GeoffW

If you want a comprehensive answer to this problem, check out the topic "FUEL WARNING MESSAGE"

Rusty, Is there a replaceable filter in the bottom of the transfer pump? I never got to see it. But, the inside of my tank was spotless so I didn't suspect a filter issue. Remember, if you can get the pump to work, you can definitely hear it (with engine stopped). So, it would be wise to eliminate electrical problems first. Putting +12v into the hole in the relay socket that connects to the pump should run the pump if it has a good earth. If a good pump doesn't run with +12v, you should then check the earthing of the pump. I don't know where it earths, but the other power wire from the pump socket (on the tank) must go to earth. See circuit diagrams attached. Note: there are 2 images. One is visible in this posting, the other is a PDF file for which you will need a PDF reader to open. You might have to expand the image it to be able to read it. It's not suitable for reading on a phone. The +12v for the relay coil comes from the EFI relay. The 12v for the sub pump comes directly from the battery through a 20A fuse. The earth for the sub pump connects directly to ground somewhere. As I suspected earlier, the earth for the sub-pump relay coil is controlled by the ECU. Geoff ECS-1VD.pdfECS-1VD.pdfECS-1VD.pdfECS-1VD.pdf

Yes, I had that problem, too. A full sub-tank sometimes seems to impede the filling of the main tank. What I found was that if you keep putting fuel in until click off, and then do it again and again, you can eventually fill the main tank. That fact that it only happens sometimes would indicate to me that the angle of the vehicle might have something to do with it. If you were to run the vehicle into the bowser from the opposite direction, it might solve that problem. Note, when testing the +12V or ground of various fuse box connectors be wary of high impedance modern multimeters. I found that a small 12v test light (incandescent, not LED) gave better results. Geoff

Gary My first problem occurred on a trip to WA. I ran out of fuel just out of Port Augusta. Not then knowing what the problem was, I again ran out of fuel just out of Ceduna. It was there that I researched the problem. I continued on to WA thereafter just using the main tank of 90 litres and refilling when down to 1/4 full. I had no problems getting around WA for the next 2 months towing a 3.5 tonne van. Plenty of fuel spots. Geoff

Tony, I have no knowledge of Prados, but from your photo, it looks like a similar setup to the LC 200. I recollect that the electrical connector is removed by pressing the tab at the top-side of the connector (as shown in photo) towards the body of the connector and lifting it out. I'm pretty sure I did it with only my fingers. In the LC200, there was no fuel filter in this assembly. There could have been a strainer in the bottom of the assembly. I suspect it is the lift pump which sucks fuel from the tank to the engine which has failed in your case. On the LC200 that pump is on the engine somewhere. I never got to it. Kind regards Geoff

Yes, it's a ***** of a job.

Photo below showing remotely mounted relay for sub pump and switch to connect relay coil to earth when required. The earth connection for the switch was found using a test light in an empty relay socket just near where the relay is now mounted. You can trace the solid black wire. Btw, I soldered all the crimp connectors. I don't have a lot of faith in crimp connectors. Geoff

No, I didn't see a fuel filter, but the inside of the tank was spotless. The pump wasn't running - blocked filter or not. Geoff

I had better finish off my saga because it definitely didn't end with the installation of the new (2nd hand) pump. I tested the new pump before installation and it worked fine. I installed the pump and reinstalled the tank. Knowing that the sub tank was full and the main tank was near empty, I expected the turning on of the ignition would have got the pump pumping. It didn't. I removed the relay that operates the sub-tank pump and it tested ok. I eventually worked out that there was no earth connection to the relay coil. There was +12V to socket for the other side of the relay coil and +12V at the terminal socket which connects to the pump when the relay closes. I connected a temporary earth to the earth side of the coil (using a fine piece of telephone cable wire which can be slipped into the socket before the relay is reinstalled) and the pump ran. I had previously identified this problem but concluded that the computer must control both the + side and the earth side of the relay coil, although I couldn't see why it would do this. My problem was that the the pump problem didn't always occur. If the gauge got to below a quarter and the fuel light didn't begin flashing, I could assume that the sub tank was near empty. But, sometimes the fuel light would commence flashing once the gauge got to 1/4 full and I knew that I had about 40km to go before empty. So, the new pump was behaving like the old pump and the problem must not be the pump. Fed up, I removed the relay, made up 4 short (4") leads with a spade on one end and a spade socket on the other end and connected the relay remotely. This then allowed me to connect another wire to the earth lead for the relay and take it to earth via a waterproof switch. If and when the fuel light starts flashing again, I will stop and switch on the switch to pump the contents of the sub-tank into the main tank. On reflection, this has probably been my problem all along and there was probably nothing wrong with the original pump (I convinced myself after reading about all the others who had had this problem that the electrical connection in the main tank had become high resistance and melted the fitting). I have not heard of anyone else who has diagnosed this to be the problem. I will post a photo of my fix later.

I have a hoist so height wasn't an issue. But, if you run the rear wheels up onto ramps, you shouldn't have a problem. Remember, it is a 2-man job - one to support the tank and the other to connect the various pipes. Take a few photos of the pipe layouts before you remove them.

Definitely can't get the pump out through the hole in the floor. The top of the pump has a larger diameter than the hole. 2nd pump has arrived from the wrecker. I will be removing the tank and installing it today.

Kanga, You wouldn't believe it, I found a pump at a Victorian wrecker. He posted it to me but to the wrong address. It was 10 days before I found this out. I went to the wrong address and they said the didn't see it. Austpost is adamant it was delivered. The wrecker fortunately has another one. So, I haven't taken the old one out yet.

Yes, with 12v applied to the pump you can definitely hear it whirring if it is working. Kind regards Geoff

Having just discovered this group and having made a significant reply to a Land Cruiser question from a member, I'm wondering why there is no specific discussion forum for Land Cruisers, given their popularity. This is now particularly relevant given the unavailability of the missing (from the web) LCOOL forum (Land Cruiser Owners On Line). This was a great forum with a mountain of very valuable information regarding Land Cruisers, but it has disappeared. Does anyone know of other sites that cater for LC owners? I know of the Facebook group Landcruiser Owners Group Australia but find it useless and too hard to navigate. I am not a Facebook fan! Kind regards Geoff

Steve, I have purchased a second hand pump assembly from a wrecker (with 3 months warranty) for $250. I hope it doesn't have the terminal showing signs of heat. It should arrive next week. I think I will be able to get the pump out through the inspection hole. I will keep you posted. Kind regards Geoff

Scott, See this site. I put a reply on it a few days ago re your type of problem.

This conversation is quite old but doesn't seem to have a complete explanation. It was extensively dealt with on the LCOOL.org forum (Land Cruiser Owners On Line) but that website has now been unavailable for more than a year. What a shame as it was a great website for all info relating to Land Cruisers. Anyway, I am very familiar with this problem and I will now give a full explanation. Mine is a 2010 LC200 diesel. I'm not sure if the petrol models have the same problem. The problem is first noticed when the fuel warning light comes on at 1/4 tank and is blinking. The normal fuel warning light comes on at about 1/8 tank and does not blink. What the blinking light means is that the fuel level in the main tank is about 10 litres and the fuel in the sub tank is greater than about 10 litres. When the main tank gets down to 10 litres, the sub tank should be empty. This indicates a problem with the sub tank pump. Be aware that the sub tank pump is located in the main tank. It draws fuel from the sub tank when the computer turns it on. It is a venturi pump - it pumps fuel in the main tank through a venturi which, in turn, draws fuel from the sub tank. I'm not sure how the computer manages the pump, but I imagine it is something like this: when the main tank fuel level has dropped by a certain amount, say, 20 litres, it switches on the pump and re-fills the main tank from the sub tank. This probably continues until the sub tank is empty. I'm not sure but this detail doesn't matter. When the warning light blinks, it means that the sub tank is not empty but the main tank is nearing empty, so there must be a fault. The cause is usually the electrical connector in the top of the fuel pump assembly that fits into the top of the main tank. Either the power or earth wire to the pump will be open circuit. In the process, it experiences a high resistance which generates heat and melts the connector that goes to the pump. I'm not sure now whether it was the connector on the pump lead or the underside of the connector in the lid of the assembly, but if you look closely (a magnifier will help) you might see the melted plastic. This was the problem I had. There was nothing wrong with the pump, just the connector. I followed the instructions on LCOOL and cut the wires to the pump and routed 2 new wires through 2 holes drilled in the lid of the assembly. These new wires were a tight fit in the holes I drilled and I thought there should not be any leakage there. I also applied a fuel-proof sealer on each side of the hole in the lid. On reflection, I should have obtained some neoprene grommets to fit the holes. On the other end of the new wires, I soldered M&F push connectors so that the tank could be removed in future, if necessary, without the need to cut the wires. I covered the connectors with heat-shrink tube. The sub pump started working properly again. However, some months later I discovered that if the fuel tanks were full and the vehicle was parked on just a slight hill, fuel would leak onto the road. I have put up with that for a couple of years and made sure I didn't fill the tanks to full. To do this repair I removed the tank from the vehicle. Before you can do that, you need to open the inspection hole in the floor under the RH centre row passenger seat to disconnect the wires from the pump assembly. To get to the inspection hole, you need to remove the seat and fold the carpet and underlay back. I cut a hole on the carpet and underlay so that next time I would not have to remove the seat. The cover on the inspection hole is held in place with butyl mastic. When I replaced it I used silicone. That was a mistake as I almost had to destroy the inspection cover to get it off. Removing the seat and the tank is a 2 man job - unless you are Hercules. A question I don't know the answer to is whether the fuel pump assembly can be removed through the inspection hole. The ring which screws on to hold the assembly in place is quite tight and a special tool would be necessary to unscrew the ring. I intend to make such a tool. Previously, with the tank out, I made a tool to remove the ring, but that tool is too bulky to allow the ring to be removed through the inspection hole. If anyone has knowledge about whether the pump assembly can be removed through the inspection hole, I would be grateful to hear it (0418 259 741). I am about to sell my Land Cruiser (privately) so I have decided the replace the pump assembly. The retail price from a Toyota dealer is in excess of $2,000. I can source one from China via AliExpress for $328 AUD. I will also check out some wrecking yards first. I hope this helps someone. Kind regards Geoff