E10 Fuel Economy and Power

[campbeam]

I normally use 91 Unleaded petrol in my 2006 Aurion and average 10kms/litre or slightly better.

Because of higher fuel prices in Brisbane, I topped up with E10 with 94 octane rating. I did not notice any difference and have driven 200 kms. Refill this morning was 24 litres instead of the expected 20 litres. Admittedly, with hotter weather, I have been using the air-conditioner. Still not impressed with the result. Also noticed the significant amount of air bubbles in the fuel when refuelling the Aurion. So also questioning [in my mind] the accuracy of the fuel bowser at the discount fuel station.

Just to make things more interesting, I also put about 10 litres of E10 fuel into the girlfriend's 2007 Yaris. No placebo effect because I just said that I was putting some petrol into her car. While driving, she mentioned the difference in acceleration/throttle response. 

Both of these "results"are making me consider avoid using E10 fuel. Anyone else had some recent good, bad or indifferent experience/results with E10 fuel in their Aurion?

 

[trentmeyer23]

To keep it simplified.

I believe Ethanol is the reason. It burns cleaner and is cheaper, but it requires a larger amount.

E85 is proof of this point, using up to 30%+ per tank. It is used in performance applications and with correct tuning can make a massive power increase.

[Tony Prodigy]

Can I also add that our Aurions are optimised to use E10 so don't be alarmed to use it over 91 RON.

I occasionally give it a dose of 98, not for the performance aspect, but for the high quality of fuel that is designed to "clean" the engine.

Maybe that could be a plecebo too ? I Don't know.

[campbeam]

Just now disappointed/skeptical about using E10.

Not delivering as a viable economical alternative to regular 91 unleaded petrol. Price differential needs to be 3%. E10 fuel density is 97% of regular unleaded.

Certainly not looking forward to future Govt interference in the availability of 91 RON unleaded petrol.

[trentmeyer23]

3 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

I occasionally give it a dose of 98, not for the performance aspect, but for the high quality of fuel that is designed to "clean" the engine.

The E10 probably cleans carbon deposits as good, if not better.

[Tony Prodigy]

1 hour ago, campbeam said:

Just now disappointed/skeptical about using E10.

Not delivering as a viable economical alternative to regular 91 unleaded petrol. Price differential needs to be 3%. E10 fuel density is 97% of regular unleaded.

Certainly not looking forward to future Govt interference in the availability of 91 RON unleaded petrol.

Can you ask you a leading question ?

Are you a Scientist ?

[campbeam]

13 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Are you a Scientist ?

I can readily comprehend a scientific or academic paper. I did a full science course of mathematics, biology, chemistry and physics at High School. Then studied Accounting, Management at University. Then did a career change to IT. Currently working in a Business Analyst role which is essentially problem solving. So I very used to researching, determining options and final solution..

Alternative fuels and efficiencies is one topic that has interested me for the past few years. The attachment about octane boost mentions density and energy per unit volume.

MAKE YOUR OWN OCTANE BOOST.doc

[Tony Prodigy]

5 hours ago, campbeam said:

I can readily comprehend a scientific or academic paper. I did a full science course of mathematics, biology, chemistry and physics at High School. Then studied Accounting, Management at University. Then did a career change to IT. Currently working in a Business Analyst role which is essentially problem solving. So I very used to researching, determining options and final solution..

Alternative fuels and efficiencies is one topic that has interested me for the past few years. The attachment about octane boost mentions density and energy per unit volume.

MAKE YOUR OWN OCTANE BOOST.doc

Cool. You seem like an intelligent person so I assumed you had some background in this department.

I appreciate the info you put out. 

[campbeam]

I learnt a lot from the posts from Toyota Nation which can be quite detailed with step by step instructions and lots of photos.

When looking at some other car forums, quite unimpressed. The really useful posts are those that are based upon facts and/or real life experience. 

[ZZT86]

Ethanol is great for the enthusiast or performance/track car, its high resistance to knock means the ecu can be tuned to run far more advanced timing & with the absence of knock the ecu isn't pulling the timing back to control it, ie: car acceleration is great & uninterupted, whereas with lesser fuels like 91 & even 98 the ecu is usually always slowing you down cos our petrol in this country is crap. The downside of E is that it generates less energy per given volume thus using more of it - around 25-30% more which is the reason why the OP has worse economy. Ethanol is also a great solvent keeping your engine clean.

Essentially E is a performance fuel, not used for economy, it is also much cleaner burning than petrol.

Edited January 17, 2017 by ZZT86

[campbeam]

54 minutes ago, ZZT86 said:

The downside of E is that it generates less energy per given volume thus using more of it - around 25-30% more which is the reason why the OP has worse economy. Ethanol is also a great solvent keeping your engine clean.

Confirms what I was thinking about economy. More a case of considering the other benefits of using an ethanol-petrol mix i.e. clean engine carbon deposits.

[ZZT86]

Horses for courses buddy, you wouldn't loose much economy using E10, it's cheaper for them to produce although also cheaper to buy. With E85 it's a different story but still cheaper than the best 98 be it Ultimate or VPower but the biggest difference is not only the cleaner air but the big gains in torque & hp plus that feeling of almost instant acceleration.

[campbeam]

3 hours ago, ZZT86 said:

loose much economy using E10

Theoretically, I should have expected to lose about 3-4% economy not 20%.

Even taking into account increased usage of the air-conditioner, I would not have expected such a difference. Maybe other members have experienced the same or not at all.

Anyway, now quite suspicious of the amount of aeration in the E10 fuel from the bowser pump when refilling the tank.

https://www.allianz.com.au/car-insurance/news/ethanol-versus-petrol-faq

[trentmeyer23]

4 hours ago, campbeam said:

Theoretically, I should have expected to lose about 3-4% economy not 20%.

Theoretically Communism works, but we won't go any further into that.

The only thing that matters is real world performance and economy. 

You could run an few tanks through to get a more accurate result. Unless you drain the tank entirely, you will still have 10+ litres of existing fuel in the tank, even with the fuel light on.

[campbeam]

42 minutes ago, trentmeyer23 said:

The only thing that matters is real world performance and economy. 

You could run an few tanks through to get a more accurate result.

Agree, real world results vs theoretical expectations. Certainly questioning the accuracy of the first result; too many variables/factors.

Most likely going back to unleaded 91.