure of it, i will. i think more than half of my 1000 odd posts have been informative. feel free to have a look thru them. there are times where i may not share them on this forum myself but with the ppl around me who have shared them here anyhow. sometimes i PM ppl if i would like my advise to them to remain discrete. i received countless PMs about konis, and the flywheel swap, etc etc.

i am not here to justify or brag about my contributions to this forum. i try my best to help out and i prefer the discrete ways most of the time. those who know will tell u.

[influx]

ahhhh northy my parts supplier didn't tell me about the whole celica wiring problems - since you have post this you have saved me quite a deal of f - ing around especially since talking to you about thew old vs new apexera debate. i nearly bought that one in my friends shop complete with the hand controller for 1500 but thanks for letting me know as when i did more research it was for 2zz ge but couldn't confirm loom and other details ...so it sits on the shelf. :(

think i will just by some potenza s tyres - at least i know what i am getting my self into.

your cars still makes me violently jealous you sure you don't want to sell the buddys?? :D

[DANZZT231]

I see...well i havnt really been looking at high range ECUs, because as i said before i am on the look for one within the next few months, so this is why perhaps i appeared so critical of the PFC, because for what i am looking it, it is kinda pricey.

xoom - its cool man, i wasnt getting stuck into you, you were being quite informative, I wasnt specific enough in my statement and you started getting discussing things that werent really relevant to what i was meaning to say, apologies.

shao - it is nice that you treat your brisbane buddies with your knowledge, but why not share it with the world on TOCA and live up to your rep?

What would you more educated folk make as a recommendation for an ECU to get that could control forced induction in a 1zzfe (turbo or s/c) as well as fuel cut offs and timings, etc? Would a replacement ECU such as the Apexera be the most viable or will a cheaper piggy back suffice?

Cheers

←

Shao is a very helpful member. Ask nicely.

[Northy]

ahhhh northy my parts supplier didn't tell me about the whole celica wiring problems  - since you have post this you have saved me quite a deal of f - ing around especially since talking to you about thew old vs new apexera debate. i nearly bought that one in my friends shop complete with the hand controller for 1500 but thanks for letting me know as when i did more research it was for 2zz ge but couldn't confirm loom and other details ...so it sits on the shelf. :( 

think i will just by some potenza s tyres - at least i know what i am getting my self into.

your cars still makes me violently jealous you sure you don't want to sell the buddys?? :D

←

I had no idea either untill we pluged it in and it didn't work, took hrs of going through wiring diagrams and pinouts to get the thing going right, still few little issues that we are trying to sort one at a time.

[mx83toy]

i was speaking to dave flud (race guys will know who im taking about..) anywayz he has quoted 6 grand installed and tuned for the motec i saw a 132 ATW's from a stivo with no other mods other than the ecu before ppl call bs and dyno's lie ect. this is on the same dyno that recorded 158 on my 13 sec twinturbo cressi

the fc is awsome for its price but the motech lets you do some nasty stuff which i have in mind :D :D :D

[Northy]

im sorry mate but that is really BS there is no way a stock Sportivo could be pulling that much power atw with just an ECU change

[SILVABULLIT]

At $6k it would want to be double as good as the PFC as it costs double the price.

[CHA54]

I believe the figure, Dyno Dave is very good.

[JSL]

i was speaking to dave flud (race guys will know who im taking about..) anywayz he has quoted 6 grand installed and tuned for the motec  i saw a  132 ATW's from a stivo with no other  mods other than the ecu before ppl call bs and dyno's lie ect. this is on the same dyno that recorded 158 on my 13 sec twinturbo cressi

the fc is awsome for its price but the motech lets you do some nasty stuff which i have in mind   :D  :D  :D

←

ok guys.. the guy who tuned the PFC for northy is a motec/autronic dealer.. and he is one of the most well known tuners in sydney.. we are keeping him name secret atm as we want to pump out 2 sportivo with PFC and get them perfect before we release anymore information.. 1 in bris (wonder who that is) and there one in sydney in a few weeks...

He and anyone non brand sponsored tuner will tell you there nothing that a motec can do for a STOCK sportivo that a PFC can't do..

To get a Haltech/Autronic ECU to do the same features as PFC will cost you from 4-7k it's as simple as that..

if you can get a PFC to work in a car do it!! you will never be disappointed.. but if you cant then your best option is a Haltech or Autronic.. they are the best..

to get 132kw ATW on a stock sportivo.. i dont even car how many TRD bolt on it has I would say no way in hell.. and to bring that car to a dyno on a random choice to prove this claim.. i dont care what figures it claims or have prints out for.. only way is to have to dyno setup once and 1 base sportivo run up for baseline.. and this other 132kw sportivo run up... operator is not allowed to change any setting..

Croydon Autosports have now been picked up on a dyno lie..

Check this thread

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=309585

Figures mean nothing when your comparing cars at different dyno and so on..

There lots and lots of dyno discussion all over the world.. but that is a massive claim for a sportivo with no internals...

Don't forget guys we are still in R&D for the PFC its not just plug in atm.. but kit nearly out..

Edited October 5, 2005 by JSL

[JSL]

I believe the figure, Dyno Dave is very good.

←

err dyno dave did this 132kw atw on a motec??

has dyno dave finally bought a dyno? or is he still using a rental?

[xoom]

I believe the figure, Dyno Dave is very good.

←

err dyno dave did this 132kw atw on a motec??

has dyno dave finally bought a dyno? or is he still using a rental?

←

The only sportivo that i have seen even come close to this was leanne ferrari's and she had the engine blue printed..... big $$$$$$$$$