Towing with Gvm upgrade

[DanGen2018]

Hello together, 

 

I own a 2015 hilux double cab with a gvm upgrade to 3300 kilo. 

 

I am wondering if the car is still strong/stabil enough to tow a small camper like a jayco swan / eagle outback. 

 

someone just told me the steel is just not strong enough and it will man brake right in the middle. 

we got a heavy construct on the back of the car as you can see on the picture. 

sorry for my English, it's not my mother language. 

 

cheers  Daniel 

[CONROD]

The best and really ONLY person who can answer all your enquiries is those who performed the upgrade.

The vehicle should have a Compliance plate stating the increased GVM upgrade and who installed / signed off on the fitment.

Not sure of the load you have onboard in the tray but That shot on the beach shows it sitting bloody nice with next to no drop in the rear 

Edited December 28, 2018 by CONROD

[DanGen2018]

thanks CONROD, I just sent them a email, will see what he says... 

 

maybe I will drive the car to a public weight bridge, and see how heavy it is, so we get a approximately idea how heavy the canopy is... 

 

yeah, there is not much drop in the back, he got a pedders suspension. 

on the picture, about 80liters water 150liters fuel.... + food, kitchen, 2 tyers....

[GC_AUS]

Hi Daniel,

Hilux's do break in the middle - usually on that model the chassis at the back of the cabin where the tray starts.

In my experience its always been obvious for some reason or another:=

• 1.       Gross overloading

• 2  Point loading on the chassis

 

The overloading is an obvious thing to be careful about & only one answer which is travel light. Sometimes the overloading is behind the rear axle & so the chassis flexes & work hardens if you like to the point where it just cracks from repeated flexing - just like you can do with a fork in your kitchen by bending back n forth etc. sometimes it’s the reverse where the car is loaded in between axles & same result. The first results in a "camel car" - second results in a sagging in the middle "old horse" look.

Either way this is obvious to the Hilux observer from a distance because the car is bent one way or another.

 

The point loading is more complicated. The ones I have seen have sometimes had airbags fitted  & the chassis breaks at the top of the arch over the rear axle where the airbags are mounted & others at the front spring hanger  & the crack appears usually just above the front weld of the hanger bracket. Sometimes with heavier rear springs & so the apparent ability to carry more weight without considering the consequences….

 

I have to point out these vehicles have all been after outback use on reasonably rough tracks like the Simpson French line or lots of corrugations with road tyre pressures in the rear of the vehicle.

Simple rule of thumb = reduce weight, consider tyre pressures & adjust accordingly, change the vehicle if its not suitable for the job required.

 

Don’t get me wrong - Hilux's are brilliant vehicles BUT they are a light truck with semi floating axles & components designed for the task intended. If you really need a heavier vehicle then consider a LandCruiser model with full floating axles or another equivalent vehicle. With common sense & a careful approach your vehicle looks fine from the pics but just don’t get tempted into thinking you can take everything & not pay the price.

 

Go find a weighbridge & weigh the front & rear axles & then compare to what the rating is in your handbook so you have a starting point to work from.  Also don’t necessarily listen to every "knocker" you find on the road - IE: check it for yourself & then you have peace of mind which will give you confidence in the vehicle as well.     Given you have a 3300KG GVM you have a clear point of reference etc. - you might have done this by now?

 

Rgds

G.

[DanGen2018]

Hello G. 

 

we will be at pedders  (they made my rear suspension) and they will tell me about the weight in the back and front of the car / axle. 

I will post the results here. 

 

 

thank you for your advice. 

 

cheers Daniel 

[GC_AUS]

no worries -

Pedders are reputable so i think you should be fine

most rubbish tips have a weighbridge & just look up "public weighbridge" & you could find one later of you need it

a good indicator is how much pressure you find you need in the tyres to look ok on the road - depending on the tyres of course...

Gary.

 

[DanGen2018]

On the road with our tiny little baby tyres we need +-45 psi that it is looking nice and round. 

 

we hope they just tell us tomorrow we will be fine to tow a small camper trailer. 

 

otherwise we may have to sell the car in perth, and buy a otherone just for towing... 

 

cheers Daniel 

[GC_AUS]

Not sure if this is the exact model of your Lux but a bit of info for you = https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/details/2015-toyota-hilux-sr5-auto-4x4-double-cab/SPOT-ITM-425983/

& a nice chart by Beadell tours here - http://www.beadelltours.com.au/payloads.html  - lots of other stuff on that site you might find interesting as well.

So…. A small camper trailer should be in the vicinity of 1000Kg's ?    assuming you & partner + baby arent more than say 500Kg….        I'm sure you're not!! 😉  then with the GVM at 3300 you should still have plenty of capacity in your setup

You could look at putting the Lux on a weight loss campaign & remove the rear seat or any other weight not required when traveling.

Lux's are good things so don’t get freaked out - again common sense & loaded right they can cope with heaps but just don’t smash it on the rough roads & you should do fine. Make sure its legal for other states who do roadside inspections & all good.

Look - you are thinking of this which is more than a lot of people do so don’t get lost in the detail. Do your checks for sure & remember its not camping if you have the entire house in the back of the Lux - that’s what caravans are for…

[GC_AUS]

oh - i forgot - try this for your tyres = https://www.tyrereview.com.au/tyre-advice/the-4psi-rule

a bit of experimenting & you'll figure it out

 

[DanGen2018]

 Hello, Quick Update after i Visited pedders. 

 

the mechanic told me that I may have to change my 7leaf heavy duty rear suspension to a airbag system - 1200 dollar. so it will carry the weight different. 

I still didn't make it to a weight bridge, but I will l within the next days... 

 

thanks for any advice Daniel 

[GC_AUS]

Hi Daniel,

Hmmmmm…..      ok…

I might suggest you should get a second opinion

Try these guys who all will happily look at the vehicle & try to sell you their product   - do your homework & have a bit of patience I might add. That vehicle looks pretty well set up already so someone has put in a bit of effort there.

https://www.efs4wd.com.au/find-4wd-suspension/vehicleapplications?series=152

https://www.tjmperth.com.au/vehicle/toyota/hilux/2011-2015-2/category/suspension-kit/

https://www.westraliasprings.com.au/4wd-suspension/

 

I have airbags on my troopy & I have to say I am not a fan. They put a point load onto the top of the axle housing & also to the chassis as I mentioned last msg. in practice I only use the airbags to level the vehicle & the leaf springs which are also up rated over standard do the main work. My other vehicles are set up with heavy duty springs / no airbags & I think this is a much better alternative IE: it places the load where the chassis is designed to take it etc.

We travel remote outback with no support so its got to work & be reliable.  Airbags are also prone to damage or holes from grit / mud / rocks / sticks etc so it is something to consider carefully depending on your area of travel.

best thing you can do is get a weighbridge certificate so you know exactly what the vehicle is carrying then work through the problem etc. I know I said that but it’s the best starting point for you.

my opinion is to change the rear leaf spring pack to a heavier set before airbags. You might also be able to add a leaf or two so worthwhile seeing someone who does resetting or custom work like Westralia on the link above.  resetting or adding a leaf or two should be a lot less that $1200-  so its worth a look.

And of course go through the gear you have onboard & think do i really need that…..

You might get some good ideas from a guy called Ronny Dahl if you haven't found him = here - https://youtu.be/ta0xWzwbEeg   the guy does some big trips & knows WA pretty well - some good common sense there to be had.

Have a watch of this one as well  https://youtu.be/uZPdzWsNotY

 

I have no idea of your level of experience so if you know these things then gloss over of course.

You're not the only one who has had this spring problem btw so dont despair - there is an answer!

rgds

G.

[DanGen2018]

Hello together, 

 

I was on a weight bridge... car full stocked, 80 litre water + 145 litre diesel. 

 

2 persons and all our gear. 

03.08 Tons in total 

01.34 Tons in front 

01.74 Tons on the back

 

what do you think? 

 

cheers Daniel 

[GC_AUS]

Morning Daniel,

So this gives you 220Kg left for snacks & the baby…?  Should be enough I think??

Just check out the GCM = Gross combined mass for your vehicle which will be in the manual or on the compliance plate. It may have a modification plate which has an updated number so look for that too.

A bit late perhaps but it would have been good to weigh the camper trailer as well then you have all the answers.

Here's a couple of  good articles for you =

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/why-payloads-and-tow-ratings-should-be-taken-with-a-grain-of-salt-36434

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/why-a-3500kg-tow-rating-may-not-really-be-a-3500kg-tow-rating/

happy travels!

G.