QUICKSILVER

Hi There

A buddy and I decided to design/create or own CAI for the RunX RSi(Sportivo) as the cost to import a TRD/AEM CAi is just damn expensive ($??? X 6 = about R3000+).

We had a system which gave us an incredible increase from 1000rpm to 6000rpm after that the ride is dead, zero lift. Well not really zero lift the car goes into lift but 1 can feel a big power drop.

We have played around and I currently have a TRD CAI type setup in my ride, nice tone and a improvement in power in the mid rev range.

But we have 1 problem, when racing you only feel this power in 1st gear after that one keeps the revs in the 6000rpm+ range.

What I am looking for is an increase in power from 4500rpm onwards.

Has anyone played around with CAI`s?

Is this possible?

How?

Please let me know, Thanks.

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There is a post somewhere here on CAI B)

http://www.trdsales.com

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Thanks.

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OMG Not another South African :D

The problem being referred to is idle fluctuating or "hunting" between say 350 and 900 rpm on random occassions with some 1zz's.

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Does this only happen when the aircon is on?

The following comment is specific to the 2ZZGE, but will apply the 1ZZ as well, imho.

The ECU has an integrated idle up function. Via sensors, this function is activated and sends and receives signals from the idle control valve. Now, your idle control valve also controls your idle speed during warm up cycles after a cold start.

The aircon compressor fitted to the RunX RSi is a very small unit, which saps a small amount of horsepower, when activated. But saying that, it runs a hefty 12 bar worth of pressure. When the compressor activates, it will put some strain on the engine and rpm would decrease, at idle, from +- 800 rpm to around 500 rpm. The idle up function will communicate with the control valve to up rpm, typically to around 1200 rpm. However, in extreme conditions, like a hot day in traffic where you’re pottering around at walking speed, the activation and deactivation of the compressor, together with the activities of the control valve can result in the symptom described. This is mainly attributable to the fact that there are a variety of factors that could all be applicable at that point in time. Consider that the activation and deactivation of the aircon compressor is dependent on the gas temperature, the gas pressure as well as evaporation radiator activities. This will result in continuous activation and deactivation of the compressor as well as continuous activity from the idle up function to try and compensate for this. The result is “idle hunting”.

That’s the long of it. The short of it….its normal and there is no need to be concerned.

Here is the link with some background to the South African owner's concerns.

http://www.tolken.co.za/twincamforum/viewt...?t=5320&start=0

Hope this helps

Hi Bruster,

I wonder if this has anything to do with the ECU recall we all had done on the pre-face lift s'tivo.

As after the ECU recall was done it exaclty matches the description mentioned in the article and i believe the ECU recall was done on the new s'tivo's from factory so owners wouldnt really have to do / know anything about it.

cheers

Bill

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In addition to the revised ECU and air cleaner caps (as part of the recall process), the new RunX RSi's also include a slightly revised exhaust system.

I dont think it has anything to do with South African manufacturing, more to do with the lack of sporting pedegree by Toyota Australia. I am sometimes still surprised that we get the 2zzge engines over here, as in the past none of the high performance engines came over here, i mean the pre-1999 celicas all had camry engines here

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I think its got more to do with Toyota Motor Corporation's aspirations. I had an exten sive discussion with a senior manager at Toyota South Africa. Fact is, they're not in the business of making cars, but in the business of nmaking money. So whilst you and I and a host of other people thing that we need more performance orientated vehicles from TMC / TSA / TMCA, the fact is that the majority of Toyota buyers are quite content with what they've got.

In fact, I'm certain that TMC view the M3 as an automotive stuff up - thats right :o

They view the car as madly impractical, excessively noisy, over wheeled and very thirsty. Probably 5 percent of owners will explore the true capabilities of the car and the other 95 percent won't.

Don't get mne wrong, I love the M3 - I think that its one of the best sport saloon's available, but from a Toyota point of view, they believe that its a waste of money.

good old "Slow Africa" the chances are slim to none that it will happen !!  :(

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You should be shot for that comment

What happened to being "Proudly South African"?

Manufacturer product lines are often dictated by demand and by a global supply chain management model. TSA are dictated by their Japanese counterparts. They are told what to produce and who to supply. The fact that South Africa or Audtralia or Greenland, for that matter, does not get a product, has got more to do with the bigger picture than your and my personal expectations.

Hi, from sunny South Africa :D

I've seen a few posts about a "clutch adjustment" to resolve the grating gears / notch gear changes.

Please provide specific details regarding this field fix. Is it an official fix by TMCA and does anyone have a copy of the technical bulletin issued to dealers?

Toyota South Africa have no idea of this fix and suspect that it may have come straight from Japan.

Please help B)

It won't fit in South African and Australian spoecced vehicles, because of the choice of sterring assistance used (in the UK, they use electromechanical power steerings)

Quicksilver

I undertsand that the noise when accelerating is apparently normal however this noise has increased significantly since the replacement of the gear selector cable. The noise is heard when all windows are up and you can hear a definite sizzle or rattle noise in teh engine. It never use to be this loud. You can also hear it at high revs which is a higher pitch sizzling noise. Do you think this is the thrust bearing? Because this is what Toyota will replace for me on Thursday. Could it be something else? I just wish they can get it right this time as everything they do never seems to fix anything. Even the new gear selector cable did not make the buzzing noise in the CD dash go away. Hope I can get everything fixed this time.

I think I have got the worst Stivo ever made.

As you can appreciate, its difficult to diagnose a problem on the net

However, to check if it is the thrust bearing, put the car in neutral and let it idle whislt your care is at a standstill. Then put your clutch in. If a noise eminates, it will be your thrust bearing. I'm noit too sure, but this diagnosis makes sense to me based on my understanding on how the thrust bearing works.

Whats up all?

OK. There's 2 different issues that I can establish that concerns you...and both are not symptomatic problems.

Issue 1

When decelerating under engine compression or accererelating , particularly in lower gears under lower rpm conditions, you hear a growl / rattle coming from the transmission area entering the cabin???? All that you are hearing is transaxle activity and Toyota gearboxes are, unfortunately, notorius for this. A fieldfix has been developed for this on all Corolla models, but does not eliminate the problem completely. The transaxle cable is fitted with a damper to reduce the intrusion of this noise into the cabin. The growl, as mentioned before, is also evident under acceleration under low rpm conditions. The growl should become less noticeable as you go higher up the rev range as well as moving up to a higher gear. Its purely an NVH issue and should not concern you.

Issue 2

When the engine is idling under certain conditions, a rattling / ticking noise may make its way into the cabin. This noise is amplified, under certain conditions, when the aircon unit is turned on.

If you put in / engage your clutch, the noise goes away. If you experience this symptom, your car suffers from gear clatter. There is no cure for this and does not signify a malfunction. Many will tell you that it possibly would be a release or thrust bearing problem. This is not the case.

The increased noise levels attributable to gearbox activity is attributable to the fact that the casings are thinner to reduce weight. The problem is amplified as the underbody sealing and noise supression is poor. Hope this helps.

on my recall letter it states this is to be replaced.

Is this a part of the STOCK air box? which wont be there due to CAI.?

bloke @ penrith told me everything needs to be by the book and suggested i should remove the cai.

also said he has been instructed to take note of modifications..

my guess is they are very reluctant to do the recall so anyone with a possible warranty voiding modification will be noted and possibly further action taken.

Its the top part of the air box, and must be changed as it contains a less restrictive air port.

give it till over 500K's then you will feel a difference. Im 800+ after last week and it certainly feels better after the 500K 'learning curve'

See, I told you so :P

I got the recall done about two weeks ago and as i was going through this forum stating about a sticker on the driver side door i couldn't find it, they just give me a sheet of paper and stated what was done, ADR recall and gear cable replace.

I still have the same gear knob, can still hear buzzing sound when rev between 3 to 4krpm, the airbox still looks the same, i open the airbox and unable to find whats the difference, unable to feel any improvement when driving, Could it be that my Toy dealer never done the recall properly or even never did it.

How can i check because i am pretty sure if i call them, they will deny it.

Cheers

I don't think we were supposed to feel a big difference as mentioned in the recall info provided by TMCA. I did get a silver sticker on the driver's side, just ask the dealer for it. I am not sure about the difference in the aircap but someone did mention there is a change in the inside of the cap where there is a white piece of plastic. Not sure what purpose it serves but that could be what they changed or maybe something closer to the throttle body. I might drive the car back tomorrow and ask the mechanics to provide me with more details. The gear selctor cable i have at the moment is no larger than before. There are differences but not a noticible incrrease in size.

Zee

Of course you're suppose to feel the difference. Theres around a 4 - 7kW gain at 7800 rpm and torque increases by up to 10Nm between 3000 and 6000 rpm, depending on where you are under full throttle.

As I mentioned before, give your ECU between 200 and 500km to "learn" the parameters as these will be set during each warm up cycle. Therefore, it seemed to help us in SA to drill the car for a bit after the oil temperature and gearbox warmed up nicely. You'll see that it gets stronger with more kms.

Also, on the Aircleaner cap, the inside contains a white piece of plastic. Previously, this had a "step down with a mesh type cover which was very restrictive. The newer cap looks exactly like the old one on the outside. However, the intake nozzle is shorter and wider. Also, it does not have the mesh cover.

Leather is still standard on the new facelift Sportivo's... not an option. In the UK its an option.

No BS.

OK So here is the deal, I got a 20K service today and while they were there they did the upgrade. Firstly normally after a service I notice a slight improvement in power, this time there was nothing, not only that but the security light on the car was flashing while I was driving.

I turned around and took it back, they played with it for 2 hours before putting the original ECU back in which has stopped the flashing light.

They are going to order another ECU and get it sent to a closer dealer for me but get this, coming home from Melb I was just cruising, took off from the lights at a normal pace, came to the next set and down shifted to 2nd as I was slowing down........... CRUNCH!!!!!! Second gear and its Synchros now need replacing. The dealer took it for a spin today and confirmed this is definately a malfunction as if it was my driving it would have come on gradually, not just in one gear change.

Oh dear, and I used to be one of the only untroubled users on here :(.

Bad luck mate.

As I said earlier, you'll see a new Stivo only in 2005.

Well its done.. And my first impressions.. Well dont expect any Rocket ship.. What you get is much improved feel in the 4500 - 6000 Rpm range.. Definitely a little more peak power but as we were told by our SA buddies not tyrefrying at all...

The revised Air Box lid looks exactly the same as the one it came off the production line with.. The difference I see is in the design of the intake exit covers.. For those that havent seen inside their Airbox the is a white tube that covers the exit from the airbox internally.. In standard form the tube has a grided arrangement.. The revised part has the grid removed and a centre divider put in its place.. I guess you will understand more when you see it for yourself... I dont have my digital camera handy so I cant take any pics atm..

But this is the biggy... !!! :o They put the new and revised shifter cables in also with the new design heavier shift knob.. Now this is what really makes me happy, the shifter rattle is completely gone and the shift is now a whole heap more positive.. The best mod so far IMO... :)

So make sure when you get your recall letters you ask for both mods to be done.. The Ecu and Lid and the ****er mods...

Cheers,

Matt

Nice to see that you guys are getting your upgradesw now.

Give the ECU between 200km and 500km to "settle in" as it measures certain parameters within the first few warm up cycles. Driving style seems to be important during this period (I can't say why, but take it from me - it makes a difference). So teach that ECU some manners and have lots of fun filled kilometers

sporthatch141 lucky u, your servicing guys are moving fast, i just rang up to schedule my 12 month service, wanting to get the recall done at the same time (save me a trip down there) and they said that they cant do it, until the letters get sent out, so i'm going to put off my service until that happens.

also, do u guys bring your own oil to them? i'm not sure exactly wot vvtli oil is, thats wot they put in last time, wot do u recommend i do? and wot oil should i buy/request. thanks in advanced!

Well things just got a little more interesting. While the car has been booked in for Monday next week, TCC were surprised because they indicated they doubted the dealer had the parts ! I am awaiting a call back from the dealer...

RE: Oil

According to my service report for 1000K service they put in the Castrol GTX2 full synthetic oil.

GTX 2 is a mineral oil - not synthetic. Futron and GTX Magnatec is semi synthetic.

Also, the TMC approved oil is GTX 2

Guys. does anything seem fishy to you? why would a lack of engine power trigger action from ADR over engine noise? unless its the other way around. be weary guys. they may be playing games. Generally speaking, to make things quieter would mean a loss in power right? so does that mean they have a more restrictive airbox and detuned ECU in store? Hmmm interesting. I don't mean to stir the pot but just wanted everyone to keep their heads up and play it safe.

If for instance, they came out and stated that the engine is too loud by Australian Design regulation for a "non sportscar" and all owners now have to return their cars for de-tuning. what kind of reaction do you think they would get? (rhorical question :P ) i have some reservations about this whole "free upgrade" sounds a little fishy.

Chill, mate. In terms of Aussie standards, vehicles producing more than 140kW are considered to be sport vehicles. Therefore, the staqndard allows for a higher noise level. When the vehicle was approved for the Australian market (through homologation standards), the noise levels were tested in one gear (a requirement for 140+ kW vehicles. However, as it was discovered that the vehicles delivered less than 140kW (thanks to us ) it was realised that the car had not been properly homologated. Thats all.

If the fieldfix on the Australian destined Sportivos is exactly like the SA spec vehicles, the following information may be relevan and may answer some of your questions.

The new air box cap is less restrictive than the unit that it replaces. The induction module no longer has a step down

The ECU has been remapped to advance timing from 21 degrees to 24 degrees under full blown throttle. This will NOT put any additional pressure on any drivetrain components. It will not result in pinging, either. The timing can be advanced (through a remap) easily to 27 degrees without any risk of mechanical failure.

As noted in another post, the upgraded cables no longer feature metal sleeves and will be available from October. The kit also includes a new (heavier) gearknob to improve feel.

On the performance and chip side of things. Don't expect a fire breathing dragon after the upgrade. The vehicle will be more driveable between 3000 and 6000 rpm, with a noticeable improvement in torque (around 7 Nm in that rev range). If you're expecting 10kW or 20kW, you're going to be dissapointed. Actual power gained (on the wheels) should be between 2 and 5kW.

I don't really frequent this forum that often. If you need additional info, please pm me.

Hi all

Just some feedback on the gear cable rattle issue. TSA have confirmed that new level cables have been designed and will be available in October in South Africa for rollout to vehicles affected by the gear cable vibration issue. Vehicles will not be recalled but will be subject to the fieldfix on a complaint basis. The new cable no longer has inner metal sleeves. Furthermore, a new heavier gearknob (100g) will be supplied as part of the kit. The kit also includes a bracket mounted to the firewall.

The replacement of the gear cables does NOT require the removal of you dashboard. What does need to be removed is the silver panel around the gear lever. The centre consol (consol between the drivers seat) needs to also be removed. There is a computerbox ahead of the gearlever (once the consol is removed) that will also need to be removed. The excersise is not pleasant as the panels can be damaged during removal and refit if not looked after. Particular care should be taken when removing the center consol as it can scratch against the seatbelt bolts. The silver panel should be carefully stowed away to prevent scuffing during the fix.

Hmm its the 4AGE 20V all over again..

Factory Claimed Power output - 127KW

Real world Output - 105Kw

Once aircon, Alternator, Waterpump etc was fitted it lost power.

Toyota seems to be building up a reputation..

Remember while these engines are great they are only Naturaly Aspirated engines so its give and take. Like all cars even ones with the closets modifcations one might be marginaly faster/better from an identical two.

The 2ZZGE's Real Engine Power output is in the 130KW Region and here is the development document to prove it (SAE TECHNICAL PAPER SERIES 2000-01-0671)

Development of the High Speed 2ZZ-GE Engine

Takasuke Shikida, Yoshikatsu Nakamura, Tamio Nakakubo

and Hiroyuki Kawase

Toyota Motor Corp.

http://www.users.on.net/~nark/2zzGE%20Engine.pdf

No ways mate. The SA spec version was rated at 115kW and we got every drop of it.

Am I the only person who thinks our's is nicer? the new one has:

Same motor

Same gearbox

NO leather

NO backlit dash

NO silver bits inside (all black looks cheap I reckon)

I seriously don't like the new one.

Cheers

Blade

NOBOADY HEARD OF SUSPENSION?

In Europe its already out.

Apart from slightly different looks you get new suspension which alone is wort waiting for. It's as comfy as before, but in turns feels like CTR.

It has shocks with sort of "return springs" built in (they help to expand the shock) plus strut braces with dynamic stiffness control. Look beautiful.

Impossible to cheaply install in before face lift due to different shock mounts.

The South African and Australian versions DO NOT get the suspension mod.

Also, the Optitron dash stays in the Stivo / RunX RSi

The "silver bits" gets replaced by carbon fibre look finishes.

The seats remain unchanged

BTW, the Stivo is likely to reach Aussie shores only in the new year!!!

Hi QUICKSILVER,

organ meant South Australia when he indicated SA ;) ;)

Cheers

Bill

My bad!!!!!! Sorry

i'm starting to get the rattles now. just after my 10,000km service. and last night (14degrees) i had problems shifting from 1st to 2nd :( it's never happened before. it was like the gear wanted to stick in 1st and it was hard to pull it out of 1st.

Ahhh, so you too.

It seems that the reason for this is 2 fold:

1stly, these boxes are extremely sensitive to ambient temperature.

Secondly, a reason could be windup, which is perfectly normal - i.e. the wheel speed, transaxel speed and engine speed are not in sync at the point that you want to shift. Apparently, its a law of physics, which the gearbox design does not defy.