Transmission shifting - 2017 Aurion Sportivo

[VeradaMan]

Hi guys, 

I’m going to see Toyota about this but thought I’d ask it here anyway and I’ll explain it as best as I can. 
2017 Sportivo with 26k on the clock. Has been taken care of very well. Just recently I noticed the transmission behaving differently when the car warms up.

I always let the car warm up a little bit before I set off from a cold start. The shifts are short, snappy and smooth, just like they’re supposed to be. 

However, when the car has been at operating temperature a little bit, the transmission starts behaving a bit sluggish, especially between 3/4 and 4/5, mainly between the 1-2k rpm range. If I floor it, the shifting is quite snappy. However, if I’m just driving normally, the shifting is definitely not as snappy. 

It also does this thing where after the rpms drop when the next gear is engaged, there’s a little jump in rpms and back down again before resuming acceleration. This is particularly apparent under light throttle at speeds around 30-40km/h. Rpms go down after the gear change, then jump around 300rpm, and then back down again, then normal acceleration ensues. 

I tried putting into sport mode, and the shifting was much sharper, but there is still some rpm hunting, definitely not as bad. 

Could it be something with the programming or maybe it’s slightly low in fluid? 

I’m going to get Toyota to look at it, because I don’t remember this happening a few weeks ago. 
 

Edited October 16, 2020 by VeradaMan

[ZZT86]

Howdy,

I have the exact same car as you albeit a few months older along the production line. So you bought the car brand new ? If not then perhaps ATF needs attention/checking but find it hard to imagine since it's virtually brand new with negligible kms.

The only thing I can say is that with a very light foot/throttle & low revs the tranny can be somewhat slack/slow, I think it's in the cars nature or as a servicing dealer technician would say "normal characteristic". So yeah it's in the ECU tune for the ATM. Generally I hardly notice the shifts & they're usually quick & smooth with the tranny inclined to upshift into top gear as soon as possible. The hunting issue I haven't noticed on my car though.

I suspect it's still under warranty, if just out of it no doubt Toyota would assist you regardless.

Edited October 16, 2020 by ZZT86

[matt36415]

Search ‘flaring’ here and the gen 6 forum - same engine and transmission. This might be what you are experiencing 

[AurionX2]

Sounds like shift flare, possibly low on fluid. When does is happen more often, when cold or at normal running temp? First thing first, check for obvious signs of fluid loss. One word of caution: try to find a reputable, trustworthy Toyota service centre, they're not all the same. Besides, it's anyone's guess whether you'll be able to replicate the flare when driving the car with a service technician around the block or not.

[VeradaMan]

Thanks for the replied everyone 

It happens when the car is warm. No issues when the car is cold and getting up to operating temp. 

Car is still under warranty. 

[campbeam]

20 minutes ago, VeradaMan said:

Thanks for the replied everyone 

It happens when the car is warm. No issues when the car is cold and getting up to operating temp. 

Car is still under warranty. 

Based upon my limited experience, I would be confident in saying that the fluid level is not low. If the fluid level was low, I would expect having shifting issues when the ATF is cold.

Toyota service Centre will need to scan the ATM computer control unit to check for any codes relating to the change solenoids and sensors. There could be an issue with the electrical connections for the shift solenoids that only occurs when the ATF is at operating temperature.  

[VeradaMan]

1 hour ago, campbeam said:

Based upon my limited experience, I would be confident in saying that the fluid level is not low. If the fluid level was low, I would expect having shifting issues when the ATF is cold.

Toyota service Centre will need to scan the ATM computer control unit to check for any codes relating to the change solenoids and sensors. There could be an issue with the electrical connections for the shift solenoids that only occurs when the ATF is at operating temperature.  

This definitely seems plausible. I’m aware that most issues are worse when the car is cold so I was sceptical about it being a fluid issue. I had a feeling it was something more electrical. 
 

Thanks mate. I’ll describe the problem to the dealer just like I have here and hopefully they’ll be able to fix it. 

[campbeam]

4 minutes ago, VeradaMan said:

I’ll describe the problem to the dealer just like I have here and hopefully they’ll be able to fix it. 

I am expecting that the Dealer will look at any Service Bulletins and most likely update the transmission control software. If that does not solve the issue, next step is to consider whether a replacement of the valve body is required. Just as well the vehicle is under warranty.

[VeradaMan]

1 hour ago, campbeam said:

I am expecting that the Dealer will look at any Service Bulletins and most likely update the transmission control software. If that does not solve the issue, next step is to consider whether a replacement of the valve body is required. Just as well the vehicle is under warranty.

Warranty ends in Jan. 

I plan on jumping on this straight after exams. Just went for a longish drive and it performed ok with smooth changes and none of that funny business. 

Hopefully a reset will fix it. I baby the thing, so it’s not flogged either. Can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve pushed it above 4 grand haha. 

[Tony Prodigy]

On 10/17/2020 at 5:49 PM, VeradaMan said:

Hopefully a reset will fix it. I baby the thing, so it’s not flogged either. Can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve pushed it above 4 grand haha. 

Hopefully is something temporary or at the least very minor. Don't worry about giving it some stick either, it can take some punishment. Just don't lead foot it off the mark. A gradual application of the the throttle would be better. 

We're the same with our Aurion. It never gets driven hard. Don't need to with the power it so generously gives for what  little it asks.

 

[VeradaMan]

On 10/30/2020 at 12:24 PM, Tony Prodigy said:

Hopefully is something temporary or at the least very minor. Don't worry about giving it some stick either, it can take some punishment. Just don't lead foot it off the mark. A gradual application of the the throttle would be better. 

We're the same with our Aurion. It never gets driven hard. Don't need to with the power it so generously gives for what  little it asks.

 

Yeah exactly. 
 

And yeah I hope so. I’m gonna book it in for an early service and ask them to check it out. I’ll explain the issue just as I have here. 
 

The car is still doing it, so I’m not too happy at this stage. It’s not serious but it’s clearly annoying. When I drive the car away from home in the morning, nice snappy gear changes until operating temp, then it starts to get sluggish for some reason. 
 

If they can fix it, cool. If not, the 2021 Camry V6 is tempting, but I’ve heard even worse things about that 8-speed.....

[Tony Prodigy]

2 hours ago, VeradaMan said:

The car is still doing it, so I’m not too happy at this stage. It’s not serious but it’s clearly annoying. When I drive the car away from home in the morning, nice snappy gear changes until operating temp, then it starts to get sluggish for some reason. 

Did you buy it new Mat ? If not, how long have you owned it before this started to happen ?

I have heard that by disconnecting the battery and leaving off for some time it can reset the ECU and may rid the car of any intermittent issues. Maybe worth a try before you take it in.

2 hours ago, VeradaMan said:

If they can fix it, cool. If not, the 2021 Camry V6 is tempting, but I’ve heard even worse things about that 8-speed.....

I'm sure they can fix it, whatever it may be. I too would love the new Camry V6 and I have thought about the 8 speed as well. Too many gears I reckon. It will be constantly shifting up and back constantly no ??

I seriously don't know why they had to go from a six speed to an eight speed. Fix something that isn't broken. Very strange.

I have a friend with that very car and I'll have to ask about the transmission if I remember to.

[ZZT86]

@VeradaMan  I had a thought a few hours ago when I last read your most recent post & thought throttle position - I wonder if accelerater pedal needs to be reset with comms to the throttle position sensor? This will also force the ecu to relearn pedal position as well as fuel trims & force the ATM ecu to relearn your driving style & shift points. 

Have you disconnected battery for several hours to reset engine ECU? Not sure how many you need at this moment but can find out when I get in front of my computer to see repair manual. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by ZZT86

[ZZT86]

@VeradaMan  On second thought, if you haven't - don't do it ! This will also wipe DTC data stored for Toyota techs to analyse, best take it into a dealer & let them figure it out.

Edited November 10, 2020 by ZZT86

[Tony Prodigy]

4 minutes ago, ZZT86 said:

@VeradaMan  On second thought, if you haven't - don't do it ! This will also wipe DTC data stored for Toyota techs to analyse, best take into to a dealer & let them figure it out.

Interesting. So if your battery dies and the car sits for a prolonged period, this would also be a problem ?

[ZZT86]

Good point, at worst all ecu's would reset & revert to default values for relearn, unless there's a fault.

I'm not sure how these cars work but got a sneaking suspicion they're far more intelligent than we think. Not long ago I got a new battery (cos 30% off) & I unintentionally forgot to connect a backup battery so car wouldn't loose fuel trims yada yada. Battery was disconnected for several minutes & it lost nothing, not even radio data !

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by ZZT86

[Tony Prodigy]

8 minutes ago, ZZT86 said:

I unintentionally forgot to connect a backup battery so car wouldn't loose fuel trims yada yada. Battery was disconnected for several minutes & it lost nothing, not even radio data !

I also did my battery replacement a few years ago ago and the couple of minutes it took had no effect on anything. Everything functioned as normal. Maybe there is a capacitance charge somewhere that is able to bridge the gap for a small period of time to "idiot proof" the system so it doesn't mean a visit to a dealer just to have a battery replaced. Can you imagine the outcry ??

[ZZT86]

There would be no issues, all ecu's reset to default & car should be fine. You would loose saved DTC's, fuel trims as well as ATM learned data from usage, all of which the car would re-learn within a few hundred kms of driving. 

[Tony Prodigy]

7 minutes ago, ZZT86 said:

There would be no issues, all ecu's reset to default & car should be fine. You would loose saved DTC's, fuel trims as well as ATM learned data from usage, all of which the car would re-learn within a few hundred kms of driving. 

I guess so. Maybe the occasional reset wouldn't be a bad thing. I must say, knock on wood, my Aurion has been flawless since day one of ownership. Not even the slightest hiccup, nothing. What a car !

[L4WL3SS]

On 10/30/2020 at 11:24 AM, Tony Prodigy said:

.... the power it so generously gives for what  little it asks.

 

I haven't found the same experience with mine. The transmission is "dumb" compared to other cars I've driven. Today I drove a 2014 2L honda civic 5spd, and a 2014 1.6L hyandai i30 6spd. Both cars with nearly half the power of my aurion, but using 30% light throttle they accelerate exactly the same around town. These 4 bangers are extremely touchy and love to drop down gears with minimal throttle making use of all available power. Highway overtaking sucks of course. 

My aurion seems to be obsessed with picking the highest gear possible for every situation, and needs 50% throttle to be encouraged to drop down, which then it gives too much acceleration. So bloody frustrating, that 200kw feels like 100kw unless ur taking off hard from the lights. 

[ZZT86]

Adam, I get exactly what you're saying, it's a lazy tune of the transmission, quite deliberate I would say as it needs to also satisfy the ES350 brigade.

It's different with the 50series cars with the sports shift/steering wheel paddles. I haven't really played around with mine yet, haven't even read the Owners manual as I'm too lazy, but I know the car's attitude is different when in sports mode, ie: you select when you want the gears to engage, they happen quickly & I think the steering's more sensitive too.

[VeradaMan]

Well, car is booked in on the 30th of December, which is the earliest I could get in. 

I read something on the Lexus forums which was similar to my problem. The guy had an issue with shift patterns in his ES350 with the u660e trans. Service tech adviser just told him to be a bit heavier on the throttle and it should adjust and re-learn. 

so I went on a bit of a drive yesterday and was a bit harsher on the throttle. And what do ya know? Something kinda clicked (not physically) on the way back, and the shift patterns altered and stopped doing that weird fluctuation after each change. The pattern is far more solid now, kinda like when the car is cold. 

Toyota has still booked me in for a session with the tech adviser to go on a drive and talk about the issue, so I’ll still get them to scan + inspect it, but it seems all good for now! 

And I’m not kidding when I said I baby the thing. I barely ever take rpms above the 2-2.5k range. 

This is despite me putting a catback exhaust on so I could actually hear the car a little haha

Also to answer previous questions, I haven’t had the car since new. It’s a 2017 (May build) that I bought in Feb 2019 with 16k on the odometer. So it’s basically new, sitting with 26k on it now. Only a couple of stone chips on the bonnet from the older couple in Bendigo who I bought it from. They used to use it for odd trips in the country. No dings or scuffs on the rims either. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by VeradaMan

[ZZT86]

^^ Might be what @matt36415 was referring to earlier & I do recall similar remarks back then although I never took much notice as I've been a Celica & 86 owner most my life.

It's not a very technical resolution to the problem & it does point to the ecu's learning ability 😕 Keep us posted please 😉

ps: I drive mostly like you & on fwy's so car rarely gets to do much work, I'm almost afraid to put my foot down for fear of loosing my licence, such is life living in the "Nanny State" 😐

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by ZZT86

[VeradaMan]

Just an update. 
Tranny now shifting normally. Not flaring or anything. 
 

I’ll still get the tech guy to have a look when the car is in for it’s next service, but so far so good. I was barely driving it during lockdown so maybe that’s why. 

[Tony Prodigy]

12 minutes ago, VeradaMan said:

Just an update. 
Tranny now shifting normally. Not flaring or anything. 
 

I’ll still get the tech guy to have a look when the car is in for it’s next service, but so far so good. I was barely driving it during lockdown so maybe that’s why. 

Good to hear Matt. Sometimes you need to give it a boot full occasionally to snap it out of it's lull.