johnydep

A friendly cruise would be great, maybe even a combined thread

Mmmm <_< Haven't heard of that one on either the Territory or the Falcon BA - BF (use the same hinges). Hope it's not about to be a common fault, I'll ask the lads at http://www.fordforums.com.au OK, this is what I found out - http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11212025

Mmmm <_< Haven't heard of that one on either the Territory or the Falcon BA - BF (use the same hinges). Hope it's not about to be a common fault, I'll ask the lads at http://www.fordforums.com.au

The Australian motoring press has had a long standing love affair with the Territory and heaven forbid anyone that says a bad word about it. On the other hand, say a bad thing about the Falcon and you'll find them cheering for you from the rooftops and shouting "Go the Commodore". I mean, how can anyone take the Aussie motoring journalists seriously when they try and convince us that the VE Commodore is a better car than a 5 series Beemer? Personally, I find that the territory is a bit too soft and squishy for my liking, perfect for most of the lard ****d people that buy them I suppose. The Kluger could certainly have some improvements made - I'd like to see the front end tightened up a little and have some of the lack of feel through the wheel sorted out - but give me the Kluger suspension and body roll any day over the Ford. I for one am not in the slightest bit interested in buying a car based on reviews. The only way to buy a car is to find one or two that tick all the boxes, drive them, speak to other owners, then buy the one you like the most. <_< I hate to break your ill-conceived perception. I own a Territory, purchased at the age of 37 and I am very fit & muscular. The Kluger has excellent suspension for what it was designed for; off-road work & city driving. Remember that the Territory is has been round for a few years now. The vehicle was designed with the idea that most SUVs do not leave the bitumen, so one of the main design factors was to build a SUV that handled & rode as closely to a sedan as possible; low centre of gravity, four wheel independent suspension, medium profile tyres, relocated steering rack. It was one of the first and so captured the eyes and hearts of a lot of people. Wheels magazine help prove some of the Territory benefit with their WHEELS ACTIVE SAFETY PROGRAM back in 2005 http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=29525 I'm sure that the new Kluger has similar dynamics to the Territory, however it does have a few things against it; higher centre of gravity, weight distribution and on the Grand - low profile tyres. Enjoy your Kluger, Toyota produce nice vehicles.

I feel that we are going around in circles, this shal be my last post on the subject! Many times you have inadvertently highlighted the inadequacy of Toyota's response to the Wheels Magazine claims! Toyota could not have gathered any information from the ECU that could possibly clear the company of any responsibility to a safety issue, and pass the blame onto a second party. That is why Toyota are not releasing any information of what was gathered from the memory of the ECU. I don't care if it's Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Ford or whoever if a car magazine highlights a fault such as Wheels has, the vehicle manufacturer should release any and all information ASAP to the buying public. To hold back certain material and to issue unsubstantiated information, is highly suspect. This is not the first time a manufacturer has had something to hide. The big three in the US had major court cases over safety issues hidden then brought to light by fatalities, Mitsubishi hid faulty mechanical parts on thier vehicles for 10 years. If enough consumers turn a blind eye, manufacturers will take the gamble and stay silent. It's happened before, re Mitsubishi. Anyone that owns a Kluger should be making a request to Toyota for assurances that the VSC wll operate in all conditions and instantaneously, get it in writing. If they do that, with reasonable wording, all is good. When I purchased my vehicle, safety was the first issue; the stability control and air bags helped me make a decision to purchase the safest vehicle that I could afford to ensure the safety of my family. I would not want that compromised. EDIT: The ECU with 1Mb of flash memory is 6 years old now, new ECU's have greater memory. Also, if you read the article it states that the ECU's "offer memory expansion, which allows designers to add external discrete memory capacity." And just because you have a scan tool does not mean you can access all the info. To gather all the data available from OBDII vehicles requires a scan tool with all the vehicle manfacturers code. There is also some interesting development in the heavy vehicle industry; http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/facts-research/re...ec05/appn-b.htm

It was a joke. I don't think there is any needle ticking inside the ECU. Flash memory is expensive. No I doubt even the porsches have that sort of detail data. I have the scan tool in my computer for my RX-8, there is minimal data collected by the ECU in modern Japanese sports car. I wonder how much will be recorded in a family SUV Vehicle manufacturers have been using Flash Memory for several years. The more advanced systems record & store data, including code excecution & sensor input. A quick Google and I found an old Mitsi Electrical ECU that has Flash memory, etc. Mitsubishi Electric’s New 32-Bit Automotive MCU Offers Industry’s Largest Flash Memory Capacity October 2, 2002

I doubt even the most advance ECU in the world will have all the data available. I know as a fact in my Mazda RX-8 there is only recorded any Trouble Codes, any over speeding, and over reving of engines. I doubt there will be much about the speed at the time if it is 100kmh, steering angle or even if traction control is activated (at the time). They only would know if it is working because there is no code recorded in the car saying it is not. If there is such info in the car, there must a hard disc in the ECU If you are correct then I can only assume that Toyota are, at best, playing with words and at worst, telling untruths - Peter Webester TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION AUSTRALIA LIMITED "A download of the onboard ECU of the vehicle involved in the accident indicates a set of circumstances substantially different to those described by Wheels." Did Wheels Mag mention fault codes or activated fault light? The Toyota statement indicates that Toyota Tech extracted information form the ECU and found a story different to the Wheels explanation; how could they come to this conclusion? The plot thickens, Toyota must release the information. As for hard drives, what about flash memory? Small, compact and huge memory capabilities.

They have no data on the skid and the crash is less than useful to Toyota.......... According to Toyota they do have data! Peter Webester TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION AUSTRALIA LIMITED "A download of the onboard ECU of the vehicle involved in the accident indicates a set of circumstances substantially different to those described by Wheels." I'm sure Toyota Japan are disecting the info right now. We may get some answers soon, all of it if owners start emailing Toyota for answers.

True; "There is no guarantee in life." There is no guarantee that a dirt/gravel track will have even grip across the whole track. This is why VSC was invented, to help improve the drivers chances when safe conditions can not be guaranteed. The ESP should have detected the test vehicles slide, sensors should have sent information to the ECU and the ECU should have applied individual brakes, which is easily noticed by the driver, in an attempt to bring the vehicle back under control. There is no guarantee that the VSC will stop a crash, but there should be an attempt). Something went wrong, the fault can only lie with either the driver or the Kluger Vehicle Stability Control; Wheels have given us thier side of the story, now Toyota must release the information gathered from the ECU and explain thier side of the story. Until that happens this incident should be treated as a safety issue for all current model Kluger's.

Hi, I'm an ex-Toyota owner and have a lot of respect for the company, but I'm here to comment on the Kluger rollover with concern for safety and to fight propaganda. There really is no misunderstanding of what happened. Vehicle Dynamic Control is designed to assist the driver in the unfortunate situation of losing control, ie over steer, under steer, slide. The Wheels driver forced the vehicle into a slide to test the effectiveness of the VDC, it did not operate as the driver was accustomed to from other vehicle systems. The roleover is just a distraction, the real worry is that the VDC did not activate in a reasonble time frame. I have been a driver of a vehicle that went into a slide and the VDC has assisted me bring the vehicle back into line, it was so fast it took me a few moments to work out what had happened. Please don't look at this as an attack on the Kluger, try and understand the safety ramifications. This could happen to any vehicle manufacturer, it must be investigated thoroughly in the name of safety and consumerism. http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5137591