Halogen lights

[Kruzenvax]

Apologies for asking so many dumb questions in such a short period of time, but I'm 2-3 days away from getting the car so I'm bit nervous and hangry for the info.

The question is: Grande spec includes "halogen headlights". Is that the same as "xenon lights" avaliable (sometimes) on other cars? If not, which ones are better?

Thanks

[Keisari]

No dumb questions here ;) information is what it's all about.

I'm no expert, but I believe xenon is the best, followed by halogen and then what is defined as 'standard' in my manual. I don't know what the difference is between halogen and xenon as I've never experienced the latter. Technically there shouldn't be any, as brightness, colour and intensity are mandated. I just upgraded my stock 3300k halogens to 4300k white halogens and they do look nicer and provide more contrast, effectively what xenons are supposed to do I believe.

[bozurolla]

Apologies for asking so many dumb questions in such a short period of time, but I'm 2-3 days away from getting the car so I'm bit nervous and hangry for the info.

The question is: Grande spec includes "halogen headlights". Is that the same as "xenon lights" avaliable (sometimes) on other cars? If not, which ones are better?

Thanks

Halogen & Xenon are two differents gases or discharges,The Halogen are of the olde as the Xenons are the latest,The Xenons apparently cooler during burn than the Halogen,& the Xenons express the blue tinge everybody likes better than the halogens,Working for Coventrys for ten years ive been exposed to many brands (Philips ,Narva, Hella)& technologies (convglobes to the HID units),Someone might prove me wrong,but this is all the perspective of a salesperson & numerous product training nights.

[Kruzenvax]

Thanks for that. The reason I'm asking is that the dealer offered to upgrade the car (for a couple of $$$) to Xenon (in response to my dumb question "can I get one of these cool bright lights?"). $$$ are no killing me there. In your opinion is this a worthwhile upgrade?

[Taka]

BEWARE!

I don't think your dealer knows his stuff or being completely honest with you.

Xenon headlights are so different from halogens. as previously pointed out, they are different in discharging properties.

They are completely different in casing as well. So much so that the xenon conversion in headlights are not 100% perfect. They are simply a connector to the H4 plug that we use in the halogen lights, puttign the electricity to a ballast and discharge in the xenon bulb.

There is no official options in USA, Australia or NZ regarding that. So it is either the modification I stated above, or they just con you with a whiter halogen lights!

Yes the xenon should be whiter and brighter but neither of the above (xenon conversion or whiter halogen bulbs) will guarantee you to have a brighter headlights.

Also all new cars sold with xenon has to have a washer in the highlights in part of the australian design rules, so dealer doing that as a MODIFICATION, not OPTION. and not being an option,,, you will not get your money back when you sell your car.

Just my 2cent.

ALSO EDIT: Xenon conversion is over $500, not couple of hundreds. The cheap xenon is worse than the stock lights I am sure. And I can get the top of range halogen light bulb like Polarg or PIAA for AUD$100 overseas.

Edited January 23, 2008 by takahashi

[Kruzenvax]

Well, thanks for that.

The quote was over $500 - you're right. I'm not sure I understand the "H4 plug" info, etc - but based on the info I think I'll go with original halogens of Kluger. If I understand you correctly - there's no "safe" way of having xenons, especially if Kluger doesn't have washers or does it?

iPod is a different story - if it won't void the warranty I'm seriously considering of going that way - unless (and I'd appreciate the feedback) I can;t have it safely 100%

Many thanks

BEWARE!

I don't think your dealer knows his stuff or being completely honest with you.

Xenon headlights are so different from halogens. as previously pointed out, they are different in discharging properties.

They are completely different in casing as well. So much so that the xenon conversion in headlights are not 100% perfect. They are simply a connector to the H4 plug that we use in the halogen lights, puttign the electricity to a ballast and discharge in the xenon bulb.

There is no official options in USA, Australia or NZ regarding that. So it is either the modification I stated above, or they just con you with a whiter halogen lights!

Yes the xenon should be whiter and brighter but neither of the above (xenon conversion or whiter halogen bulbs) will guarantee you to have a brighter headlights.

Also all new cars sold with xenon has to have a washer in the highlights in part of the australian design rules, so dealer doing that as a MODIFICATION, not OPTION. and not being an option,,, you will not get your money back when you sell your car.

Just my 2cent.

ALSO EDIT: Xenon conversion is over $500, not couple of hundreds. The cheap xenon is worse than the stock lights I am sure. And I can get the top of range halogen light bulb like Polarg or PIAA for AUD$100 overseas.

[Taka]

Xenon should be safe, the washer is a total bull**** in my opinion because the ADR (australian design rule) require all new cars to have it. Not sure about the aftermarket change being legal or not. But the VicRoad roadworthy stated it has to be white or yellow, not blue. So anything over 5000K in rating is too white/blue in my book.

Ipod should be safe, unless it create a short circuit and kill your Sat Nav :dunno:

[PC XT]

HID's would look like this 5000k for Low/High beams and 6000k for the small spots. Game over!

Edited February 3, 2008 by PC XT

[klugerowner]

Hi

I think I can help with explaining the headlight xenon - halogen thing

Halogen: current standard headlight in most cars, they come in different wattages and brightnesses, and there are good ones and average ones. Prices vary according to brand and quality. The more expensive ones sometimes last longer and have better light output. They have a white colour which a lot of people refer to as yellow white, because when compared to the other type of light they look more yellow white. They are adequate and legal in NSW. But in city areas, the standard wattage is 55watts low beam and 65 watts high beam. Anything above that is considered a modification by the police and requires documentation, a reason for the modification and that being noted on your insurance paperwork. You are unlikely to get pulled over for this, but if a police or RTA inspector does go over your car in detail, this could cost you in fines if you don't have the proper documents. These halogen globes work like your globes in your house, they have electricity going through a wire in the globe that heats up and glows. There is gas inside the globe too (halogen gas) that makes the bulb better and brighter. Narva Plus globes have been very good for me and shown up a lot more of the road.

You are allowed to use higher wattages in country or town areas of NSW. You can get many different types. For example normal city ones are 55w/65w (low and high beam) Country ones can range from 55w/75w to 90w/130w or even more. Again beware of overloading and over heating your electrical wiring and check the specifications of the plastic or glass lens cover on your headlight. You may, melt, discolour or heat damage your lens if the globe gets too hot on a long night drive. You may get away with these in the city in NSW as long as you are not pulled over for a defect check by the RTA or police, if you do you will need a good excuse or paperwork to state why you have them installed.

Xenon: A newer technology in cars, (It has been around in industrial and entertainment lighting for many years). It is usually brighter and more intense than halogen. It works by having raw electricity shoot between two metal poles inside the globe, which has a gas in there (Xenon) as well. So the bright bluish coloured white light is coming from the electric discharge inside the globe. Because of the nature of these globes, they usually require a different kind of reflector set up (this is the casing that the globe sits in) You will see these lights in current model, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and similar cars, as well as modified street racer type cars. They usually have a projector lens and reflector assembly for the globe to sit in. This means that they have a piece of glass in front of the globe inside the head light surround that focuses the light beam like a lens on a torch or camera. These are legal in cars that are approved to use them sold from the dealership. They have to be angled and installed correctly as they are so intense that if they point directly at other drivers eyes, it is dangerous for the other drivers at night, as their eyes do not re adjust in time after looking at the Xenon head light and they are blinded for a short period of time. (usually seconds)

They do draw more current (amps) than halogen lights usually, and will quite often require heavier electrical wiring than what is in your car from the factory. So if you use the standard wiring and put a modified kit in that has very powerful Xenon lights you may cause the wiring to melt or catch fire at some point.

Important note: Proper Xenon lamps will not have low and high beam. They have one setting only. You cannot flash them like high beam as they have a short warm up time from when you turn them on, so I guess visually a bit like when you turn on those new energy saving compact fluorescent globes in your house, they take awhile to get really bright. So you would have to have one set of Xenon lights for head lights and a second set of Halogens for high beam, or another Xenon system with some sort of smart start system to have them ready to flash on if needed.

They are not legal to put into cars that were not designed for them and as such in NSW for a Kluger require a modification certificate and you need to note it on your insurance paperwork.

So the others in this forum are right, beware of cheap kits, or over confident sales people who may sell you something that is not the real thing or not completely legal. There are different types and wattages of Xenons, and yes, some of the lower wattages are not as bright as the best Halogens. And sometimes you simply get a blue coloured light in your existing head light that just doesn't look right. But if you get the proper full kit and do the paper work (Suggest maybe looking at a modified Lexus RX330 or 350 Xenon headlight or similar as the Kluger and RX330-350 are built on the same platform and share lots of parts.) then you will have that expnsive blue white look to your headlights and they will give you a light more like daylight. It looks pretty cool.

Make sure they do not look too blue. I have been pulled over and warned before by a policeman in the City in Sydney that my lights were too blue and there fore could be mistaken for impersonating a police vehicle. A stretch I know, but the officers seemed pretty adamant about wanting to give me a fine. I was given 24 hours to have them changed back. (This was in a hatchback car not the Kluger)

Also make sure you are not being sold the regular halogen type globes with a blue gel coat on them, (looks like a regular headlight globe with clear blue paint on them) they are marketed as Xenon and may indeed have some Xenon gas in them but are not discharge lamps. They do not have the raw electric high intensity light output. They generally have less light output than your standard globes but have a blue looking colour, they never look quite right in your headlight and are not as useful. But they are more expensive than halogens too!

Hope this helps. I am all for having Xenon discharge lamps in the Kluger, but I would prefer to have proper ones that will last and not get me into trouble. Wish they would offer it as an option, after they have them in the Lexus models.

HID's would look like this 5000k for Low/High beams and 6000k for the small spots. Game over!

[klugerowner]

HI Also found some other info that might be useful:

http://www.lighting.philips.com.au/au/en/P...amp;div_id=cat2

this is a link to the philips Australia Auto Lighting webpage, they have a selection of different types of halogen lamps that are now much brighter and closer to that Xenon Discharge look but still street legal for you Kluger.

Also see attached photo to see the difference in the type and colour of light. (Between a standard Halogen globe, not the new full on bright ones, and the HID Xenon discharge lamps)

Hope this is helpful.

[klugerowner]

Ok hi everyone :)

I have done a lot of reading and the best way to explain the current laws on HID lamps in a car like a Kluger is at the bottom of the page on this website link:

http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...howtopic=539498

You can go and have a look at eh Australian Design Rules (for Automotive vehicles) ADR, and see that in short, No you cannot fit HID lamps to any halogen lamp car in the regular low beam lights and housings.

You may at considerable cost and time, look into retro fitting a whole new lighting assembly, reflectors, lenses, sockets, housing, globes and then getting it tested and certified by a registered engineer and then it may be legal in some states under certain conditions. This still may not be covered by your insurance and if you have an accident, you may no longer be covered if it is found you lied to or forgot to notify your insurance company about some part of your car. (even if that part was not involved in the accident, as you have voided your policy by having it installed and not telling them.)

Australia seems to have quite a few more guidelines and rules about cars than a lot of other countries.

So the best way to get HID lamps, is to buy a car that already has them. If you do long distance night driving or off road driving, look at getting HID driving/fog lamps fitted to your car instead. Get them professionally installed and get it put on to your insurance and car rego details.

I am sure in time the ADR guidelines will be updated to coincide with modern technology, (I am sure power windows were a problem once), It is just a long process involving technicians, engineers, politicians, car makers, car sellers, auto industry bodies and lobby groups.. Of course if you live on a farm in the outback or high up in the mountains.. you could install strobe lights in green taken off an alien spaceship and no one would really stop you.. lol...

Hope all of this has helped, I am disappointed that there is no legal way for me to adapt new wonderful technology to my brand new car in Australia.. I will add it to effective solar power, water vaporators that suck moisture/humidity out of the air to make water, fibre optic channeled sunlight in your house during daytime instead of lights, long lasting light weight batteries, flying cars, LED household globes (with the really bright LEDs used in video walls) instead of horrible compact fluorescents and internet enabled on demand TV and movies.

So it is high quality halogen (philips crystal ultra) lamps for the Kluger for now.