Suspension upgrade/tyres

[Metal_Head 45]

Oh, so this car hasn't gone in for an alignment after the new suspension was fitted? 

If not, they should've done at all at the same time 😳

[donnot 27]

2 hours ago, campbeam said:

As mentioned in a previous post, the caster angle needs to be adjusted to achieve a self centreing action in the steering.  

I have not done this for quite some time. After driving hard through a roundabout, upon exiting I would let go of the steering wheel and it would self-centre very quickly. 

I posted my recent wheel alignment printouts in this thread and the latest one shows the target specifications.

https://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/13268-wheel-alignment-specs/page/6/#comments

I might talk to them about this next time I'm there. Was told it's not as responsive because the control arms are lower/at a different angle. It still returns to centre - just slowly or not quite (at very slow speeds, not at all). Before lowering, it'd snap back in 1/2 a second coming out of a roundabout and was really responsive - aligned by the same person. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by donnot

[donnot 27]

Another photo showing the unladen height (without old tyres in the back). Pretty stoked with how it's turned out! https://imgur.com/Yai7RUo

1 hour ago, Metal_Head said:

Oh, so this car hasn't gone in for an alignment after the new suspension was fitted? 

If not, they should've done at all at the same time 😳

Had it aligned again today - feels pretty much the same as before. Seems to pull left sometimes and pull right others (not related to the camber of the road - much more aggressive than that). It's as if the alignment has a bit of 'play' in it (I noticed it pulled very slightly left out of shop as it should, then after taking a corner it started pulling right...then left again).  Haven't done extensive enough testing to properly know if this is the case though. 

[Metal_Head 45]

Looks good 👍

[donnot 27]

I've attached my alignment specs here: 

Alignment before lowering (initial = before new bushings + rack end, final = after bushings + rack end) in one file Al...pdf.

Alignment after lowering (initial = after lowering but before new tyres, final = after new tyres were installed) in the other Sec....pdf. 

Caster seems to be at its maximum according to the spec after lowering. No issues with steering/responsiveness/return to centre after the alignment following bushings & rack end - only started after lowering. 

Alignment - before lowering (after installing bushes).pdf Second alignment after lowering.pdf

Edited October 31, 2020 by donnot

[Metal_Head 45]

From a brief Google search, bushes that are binding can cause the issue too. I've lowered a few cars and never had them steer differently. 

I Know It must be frustrating, but there has to be a cause, and can be fixed, ah the joy of cars. 

[campbeam 525]

Just had a look at your alignment specifications. I was expecting that there would be toe out not a 0.00 measurement. From many years ago [30+], I had a wheel alignment done on my Honda Civic with 0.00 toe. I went for a drive that night and on the highway it was "jumping"across lanes. Definitely back the next day and they changed the toe out to 1.00mm. Problem solved for that particular vehicle.

5 hours ago, Metal_Head said:

From a brief Google search, bushes that are binding can cause the issue too. I've lowered a few cars and never had them steer differently. 

I Know It must be frustrating, but there has to be a cause, and can be fixed, ah the joy of cars. 

There speaks a voice of experience which is what I think a car forum should be about.

I would be putting the car up on ramps and giving all of the suspension bushings plenty of silicone spray then see if that is the magical cure. Otherwise back to the places that did the work on your vehicle for them to check that suspension bolts etc. are still torqued to specifications.

[donnot 27]

21 minutes ago, campbeam said:

Just had a look at your alignment specifications. I was expecting that there would be toe out not a 0.00 measurement. From many years ago [30+], I had a wheel alignment done on my Honda Civic with 0.00 toe. I went for a drive that night and on the highway it was "jumping"across lanes. Definitely back the next day and they changed the toe out to 1.00mm. Problem solved for that particular vehicle.

There speaks a voice of experience which is what I think a car forum should be about.

I would be putting the car up on ramps and giving all of the suspension bushings plenty of silicone spray then see if that is the magical cure. Otherwise back to the places that did the work on your vehicle for them to check that suspension bolts etc. are still torqued to specifications.

Interesting - I'll probably end up taking it back once more and if they can't solve it, I'll go to a proper suspension-only shop and they might have some better ideas. Posted a question on the askmechanics subreddit which might give me some more ideas. 

Does anyone else running a lowered setup (coilovers or springs) on their Aurion have this same issue? 

[campbeam 525]

2 minutes ago, donnot said:

Interesting - I'll probably end up taking it back once more and if they can't solve it, I'll go to a proper suspension-only shop and they might have some better ideas. Posted a question on the askmechanics subreddit which might give me some more ideas. 

Does anyone else running a lowered setup (coilovers or springs) on their Aurion have this same issue? 

The other thought that I was going to specifically mention was the possibility of the ball joints not being properly seated in the steering knuckle and tightened correctly. Another one of my past experiences.

[Metal_Head 45]

I personally wouldn't go back there unless it was to have a whinge after another place who knows wat they're doing has found the issue. From what you've said, that car is unsafe to drive

Edited November 1, 2020 by Metal_Head

[donnot 27]

I think the issue (re: pulling left/right) may be the problem commonly called 'memory steering' - i.e. taking a reasonably hard corner right will make it pull right. Pulled right quite aggressively every time I turned right down the same street on my way home (a reasonably hard right). 

Will need to do some more testing (more left turns etc) to confirm this once it's not so wet. Very interesting...

[donnot 27]

Probably going to be the final update in a while here! Done a lot of driving over the past couple of days. 

New tyres are absolutely amazing - near impossible to lose grip (I haven't been able to with launches/normal driving), so no VSC intervention etc. Can pull out onto roads with a lot more confidence now (not going to be an idiot of course). Took it up to the hills and wow - suspension and tyres have completely transformed the car. Feels smoother over most roads, yet firm but I definitely feel the occasional large dips more.

Still above legal height (based on lowest part of exhaust) and no scrubbing with half a tank of fuel and 4 people (2 in the front and 2 back) but wasn't driving too aggressively. 

Overall, would definitely recommend the combo (KYB Excel-G Struts, Pedders Sportsryder's (front + rear), CH-R wheels, 235/45R18 RE003's, Ultra Racing Rear Sway bar + Front Strut bar). Spent around $3.3k all up (a bit over $2k if you exclude wheels and tyres) including labour which I'm pretty happy with. 

Going to get the suspension checked out later on in the week to see if they can sort out the pulling left/right issue (confirmed it pulls based on the last turn). Don't think there's much they can do with the slow return-to-centre after some discussion (castor is at its maximum) but I'll see... May go elsewhere for a second opinion.  

 

Thanks all for the great advice! Really appreciate everything.

Edited November 2, 2020 by donnot

[Metal_Head 45]

Let us know how u go with the steering issue, I'm sure someone can find why it's doing it

And it's great to see u happy with it, money well spent 👍

Edited November 2, 2020 by Metal_Head

[Tony Prodigy 531]

6 hours ago, donnot said:

New tyres are absolutely amazing - near impossible to lose grip (I haven't been able to with launches/normal driving), so no VSC intervention etc. Can pull out onto roads with a lot more confidence now (not going to be an idiot of course). Took it up to the hills and wow - suspension and tyres have completely transformed the car. Feels smoother over most roads, yet firm but I definitely feel the occasional large dips more.

 

6 hours ago, donnot said:

Overall, would definitely recommend the combo (KYB Excel-G Struts, Pedders Sportsryder's (front + rear), CH-R wheels, 235/45R18 RE003's, Ultra Racing Rear Sway bar + Front Strut bar). Spent around $3.3k all up (a bit over $2k if you exclude wheels and tyres) including labour which I'm pretty happy with. 

Glad to hear you're happy and it all worked out for you Luke. It's money well spent I reckon. Everything adds up into a nice package and you've improved it both cosmetically and safety wise.

Lowered cars will occasionally give adverse reactions over the bad sections of road but that's a small price to pay.

Look forward to hear what they find with your castor issue there.

Well done mate 

[donnot 27]

Well...took it back today and they adjusted the struts and re-aligned. Less camber in the front. Seems to drive nicer, but still pulls based on the turn :(. If I give it a strong, quick yank in the opposite direction, it'll correct itself. Was pulling really aggressively right at one point. Not sure if it's related to the castor - shop suggested installing the offset castor bushings (both with the offset, not just one to correct the 'pull left' issue). 

Will probably take it to a local suspension specialist - the alignment seems great once I've been driving on the highway for a bit but I don't think there will be much progress with the 'memory steer' issue by taking it back (and I will just be wasting their time). They've done a great job with my cars previously, so not complaining - maybe just not as experienced with lowered cars. 

[Metal_Head 45]

Damn. 

Thanks for the update, & here's hoping the next one will be success. You would have to assume the way the wheels are holding after the corners will increase tyre wear 😞

[donnot 27]

Suspension shop said there was nothing wrong with it (they're very well-respected), so I'm happy with that. They said there was a bit of play in the steering column, but better than most (apparently a common problem in this car), so that may be what was causing it to pull in one direction. 

After a longer drive, I can't really notice it pulling unless I take my hands off the steering wheel. Tyres are definitely going to wear a lot faster, but definitely worth it. 

Also, the rear lower side bars (4 point) from Ultra Racing (their Malaysian eBay store) were just delivered in under a week. Cheaper than the AU store and didn't have to wait >a month for delivery like last time (though they don't have many of the parts available). Will post if there's much of an improvement once fitted. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by donnot

[campbeam 525]

16 hours ago, donnot said:

Suspension shop said there was nothing wrong with it (they're very well-respected), so I'm happy with that. They said there was a bit of play in the steering column, but better than most (apparently a common problem in this car), so that may be what was causing it to pull in one direction. 

After a longer drive, I can't really notice it pulling unless I take my hands off the steering wheel. Tyres are definitely going to wear a lot faster, but definitely worth it. 

Also, the rear lower side bars (4 point) from Ultra Racing (their Malaysian eBay store) were just delivered in under a week. Cheaper than the AU store and didn't have to wait >a month for delivery like last time (though they don't have many of the parts available). Will post if there's much of an improvement once fitted. 

There should not be play in the steering column. Please do a search on this Forum for the intermediate shaft issue. I have applied spray silicone grease onto that part. I do recall a post on that thread that mentioned the solution was to replace the special bolts on that shaft. 

Interested to hear how well those rear lower side bars work out. Probably going to be a bit difficult to notice any improvement. 

[donnot 27]

4 hours ago, campbeam said:

There should not be play in the steering column. Please do a search on this Forum for the intermediate shaft issue. I have applied spray silicone grease onto that part. I do recall a post on that thread that mentioned the solution was to replace the special bolts on that shaft. 

Interested to hear how well those rear lower side bars work out. Probably going to be a bit difficult to notice any improvement. 

Ah, I remember reading up on that when I first got the car. Knocking/play was horrendously bad, but after taking the car to the dealer for the Oil Cooler pipe recall, it was almost fixed. Will do some more research. Thanks!

I've read some good things about the side bars in the Camry, but not expecting miracles 😄

Edited November 11, 2020 by donnot

[donnot 27]

Update again! Springs seem to have softened up :(. Super comfortable and still handles okay though. Put the Remsa Ultra Ceramic pads on front and back a few days ago (as well as DBA slotted rotors on front, basic on back), bedded them in over a couple of days and had a cruise today.

Initial bite is very good (perhaps partially due to doing a complete bleed + flush of the brakes) but I feel that I have to work the pedal a bit harder/don't quite have as much confidence. 

Had a lot of fun though! Would've been in a lot of trouble with the old suspension setup. 

[Tony Prodigy 531]

4 minutes ago, donnot said:

Update again! Springs seem to have softened up :(. Super comfortable and still handles okay though. Put the Remsa Ultra Ceramic pads on front and back a few days ago (as well as DBA slotted rotors on front, basic on back), bedded them in over a couple of days and had a cruise today.

Initial bite is very good (perhaps partially due to doing a complete bleed + flush of the brakes) but I feel that I have to work the pedal a bit harder/don't quite have as much confidence. 

Had a lot of fun though! Would've been in a lot of trouble with the old suspension setup. 

Thanks for the update Luke. Unusual you should mention the finding with the Remsa pads though. I have the same pads and they feel very reassuring. Mind you I don't have the slotted rotors, only the standard DBA ones, which seem to be more than adequate. I did a full brake fluid flush not that long ago when I replaced both front and rear pads. Re lubed the sliding pins too. 

[donnot 27]

4 minutes ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Thanks for the update Luke. Unusual you should mention the finding with the Remsa pads though. I have the same pads and they feel very reassuring. Mind you I don't have the slotted rotors, only the standard DBA ones, which seem to be more than adequate. I did a full brake fluid flush not that long ago when I replaced both front and rear pads. Re lubed the sliding pins too. 

It might take a few weeks to form a proper opinion once they're fully set in 😅 though I gave them a good working today. They definitely feel more linear up until the point when I really need to work them (if that makes sense). 

My slide pins were pretty much stuck on the back rotors, so I cleaned everything and re-lubed. Pads had a lot more wear on one side than the other, so can't stress cleaning/re-lubing enough!

[Tony Prodigy 531]

9 minutes ago, donnot said:

My slide pins were pretty much stuck on the back rotors, so I cleaned everything and re-lubed. Pads had a lot more wear on one side than the other, so can't stress cleaning/re-lubing enough!

100 % correct. On one side of the fronts on my car, the inner pad was worn much more than the outer and the "bendix Ceramic Lube" I used previously had hardened to the point it became a sticky goo causing the pins to bind. I did start to notice the front brakes were very 'bity' when cold during the crawl out of the driveway. Don't use the Bendix lube. It is rubbish. I ended up using moly grease instead.

[donnot 27]

27 minutes ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Don't use the Bendix lube. It is rubbish. I ended up using moly grease instead.

Uh oh... Was looking into moly and copper based but ended up with the Bendix. Though, I don't think the pads will last long enough for the grease to go bad 😄. 

[Tony Prodigy 531]

5 minutes ago, donnot said:

Uh oh... Was looking into moly and copper based but ended up with the Bendix. Though, I don't think the pads will last long enough for the grease to go bad 😄. 

That's what I thought. The Bendix grease will probably go bad after 12 months or so. If you start feeling that 'bity' feel on the pedal when it's stone cold, that would be the tell tale sign. It's up to you if you want to wait or if you have time now to do it. I thought it would be a good thing using this fancy "ceramic" grease and it turned out to be a dud. I even bought a box of the stuff and still have several unused satchels left that I will never use again. Waste of money.