thx for the lead man, i'll definately suss it out... since making this post i've designed a parcel tray from the ground up that wont warp and will support speakers with an amp using super strong 10-12mm ply. i managed to spot a tray in another celica at a used car lot... convinced the manager to let me borrow it so i could get the demenisions, and now i have a template... regardless i'll prolly still get a std tray for when i dont want to come across as muzza :) thx again No worries, I got some more numbers at work but its all in Syd or Adelaide as I can get free freight from Adelaide though my work. If you want them I can post them upto you.