Excessive exhaust smoke

[knightal]

Hi

I have recently bought a 2007 Toyota Aurion Sportivo SX6 it has 150 klm's on the speedo.

All is good driving around town, however when traveling on the highway at speeds of 100 - 110km/hr after about 20 minutes if I stop at a rest center and then take off out into the traffic upon accelerating there is a huge amount of  excessive exhaust smoke.

Then the following morning at startup if I rev it up as in the video attachment the same can be seen to happen.

The car has a 3 month warranty and it has been back to the Toyota dealership and they replaced the PCV valve but this obviously was not the problem.

Can anyone suggest anything else that could  cause this problem?  

Toyota_Exhaust2[1].mp4

[CHA54]

valve stem seals is my bet. Get it compression tested to ensure it's not a ring/piston issue and check the valvetrain isn't sludged up under the cam which would indicate poor service history

Edited March 20, 2016 by CHA54

[knightal]

45 minutes ago, CHA54 said:

valve stem seals is my bet. Get it compression tested to ensure it's not a ring/piston issue and check the valvetrain isn't sludged up under the cam which would indicate poor service history

HI

Yes the log books show that a lot of the services were not done.

The car was bought from Ballina  and I had this happen on the way home, took it to the Toyota dealership and they replaced the PCV valve. I took it for a long drive yesterday to test things out at their suggestion and had the same problem.

I'm not all that mechanically minded so hopefully they will check what you have described, it is covered under the warranty. The car is booked into the local Toyota dealership here in Port Macquarie this Wednesday.

Thanks for your info much appreciated.

[mg85]

Hi Allan,

Let us know how you get on ay, as you have no doubt discovered scheduled servicing is paramount on most modern cars.

[knightal]

6 minutes ago, mg85 said:

Hi Allan,

Let us know how you get on ay, as you have no doubt discovered scheduled servicing is paramount on most modern cars.

Hi

Yes you are right re the service.  I just had a call from the Toyota service manager.

They have removed the top parts of the motor so as to see inside the engine, and have done a complete engine flush. Drained all the old oil and changed the oil filter.

He said that the motor looks all ok and they are happy that it should be fine now, wants to keep it for another night to give a cold start in the morning. They have had it for three days so hopefully all should be good. I'll go for another trip to test it all out and let you know how it all ends up.

Appreciate the info from everyone here.

Regards

Allan

[KAA]

Hi Allan good too hear that they are hopefully solving the issue for you..keep us up to speed as to the outcome mate

KAA

Edited March 23, 2016 by KAA

[CHA54]

I wish you the best but in my experience, with an engine smoking that bad an engine flush and oil change will do nothing to resolve the source of the problem (Valve Stem Seals or ring problem)

[knightal]

On 23/3/2016 at 8:30 PM, CHA54 said:

I wish you the best but in my experience, with an engine smoking that bad an engine flush and oil change will do nothing to resolve the source of the problem (Valve Stem Seals or ring problem)

Hi Guys

Would appreciate your thoughts on this update. Two short videos added.

I got the car back from the Toyota Dealership after they did an engine flush and oil change and presume they changed the oil filter as well. The PVC vale has also been replaced.

Took the car for a 2 hour drive on the highway so as to run at 110kms/hour we stopped at a rest stop for about 10 mins, took off and all seemed OK no huge plumes of smoke as on previous occasions.

The two videos show small amounts of smoke at a cold start up. The the one dated 26th March is the morning after the 2 hour run, and the one dated 25th March is the morning after a short 1 hour run, with both highway and around town running.

I will take it back to Toyota on Tuesday after the Easter break and see what they have to say, but would appreciate any thoughts you have if you get to read this prior.

I should note that I don't normally rev my car like this under normal circumstances.  :)

Regards
Allan

26th March.mp4

25 March.mp4

Edited March 27, 2016 by knightal

[trentmeyer23]

How long had it sat before those videos?

I'm with CHA54 on this one, rings or valve stem seals. A leak down test would be a good idea.

[knightal]

3 minutes ago, trentmeyer23 said:

How long had it sat before those videos?

I'm with CHA54 on this one, rings or valve stem seals.

Hi trentmeyer23

It was overnight on both occasions. Say from about 4pm until about 10am next day

Regards
Allan

 

[trentmeyer23]

Did it go away/lessen after running for a while?

[knightal]

3 minutes ago, trentmeyer23 said:

Did it go away/lessen after running for a while?

Yes after the local Toyota workshop did the work previously described the smoke has reduced dramatically. I attached a video in my original post that shows what it was like. It was very bad cars behind me at that time could almost not be seen. 

 

This is what is in the service log book which was given to me when I left the car yard in Ballania. and the 150 K service was done by the car yard I bought it from.

Service history from the log book

30k    yes
37.5K  no
45K    no
52.5K  no
60K    no
67.5K  no
75K    yes
82K    no
90K    no
97.5K  no
105K   no
112.5K no
120K   no
127.5K no
135K   no
142.5k no
150k   yes

Current KM's is 150km

Regards
Allan

[knightal]

Hi this video shows what it was like. This also is the morning after I arrived home from Ballina about an 6 hour drive

Bad exhaust.mp4

[trentmeyer23]

So, it does it in the morning and goes away the more you drive during the day?

[knightal]

Yes that's right actually it is fine after the first start up.

When I picked it up from Ballina it was driven around town all day and did not have any problem until I headed home and stopped at a rest stop.

But to date yes if I was to hop in now and just drive locally round town it is fine.

Just started it there was a very small amount of smoke, it,s been parked up all day just started this morning.

Edited March 27, 2016 by knightal
add text

[trentmeyer23]

Sounds exactly like valve stem seals.

The oil pools there over long periods of the engine being switch off and burns off when started. 

It does not sit there as long when the car is running and is burnt off in smaller amounts, straight away which is barely noticable.

[knightal]

Thanks for the input you guys it is really appreciated.

I will suggest this to the (Port Macquarie)Toyota dealership. They will need to contact the yard in Ballina I guess to get the approval for the necessary work to be done.

I'll update when I know more.

Regards
Allan.

[CHA54]

That's one of the worse service histories I've ever seen where they haven't actually thrown away the log book to try and hide the history... 

I'm very confident the valve stem seals require replacing and I'll bet the combustion chambers could do with a good de-coking also.   The PCV would have been gunked up previously making the valve stem seals leak more, so replacing/cleaning the PCV would have made it a little better as it reduces the crankcase pressure on the stem seals.

If you want to re-create the smoke on the road, flick it into manual shift mode so it will hold the gear you're in, find a long downhill section and engine brake all the way down the hill.  At the bottom of the hill accelerate away and you will see a large plume of smoke out the rear.

Will be a very expensive repair bill for the car yard to cover, there's a ton of labour involved to replace all 24 seals as the valvetrain basically needs to be removed to access them (if the dealer is confident to change them with the heads on the motor)

[trentmeyer23]

I'm not sure why you would buy it with that service history.

[knightal]

On 28/3/2016 at 11:01 AM, trentmeyer23 said:

I'm not sure why you would buy it with that service history.

Yes your probably right there, bit naive on my part.

The car was sold as a one owner with full service history and I did not get the log books until I was actually leaving. 

On the up side the local Toyota dealership are still looking into the problem and the dealer in Ballina has given them the OK to continue to look into what the problem is.

I have mentioned the valve stem seal as a possible cause, however from their inspections so far they aren't ruling it out but said it's rare in the motor that's in my car.

It goes back in to the workshop next Tuesday, so I'll let you know what they find.

Regards
Allan

 

[mg85]

Thanks for keeping us informed Allan, will be interesting to see the outcome.

[trentmeyer23]

1 hour ago, knightal said:

I have mentioned the valve stem seal as a possible cause, however from their inspections so far they aren't ruling it out but said it's rare in the motor that's in my car.

It probably isn't a common issue for an engine this new that has been maintained correctly; however, this one has not.

I personally have an Aurion with similar kms and I do not have this issue, but it has always been maintained correctly.

[campbeam]

Similar experience with my 2006 Aurion ATX with 165,000KM. Apparently, the 2GR-FE engines are prone to engine sludge especially if poor quality engine oils have been used or not serviced properly. After a few Google searches, I found a post that explained that engine sludge was blocking oil channels and preventing the oil from draining properly from the valve covers, The PCV valve is then sucking the oil into the intake and this explains why there is exhaust smoke when you first start the engine. Later on a trip to Wagga Wagga, I noticed a significant blue smoke screen when accelerating hard on the highway. Engine oil level was full in the morning and mid afternoon after travelling 600km the oil level was below the low level.

One quick solution is to either replace or remove the 2 valve covers and soak them in degreaser to remove the accumulated oil sludge in the oil channels. The PCV valve also needs to be cleaned so it can operate freely.

Before dismantling the engine, I have desludged the engine a few times. During the return trip from Wagga Wagga to Brisbane, I added about 500ml of diesel before leaving and again after 600km. The new engine oil was totally black and the new oil filter cartridge was clogged with small black soot like particles. I replaced the engine oil and filter cartridge plus 500ml of diesel and checked after 500km. Again the oil filter cartridge was blocked with particles and the engine oil replaced. After further Google searches, I found a posting suggesting using 500ml of auto transmission fluid for oil sludge removal as an alternative to diesel because it contains cleaning additives. I did this and after recently returning from another trip to Wagga Wagga [2600 KM], I have just replaced the oil filter cartridge and topped up the engine loi level with more ATF. Inside the valve cover and side of the valve train is totally clean with no evidence of oil sludge. The excessive exhaust smoke is now totally gone. More Google searches suggested using a synthetic oil to reduce and minimise oil sludge.

Also according to an ex Toyota Dealership worker, the 2GR-FE engines, if properly maintained, should last about 400,000 km before requiring any rebuild work.

So maybe the dealer should consider adding a commercial engine flush product and have you drive around for 125km before returning the vehicle for another oil and filter change. This should reveal whether it is an oil sludge issue or the valve seals do need to be replaced.

 

 

[mg85]

Great informative (if somewhat a bit radical) post Ashley.

My personal opinion is 15,000km or 9 months of city driving is stretching the service intervals a bit for the Aurion, I see some manufacturers like Mazda are sticking to the 10,000km 6months service intervals on some of their vehicles.

[campbeam]

Related thread titled "White smoke on start up" started 9th June 2011.

Have a look at the post dated 26 August 2012 from "Leadingshield" which is what I have actioned.