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I need your advice on this subject.

Last week I put my Camry which is 12mths old and has only got just over 6000km in for the first log book service 12mths/15000 what ever comes first at Motorserve.  I was told I need an engine oil flush, I said the car is nearly new and had an oil change 6mths ago.

I was told it's part of the Toyota log book service and in the book but when I got home I looked and it's not there.  I rang Toyota and was told it's not part of any log book service.  I rang the Motorserve Manager only to be told an oil change doesn't remove the sludge at the bottom of the engine, of cause I ask what possible sludge would be in a new engine that's had two oil changes in 12mths...they claim it's necessary.

I did research this online and found, frequent oil changes makes this unnecessary.  So guys what are your views on this, have I been taken for a ride. :sad:

 

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53 minutes ago, bob007 said:

I need your advice on this subject.

Last week I put my Camry which is 12mths old and has only got just over 6000km in for the first log book service 12mths/15000 what ever comes first at Motorserve.  I was told I need an engine oil flush, I said the car is nearly new and had an oil change 6mths ago.

I was told it's part of the Toyota log book service and in the book but when I got home I looked and it's not there.  I rang Toyota and was told it's not part of any log book service.  I rang the Motorserve Manager only to be told an oil change doesn't remove the sludge at the bottom of the engine, of cause I ask what possible sludge would be in a new engine that's had two oil changes in 12mths...they claim it's necessary.

I did research this online and found, frequent oil changes makes this unnecessary.  So guys what are your views on this, have I been taken for a ride. :sad:

 

Any reason why you're not having the car serviced at a Toyota dealer under warranty?

I'm sure the cost of the service as per the capped priced servicing program should deter you from taking the car anywhere else. If Motorserve are selling you the oil flush, they are looking to milk more money from you. For such a new car, and the fact it's only covered 6,000km and an oil change was completed not long ago, I'd say it's not necessary.

Oil flushes don't necessarily hurt, as these modern engines have tighter tolerances and can benefit from a flush, only if service intervals are prolonged. Otherwise, I feel it's a waste of money in your case.

Retrieve the car if you can and pop it into a Toyota dealer so they only charge you as per the capped price and not stooge you. The dealer's service advisor was obviously being honest with you and not calling for its necessity. 

Just my 2c.

 

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Recommend that you have your car serviced at a Toyota dealer while it is still in the warranty period.

Definitely continue with oil changes every 6 months. This will make using oil flushes redundant for your new vehicle.

Main reason for doing this is because Toyota releases Service Bulletins to address known problems/issues.

 

 

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11 hours ago, bob007 said:

I was told I need an engine oil flush, I said the car is nearly new and had an oil change 6mths ago.

I was told it's part of the Toyota log book service and in the book but when I got home I looked and it's not there.  I rang Toyota and was told it's not part of any log book service.  I rang the Motorserve Manager only to be told an oil change doesn't remove the sludge at the bottom of the engine, of cause I ask what possible sludge would be in a new engine that's had two oil changes in 12mths...they claim it's necessary.

Complete and utter B.S. That manager is a scammer.

Your engine is still new and won't have any sludge at this point so it's a totally unnecessary spend. These independents will always try to upsell things you don't need. It happened to my Dad and learning this had infuriated me to the point that I now preside over the servicing for his car as well as mine. Shameless mongrels.

Let Toyota do it for you while you still have the warranty period then go find yourself an honest mechanic to take it from there unless you prefer to stick with Toyota. Just please do not follow the stupid log book service. Your 6 monthly oil change schedule is perfect regardless of kays.

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I had a very bad feeling this was a ripoff, it's a wonder they didn't tell me I deeded a fuel injection clean too. :rolleyes:

You guys are right, I should stick with Toyota for the warranty period and I will do just that. 

This is why I joined this Forum, to get good advice from people who are not trying to sell me something.  :thumbup1:

So thanks guys for your excellent advice.  :thumbup:

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3 minutes ago, bob007 said:

it's a wonder they didn't tell me I deeded a fuel injection clean too.

My poor Dad got stung with this too. Arrrghh !!

4 minutes ago, bob007 said:

This is why I joined this Forum, to get good advice from people who are not trying to sell me something.  :thumbup1:

So thanks guys for your excellent advice.  :thumbup:

You're most welcome mate. Always happy to help if possible :thumbsup:

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As always on this excellent forum the brains we have here come to the party and shame the scammers that are out there, You now know any help needed will shine through here Michael, 

Keep Well Keep Safe

KAA

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On 2/4/2021 at 4:24 PM, bob007 said:

I need your advice on this subject.

Last week I put my Camry which is 12mths old and has only got just over 6000km in for the first log book service 12mths/15000 what ever comes first at Motorserve.  I was told I need an engine oil flush, I said the car is nearly new and had an oil change 6mths ago.

I was told it's part of the Toyota log book service and in the book but when I got home I looked and it's not there.  I rang Toyota and was told it's not part of any log book service.  I rang the Motorserve Manager only to be told an oil change doesn't remove the sludge at the bottom of the engine, of cause I ask what possible sludge would be in a new engine that's had two oil changes in 12mths...they claim it's necessary.

I did research this online and found, frequent oil changes makes this unnecessary.  So guys what are your views on this, have I been taken for a ride. :sad:

 


I  know the OP's original comment has already been answered, but I still want to throw my 5 cents in :-)

- If you have capped price servicing, get your servicing done at a trusted Toyota dealership

The capped price includes everything that is a servicing requirement (like brake fluid, engine air filter, cabin filter etc), excluding wear and tear like brakes

- If you want to do a 6 monthly oil change (which I would recommend, I'll go into below as to why), I would ask a local mechanic that you trust to do it, and only do the oil and filter (use a genuine filter and keep the receipt for both the filter and the service).

The reason I would recommend doing the oil change every 6 months, is that the dealership / "bob the mechanic" only use semi-synthetic engine oil.

A semi-synthetic will really struggle to remain in spec for 12 months and 15,000 km before it starts to break down (and starts to form "sludge" which builds up over years causing big problems)

Whereas a quality full synthetic should make it to the 12 months 15,000 km mark

They should have upsold you full Synthetic engine oil, and not an "engine flush" (why sell a product to fix a problem when you can prevent it from occurring....)


Before I took my 2017 RZ Camry in for it's first service I saw this tv ad on youtube (I did search for it to post a link, but was unable to find it again)

The ad showed that Toyota USA was using Mobil 1 full synthetic oils (which would allow for that service interval which is 15,000 or 9 months),

Yet my local Toyota dealership uses a semi-synthetic (I asked), with the same servicing regime......

Given the engine sludge issues and the lawsuits that occurred in the US, and the subsequent switch to a full synthetic, it would be wise to follow suite.

Which is why even though I have capped price servicing, I have supplied my own engine oil (full synthetic) for every service since new (first oil change at 13,000km)

And since I'm OTT I even do in between oil and filter changes... 

I did regular (every 6 months or so) oil changes on my last car (05 Corolla) switching over to full synthetic for most of it (from memory after 30,000 km or so), and when I got rid of it after nearly 13 years and circa 140,000 km, when you took the oil cap off and looked inside, it looked brand new (literally like it just came out of the factory), no staining let alone any sludge.

The car also didn't use a drop of oil, and the fuel economy was unchanged since new.



All the best with your still new car :-)





 

Edited by Novicebutnice
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11 hours ago, Novicebutnice said:

The reason I would recommend doing the oil change every 6 months, is that the dealership / "bob the mechanic" only use semi-synthetic engine oil.

Excellent point.

11 hours ago, Novicebutnice said:

A semi-synthetic will really struggle to remain in spec for 12 months and 15,000 km before it starts to break down (and starts to form "sludge" which builds up over years causing big problems)

Whereas a quality full synthetic should make it to the 12 months 15,000 km mark

They should have upsold you full Synthetic engine oil, and not an "engine flush" (why sell a product to fix a problem when you can prevent it from occurring....)

The O.P. only drives very short distances and 12 months is still a bit of a stretch even on fully synthetic. Oil is cheap so there's really no excuse to drag it out that long to save a few bucks in the scheme of things. It's detrimental long term. Having said that, I do agree that the fully synthetic oil is a far more superior product to the semi.

At this point, we're not sure if the Scamserve shop offered fully synthetic oil and  engine flush as the upsell. It's typical of a shop to pull scams like this. It is immoral but it's what they need to do in order to survive in this crazy world. We can only just say no and move on. Unfortunately some people aren't informed enough and will get conned, like my father did. They gave him the deluxe treatment and it made me very cranky after reading the service reports and receipts from his last few years of ownership.

11 hours ago, Novicebutnice said:

Before I took my 2017 RZ Camry in for it's first service I saw this tv ad on youtube (I did search for it to post a link, but was unable to find it again)

The ad showed that Toyota USA was using Mobil 1 full synthetic oils (which would allow for that service interval which is 15,000 or 9 months),

It's probably best case scenario. Too many variables exist to put your total faith in this. Stop start traffic in the real world is the killer. If the car was used on open highway daily then I'd be more inclined to agree and not knocking Mobil 1 oil either. it is outstanding in quality and never goes on sale for this reason.

11 hours ago, Novicebutnice said:

Which is why even though I have capped price servicing, I have supplied my own engine oil (full synthetic) for every service since new (first oil change at 13,000km)

And since I'm OTT I even do in between oil and filter changes... 

I did regular (every 6 months or so) oil changes on my last car (05 Corolla) switching over to full synthetic for most of it (from memory after 30,000 km or so), and when I got rid of it after nearly 13 years and circa 140,000 km, when you took the oil cap off and looked inside, it looked brand new (literally like it just came out of the factory), no staining let alone any sludge.

Testament to using a fully synthetic frequently. My Aurion is exactly the same too. Take the cap off and it still look new inside, not even the faintest sign of tarnish either and it's approaching 130K.

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Once again guys thanks for your advice,  I have no idea what oil was put in my car by Motorscam as it doesn't say on the invoice.  :angry:

The oil filter used is a Cooper cartridge oil filter, is this a good filter as I have no idea.  My 2001 Corolla had the oil changed every 6mths and the engine was still going strong at 190,000km, I always use Nulon red coolant too as I never use anything cheap.

Not knowing what oil they used is a worry but it had the same oil put in 6mths ago and seems to be ok.  My next oil change is in 6mths time and will be done by Toyota and I'll ask about synthetic oils, as we say oil is cheap an engine are not.  :smile:

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3 minutes ago, bob007 said:

Once again guys thanks for your advice,  I have no idea what oil was put in my car by Motorscam as it doesn't say on the invoice.

More than likely a bulk purchase of the cheapest oil they can get their hands on. I would put money down that it wouldn't be fully synthetic.

4 minutes ago, bob007 said:

The oil filter used is a Cooper cartridge oil filter, is this a good filter as I have no idea.

It's fine. Does the job like Ryco and the rest of the aftermarket generics. If you can find Genuine Toyota oil filters at a good price, then get these, but the aftermarket ones are fine, especially if you're doing 6 monthly changes. If we come across any good Genuine Toyota oil filter deal we'll let you know.

6 minutes ago, bob007 said:

I always use Nulon red coolant too as I never use anything cheap.

Good coolant for the Corolla but I suspect your modern Camry will use the Toyota PInk SSL (Super Long life) coolant. Check your owners manual because our Aurion 2GR-FE uses this fluid and It wouldn't surprise me if the Camry is the same.

8 minutes ago, bob007 said:

Not knowing what oil they used is a worry but it had the same oil put in 6mths ago and seems to be ok.  My next oil change is in 6mths time and will be done by Toyota and I'll ask about synthetic oils, as we say oil is cheap an engine are not.

If they aren't providing fully synthetic, then you can always buy it and have them put it in when they perform the routine service. Semi synthetic is ok to use but you will get better long term results with fully synthetic oil.

 Super Cheap Auto, Repco and Autobarn are always having 30-40% off sales, and the rare 50% off, on various oil brands, so stock up while the getting is good like many of us do here. We have an established thread HERE   for such announcements. Ebay can yield good value sometimes too. Just gotta have a dig around.

Here's my little stash. Oil, Oil Filters, Fuel Filters and Air Filters :biggrin: I have to double up on parts because I also service my Dad's 50 series Aurion too.

 

 

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Tony's Toyota Parts Department has a nice ring to it LOL, as always you have me drooling over the mass stock

KAA

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12 hours ago, KAA said:

Tony's Toyota Parts Department has a nice ring to it LOL, as always you have me drooling over the mass stock

KAA

Hahaha yeah, I like that Robert.  Buy bulk wherever you can and save big $$. Just a side note. Those fuel filters are now nearly twice the price I paid by the same seller

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Thanks for the info Tony, you sure have plenty of supplies there.

I will get some Toyota Coolant but that's the only thing I'll touch because I've got another 4yrs of warranty left, so don't want to lose that.

Motorscam was once owned by the NRMA but no longer is, because when I rang the NRMA to complain I was told ring Motorscam we don't own it now...they couldn't give a stuff.  :angry:

I always thought the NRMA was for helping it's members but all it seems to do now is collect money...very sad.  :sad:

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22 minutes ago, bob007 said:

Thanks for the info Tony, you sure have plenty of supplies there.

I will get some Toyota Coolant but that's the only thing I'll touch because I've got another 4yrs of warranty left, so don't want to lose that.

Motorscam was once owned by the NRMA but no longer is, because when I rang the NRMA to complain I was told ring Motorscam we don't own it now...they couldn't give a stuff.  :angry:

I always thought the NRMA was for helping it's members but all it seems to do now is collect money...very sad.  :sad:

For complaints, looks like you will have to contact IAG who acquired Motorserve from NRMA. 

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/au/news/breaking-news/iag-acquires-nrmas-motorserve-business-192193.aspx 

As the saying goes, Once bitten twice shy or another one Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. 

I am a slow learner so I have been bitten twice a few times but have eventually wised up. 

 

Suggest that you send them an email including a lot of details so that they can investigate. Consider ending with an open ended statement suggesting that they remedy this situation of an unethical upselling of an unnecessary service. Await their response and if not satisfied then leave a review for their business on Google or Facebook etc. 

i also read a lot of posts on Quora.com so it is a common practice in the USA for these quick oil change places to upsell services and even blatantly lie to unsuspecting customers. Plenty of stories of parts needing to be replaced e.g. brake pads, air filters etc but the customer had only replaced them a few weeks ago. 

If you are not DIY, get the Toyota dealer or a decent local mechanic to do the additional 6mth oil and filter change. 

 

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4 hours ago, campbeam said:

For complaints, looks like you will have to contact IAG who acquired Motorserve from NRMA. 

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/au/news/breaking-news/iag-acquires-nrmas-motorserve-business-192193.aspx 

As the saying goes, Once bitten twice shy or another one Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. 

I am a slow learner so I have been bitten twice a few times but have eventually wised up. 

 

Suggest that you send them an email including a lot of details so that they can investigate. Consider ending with an open ended statement suggesting that they remedy this situation of an unethical upselling of an unnecessary service. Await their response and if not satisfied then leave a review for their business on Google or Facebook etc. 

i also read a lot of posts on Quora.com so it is a common practice in the USA for these quick oil change places to upsell services and even blatantly lie to unsuspecting customers. Plenty of stories of parts needing to be replaced e.g. brake pads, air filters etc but the customer had only replaced them a few weeks ago. 

If you are not DIY, get the Toyota dealer or a decent local mechanic to do the additional 6mth oil and filter change. 

 

Good advice campbeam,  Motorscam Seven Hills is where I took the car.  I might sent an email to IAG but I feel it's like complaining to say the Police about the Police and we all know what happens with that.  :laugh:

They also give you the "Complimentary car wash and vacuum".  I opened the door to go home and there's water on the front seat and in the back.  I've washed the car many times with no leaks, When I asked the Manager what the hell is this, he said we use a high pressure hose and sometimes water gets in.  :jester:

I asked why was this left like this ?  The Manager said nothing except, I'll get someone to clean it, and they didn't vacuum it either. 

When I rang the Manager the next day to complain about the engine oil flush ripoff, he tried to turn it back on me, saying I agreed to do it, which is true only because I was told by the woman at the desk it's part of the Toyota Log Book service which is a blatant lie. When caught out he said, it's part of our Toyota Log Book service.  :laugh:

Edited by bob007
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The old attack the customer routine is common practice, that tells you all you need to know, as Ash and Tony have suggested, as it is under warranty and there fixed price services cover all the main things go to Toyota. Many now are trying to grab back money lost while under lock down, they forget people will remember who does it and who didn't when all this calms down.

KAA

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So my next question is...Can I trust a Dealership ? 

 

 

Edited by bob007
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Michael the advantage of using a dealership for servicing is the warranty, I am sure most dealerships want to do the right thing for their customers, you bought their product and have the vehicle warranty and also they want you to continue to buy their product so out of all the options using Toyota to service your car while under warranty is your best option. However you can always do some research about good mechanic's in your area. I have used the same mechanic for over 15 years in my area, the main reason was I went to him with a huge issue he went out of his way to help me, even costing himself money to attempt to fix the problem and being a family operated business all his staff and family made us feel wanted and respected. You can always then go to them after your warranty is done with or if unhappy with Toyota you have a fall back but do your research thoroughly ask questions lots of them about the mechanic etc 

So my advise is yes give them the opportunity to look after you, let them know of your concerns and that you EXPECT top notch service right up front don't pull any punches and see how they treat you, you have rights and you have protection under their warranty, let us know how you get on mate

Keep Safe

KAA

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On 2/7/2021 at 4:39 PM, bob007 said:

So my next question is...Can I trust a Dealership ? 

 

 


If my car didn't have capped price services, I would prefer to take it to my own mechanic (or do it myself)

Dealerships have many technicians, who service lots of cars.

They never meet you, they don't know you, and as a result their care factor is quite low.

For example my local dealer has no idea where the full mark is on my dipstick (always over filled), perhaps it confuses them using the oil that I supply....

And that's when cold, let alone when the engine is warmed up (as per the owners manual)

Don't get me wrong, I allow some tolerance, by seriously circa 1 cm over is not within tolerance.... 

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7 hours ago, Novicebutnice said:


If my car didn't have capped price services, I would prefer to take it to my own mechanic (or do it myself)

Dealerships have many technicians, who service lots of cars.

They never meet you, they don't know you, and as a result their care factor is quite low.

For example my local dealer has no idea where the full mark is on my dipstick (always over filled), perhaps it confuses them using the oil that I supply....

And that's when cold, let alone when the engine is warmed up (as per the owners manual)

Don't get me wrong, I allow some tolerance, by seriously circa 1 cm over is not within tolerance.... 

I have to agree with you. We're not customers, but cash cows. Service with a smile but it's like the smiling assassin. If you're not careful they'll take your wallet too.

Pride and ownership are slowly being eroded to the point where the trainees aren't being supervised well enough. They turn up to work and just take the P!SS all day long and laugh about it with their mates later.

I don't trust any dealership full stop. I do all my service work myself.

Edited by Tony Prodigy
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49 minutes ago, Tony Prodigy said:

I don't trust any dealership full stop. I do all my service work myself.

I also have trust issues. It pays to have a useful set of hands and the brains to use them properly.

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11 hours ago, campbeam said:

I also have trust issues. It pays to have a useful set of hands and the brains to use them properly.

Haha, well said. Some people just find it hard to wield spanners and I get that. It's something that comes from within. I've been tinkering since I was a boy back in the late 70s when I had my dragster bicycle, my Dad's garage had plenty of tools available for me to choose from. It was exciting as a young kid to find the right tool and adjust or mend something. That's where my DIY mentality started. Dad was a very handy man too, still is God bless him. He was an accomplished carpenter and metal worker among many other things and he had everything in the home workshop. It opened my eyes at a very young age. Made me what I am today.

I imagine if I my Dad was an office person would I have had the desire for this, probably not. Our lives can be shaped by those around us as we look to them for guidance and some kind of inspiration. I'm grateful for the life experience and it has enabled me not only to save money, but enjoy what I consider a hobby too.

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Very similar background growing up with a garage full of tools and being encouraged to use them. Certainly encouraged to have a useful set of hands and to appreciate having tools.

Helps with the problem solving to turn thoughts into action. Learn to look for the root cause and not just to deal with the symptoms.  

As this post demonstrates, if you are not fully knowledgable about a particular service then you could be easy prey for the unscrupulous. Lesson learnt is to know what is exactly in the log book service. Certainly pays to read your owners manual and service schedule.

I have had my Aurion for 5 years and it is only recently that I have been looking at these manuals. 

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I rang IAG only to be told, we don't have a number for Motorserve and then was put through two departments and the last put me through to the NRMA who said...We don't own Motorserve, ring them.  :goof:

When I explained the runaround I've been given, he said send an email to Seven Hills Motorserve and ask them to give you the name and phone or email address of the area manager, which I did.  Well that was  4 days age and I'm still waiting, I'd better not hold my breath.  :angry:

I did get some Toyota coolant but it took 20 minutes, Went to parts desk but nobody was there.  I pressed the button but after 5mins or more no one came out, guy at service desk said I'll help you soon, another 5mins go by.  He's to busy to serve me, so I pressed the button again and after a few minutes some guy finally comes out, I wont be taking my car there for a service. :angry:

Then I found this...https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/toyota-dealers

So the question is, who can you trust these days, I suppose it's trial and error. :sad:

 

 

 

 

Edited by bob007
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