Geoff_C

Fuel consumption - 2015 2.8 litre diesel

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I have had this vehicle about 6000 km. During this time I have done a double roundtrip Sydney-Hunter Valley (back to back) and the best fuel consumption displayed on the dash was 10.5 l/100km. I have noticed this is heavily damped (That means in case you don't know it does not change fast)  I also have never had any different consumption around town. Always either 10.6 or 10.5. I rather expected this vehicle to do better on freeway driving, but that has not proved the case. Then a friend said I should check if the displayed reading is accurate. Its not. It should be 11.08, not 10.6. That was over 560 kms.

I wonder if anyone else has a different experience. I was told this engine is more efficient than the old one. I have never owned another Toyota, but a friend tells me he gets significantly better consumption on the freeway, even while towing a light van, but he has the old engine.

 

Geoff

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Its extremely disappointing how quiet this forum is. I will have to find my answer elsewhere.  I cant keep on coming back to see nothing going on. 

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I have the same vehicle and have covered almost the same number of K's but in WA.

I have been really impressed with the fuel consumption although I probably drive slower than you? the odd times that I have bothered to look at the dash I found that one setting wasn't damped much at all and by careful (but not stupidly slow) driving could easily make it read between 7 and 10.

However I am still battling with Toyota over another issue which you may not have read, this is the lack of map updates. My Prado has over two year old maps and I guess yours does too. Dealing with Toyota makes getting blood out of a stone seem easy. I wont be buying another one but don't expect much sympathy on this forum.

If you would like details of just how incompetent Toyota Australia are over the software issue PM me or I could post again on here.

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Hi John,

Thank you for your response. Its good to know there is at least one other Prado owner on here.

I am not sure how you know that you drive slower than I do, but be that as it may. I just did 45 minutes across Sydney, 35 km or so, and I drove as slowly as it is feasible to do without annoying all other road users. My dash display is still 10.6. Unchanged. As you say there is another dash display of the "instant" consumption, but I tried it and cant get any sense of the average from it. It goes all over the place, and very fast too. If you were to temporarily look at the display on your own car that I am talking about, what does it read? I would very much appreciate knowing that.

I have experimented driving gently, normally, and very hard. In my case driving relatively hard seems to offer the best consumption, but its hard to know unless you work it out yourself tank fill by tank fill. The damping on that indicator is really far too much. I think it may take 200 km to change.

Regarding the GPS, I have never used that, and don't plan to. With my previous car, a late model Mercedes, I was extremely annoyed at the supposed traffic reports that never ever told me of upcoming traffic, but almost always told me of traffic when I was already stuck in it. I eventually came to the conclusion that it was my own car updating the traffic reports. Mercedes Benz do take a satellite feed from every single one of their cars back to Germany, and thats how they create traffic reports. As I was planning on doing about 4000 km in France in a hire car a year back, I bought a Tom Tom. I have had experience of hiring these GPS, and its cheaper to buy your own if you are going to be driving more than 10 days. I needed to use it to familiarise myself, so I used it in the Merc here in Aus. It took about a week and I was sold. Completely sold, even over the moon. It knew routes I did not know, had magic traffic reports even telling me how many minutes delay were ahead, and offered alternative routes telling me how much time I could recover.  I don't ever intend to use an in-car GPS system again. The map updates is one way they line their pockets, and all of them are doing that, but their map guidance software is not in the same universe as the professionals. I did note in France one car I hired had the Tom Tom software installed (Renault) but mine had better options. 

Regards,

Geoff

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Hi Geoff, I am heading into the country this afternoon so will try it out.

To be sure we are talking about the same thing I have just scrolled through the display with the ignition on but engine not running. My display shows trip A, trip B, range, then L/100Km which is the "instant" fuel consumption. Next is L/100Km average, mine shows at present 9.3 but I have been doing short runs around the suburbs.

I will post again when I return from this longer than usual trip..

In the meantime I agree with you about GPS although I would be quite happy with the factory fitted system if it had current maps. The traffic etc seems to work well.

Please would you look at your unit to check if it is using the same maps as mine?  From the map screen press, menu, more, help, about, more, content, maps.

I think it will show Australia HERE map from 2013 Q4

I have had many irate phone calls with Toyota Customer Experience, they say that the latest map for our vehicles is part number PZQ 6000250 and is version 21 released in July 2015.

I do not think it will work in our cars as it uses "whereis" not HERE maps. Toyota want me to pay over $300 for it even though my car was built in September 2015 and I bought it in December.   The saga goes on as the dealership says there isn't a micro sd card in the country!  I will be speaking to both of them again tomorrow.

 

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Have you looked at your consumption screen ?  apps, eco then you will see something like this:

 

IMG_3153.jpg

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After quite a long drive my average is still on 9.3 so I guess that the average must be over a long period. Mine does include sometimes towing.

The spikes in the picture above are in traffic and reversing then sitting with the engine running trying to take the picture!

Also is your Prado automatic? as I wanted a manual so that I could decide which gear to be in, not Toyota's software. This may affect the fuel economy?

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Hi John,

So the only real difference between our vehicles is mine is auto? And even with towing, you get 9.3 (as displayed, although based on my experience that is not accurate) I took a photo of my last 30 minutes driving when I was being very cautious, and one really would think it was running at under 10 l/100 and maybe it is, but the fuel reading did not change, and as I explained it takes some hours of driving to register a change. I can of course switch to manual, but to be honest the modern autos are very efficient, and I doubt that is the difference. If I got 9.3 I would be very happy. 

My map is exactly the same as yours. HERE 2013 Q4. Rather ridiculous for a 2015 model?

Have you ever calculated the fuel consumption using the amount you put in the tank and the distance since last filling? Just wondering on what you base the feeling that you are very happy with the consumption since you did not seem to be aware of that 9.3 average?

IMG_0711.thumb.jpg.77bc3f89cc7b3dc55a711

Edited by Geoff_C
add

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Thank you for checking your maps, I have started a post in the general forum asking newish owners to check and post their navigation software age.

I know that you have a better navigation system than the factory supplied one but if you agree that selling a new vehicle with over two year old navigation is unacceptable I wonder if you would be so kind as to ring Toyota Customer Experience to ask when updates will be available.

It is my opinion that neither they nor their dealers have any clue. I have spoken to HERE mapping company who say they "have no connection with Toyota and no new maps planned"

Toyota also say it is Fujitsu Ten who do the mapping in new vehicles, I have spoken to them as well and they told me that "they only provide the audio"

If you look at the Toyota websites for Europe, the USA or Japan you will see pages extolling the virtues of up to date maps. It is simple but of course expensive in these markets to download updates so why not in Australia?

 

As for your original question, unfortunately I have not yet filled up my tank then measured the distance travelled. I agree that my 9.3 average may well not be accurate, however the fuel consumption seems so much better than my previous car in Australia which was a Ford Falcon AU automatic (4 litre straight six)

Your bar graph certainly looks more under ten than over.

Edited by JohnLynn

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It looks like you are getting a royal run-around. I would be thinking your state equivalent of our "Fair Trading" department. 

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I lodged a complaint in December with  WA consumer protection. I recently received a reply from them saying they had "spoken to someone in Toyota and I should ask my dealer"

I am not permitted to speak directly to whoever this person is in Toyota so am waiting for another response. I have also written to Senator Muir of the motoring enthusiast party and also the FCAI.  I am waiting for a response from both but not holding my breath.

As you have confirmed that your navigation is outdated, this suggests that all Australian Toyota vehicles are supplied with outdated software yet nobody either notices or cares.

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I would entirely agree that all the so-called "New Model" Prados released in mid 2015 have this issue. It would be fine if we all get a free GPS update at out first service.  Its rather hard to "notice" because map software is never perfect, and even if you got a 2016 release, it would have things both wrong, and missing. And I have to admire they depths to which you went in following the maybe 8 level menu to discover the map versions. I doubt anyone else would have done so. 

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Just to let you know that I have joined a Prado forum where this map issue is being discussed.

One of the members asked if I had looked in my glove box where he found a bag containing a booklet and licence for whereis navigation data Australia V20.

It is a genuine Toyota fitting kit part number TOEA1431. Would you be so kind as to have a look in your vehicle please?

This makes the mystery deepen for me, we have a whereis fitting kit that mentions "discs" not sd cards in new vehicles yet as we know the navigation has HERE maps.

If this wasn't enough it appears that the HERE mapping company previously owned by Nokia, who took over Navteq has been acquired on 4th December by a consortium of German car makers Audi, BMW, and Daimler for $2.5 billion.

So we have out of date maps fitted to all new vehicles that are made by HERE digital mapping company, now owned by German car manufacturers, with a fitting kit in each new vehicle supplied by whereis. This booklet suggests going to a web page for whereis updates, where you will discover that no updates have been issued for a Prado since 2010.

Can you wonder Toyota refuse to answer my questions? how do they get away with it only in Australia ?

Edited by JohnLynn

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Just had a look in the glove box. No I don't have that kit. As a software developer of many years I would not pay any attention to a trivial detail like a reference to a disc when you need a micro-sd card. If you actually have a disc, copy all the data to the sd, and load it. If the software is programmed correctly, it will update, or give you a message if it cant. It looks like a legal challenge will be needed to shake up Toyota. But my solution is to use my Tom Tom. Of course if you have that kit, you can simply ask Toyota to apply it at your next service. QED.

I have now started simply asking other owners of Prados that I see in car parks with diesel engines what fuel consumption they get, and I am more and more convinced my engine has an issue. The last guy claimed 8.5 lt/100 vs my 11.1

Geoff

Edited by Geoff_C

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Best of luck with your fuel consumption issue, after all that is why you started this thread before I took over moaning about maps.

I didn't realise you were a software developer so I will send you a PM.

I have attached a picture of this "fitting kit" it is easy to overlook if it is in with other paperwork.

Glad that you are happy with your TomTom, I could add to my post above about who owns what in the digital mapping field that TomTom acquired whereis Australia last year. Don't they usually give their customers free map upgrades !

Anyway I don't wish to monopolise your fuel consumption thread so this will be my last comment about maps. We have the crazy situation that Toyota used whereis maps now owned by TomTom and HERE maps now owned by Audi, so I think Toyota have no map suppliers for Australia, hence the deafening silence from them.

20160223_090704.jpg

Edited by JohnLynn

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No I don't have that. My Prado was literally the first few weeks of the new version. My rego date is 10th Sept.

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Hi Guys,

 

I know JohnLynn and have just joined this group. I too have the 2.8l from 2016 and its a VX. I have done a city run peak traffic and found 9.7l/100km and then another same day 9.5l/100km. My speedo is out approximately 3% so that needs to be factored as well. I have only done 200km so far on mine and it seems like the engine performance is getting better every km. Will be doing a beach run tonight so interested to see how it goes with that.

 

Regards

cuda - cudestir for this group.

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Hi everyone it's good to hear your experiences. Build quality control issues with Prados?

I have found our demo 2.8 D4D as thirsty as comparable petrol engines. Straight from showroom first tank averaged 17L/100km second tank with more careful driving 13L/100km. Last fill up to 14L/100km. Mixed driving mainly free flowing city traffic. Calculated from fuel receipts. Car has about 3000km on odo. Mobil special diesel then Caltex diesel.

Toyota technician said its normal and due to driving style. Provided a convincing info sheet on Adr figures and how they don't equate to real life figures. Could not fault the car. But altering our driving style still does not improve the consumption much.

So lately I've been driving very carefully accelarating slowly ( no revs above 1800) and letting go of the gas 1km in advance off traffic lights braking last 100m turning off the Aircond etc... It's become a ridiculous obsession of myself and my wife to try to improve fuel economy. After 75km from full tank average is 11.9km/100km according to Toyota meter. This would probably be 12.5-13L/100km if calculated from fuel receipts. This is accelerating slowly off the line as the engine has no initial punch and cars behind are not happy. One or two people but otherwise empty car.

If our 2.8  Prado could even achieve 10l/100km I would be happy but it has never done so! The 2.8 turbo diesel is 63% more thirsty than the quoted Toyota Adr figures.sometimes up to 90% more thirsty if driven normally and not pushed.

issue with the engine, drivetrain or factory quality control?

Regarding driving style we have previously driven the 3.0l turbo diesel fully loaded floor to ceiling without any special careful driving styles and easily got 9-10 l/100km mixed driving including hard acceleration at lights.

The photo is of the fuel consumption when driving in light city traffic and driving purely for economy. My guess is that it's not impressive.

 

image.jpeg

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Seems you may have an issue. I just came back from a 40km beach run and averaged 15l/100km with roof racks, full rear with 3 adults and running through soft sand. Averged 9.7l/100km return hwy driving at 110km/h. If i drive at 80km/h I can get down to 7.6l/100km. City driving pushes it up to 11.5l/100km. My old petrol city was 16l/100 and 14.5l/100km hwy driving at 110km/h. Ask if you can test drive one from the dealership for a few days to confirm if yours has an issue.

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Hi JPrad,

 

It seems you experience is much the same as mine. However it does seem that "some" people see a different average fuel figure in what I would say are quite short distances. My reading that is currently on 10.6 (which is really 11.1) will not change by much in 400 km of driving. But we also see others get VERY much better fuel economy, and I REALLY don't think this is driving style. I am thinking of putting a notice on the back of my Prado to apologise for my slow driving!!!

Edited by Geoff_C

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What do you consider short distances? I think the fuel reading vs real reading is due to the inaccuracy of the speedo. I have double checked mine and its approximately 3%. The consumption reading over short distances will be approximate but have you checked to see if the ECO light is on failry frequently? This would be a good indicator of the fuel usage. I will be connecting my scanguage soon to see what the true fuel usage will be. Stay tuned. 

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Hi Cudestir,

Sounds like you are getting reasonably good economy consistently. 

Last fill up driving very slowly city stop start but freeflowing returned 11.38L/100km from fuel receipts and indicated range is about 1250km on full tank which was actually surprisingly not too bad. (Toyota meter said 11.8L/100km) Running 35psi allround. Short trips 15 minutes-40minutes. Some hills.

Maybe this Prado is normal. I don't know.

I did notice the engine lugging up hill like it's struggling, the steering wheel and the accelerator pedal vibrates up hill. But very smooth on flat roads and when coasting and Idle.  Hope this is normal for diesels.

If the high consumption persists I might ask for a loan car like you suggested.

 

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Hi Geoff_C,

I am am puzzled how others are getting sub 10 consistently during mixed driving with mostly city. I have yet to test our Prado on freeway driving to see what it does.

I would hope it gets better as the engine loosens up.

I too need that back window sign to apologise for my very slow driving!

Maybe instead of "Caution Child on Board" we could have "Caution SLOW VEHICLE: Fuel Saving in Progress"

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35 PSI sounds low. I am running my 18inch at 40 PSI. It would make some difference with lower pressures especially 5 PSI. I have been told the engine performance improves considerably at around 6000km plus.

Good luck. I give an update once I have done a tank or 2 with the scanguage which is usually pretty accurate.

 

Doug

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