RICE RACING

lol might promote a crack so I can get a new motor :D

I have been having delusional thoughts of selling my AWD KX-S which has 24000km on it. But its a grass is greener on other side type fantasy.... was really just wondering what else would be better @ similar money and thus have not followed through with a for sale ad personally.

nerdygril,

The ONLY down side of GPS is start up (detecting the exact moment of the car starts moving). So 0-100kmh testing is still measured by the ECU data.

:D Some of us have proper GPS scientific instruments :D

So 0-100kmh or 0 to 0.01kmh can be more accurately measured than by any other means :P

Rubbish toy type GPS units like in phones, Tom Tom's, Motec, Garmin, < LOL are NOT of scientific grade, thus they have gross errors of margin on very small measures and quick time scales (due to very low sample speeds *typically less than 10 Hz*). To give you an idea a high end 100Hz capable (100 individual independent measures of position per second) GPS engine costs $10,000 (just the electronic component alone).

Sorry to be picky but the internets is only really good for porn most of the time rather than sharing technical truth.

Had to go to Melbz again today from Bairnsdale, inc city traffic round/return trip average was 8.4lt per 100km (550km covered) on way down before I branched off freeway was showing 7.8lt per 100km for the 275km gentle drive from home.

The economy on the Valvoline oil is at least a match for the Mobil 1 I was using previously, It seems to be even better. Have to repeat this trip next week (to collect my RX7 wheels I took to get restored) so see if I can get another similar result to back it up.

Saw about 1 million Klugers on the road along the whole journey, these cars are getting very popular!

Hi All ,

Has anyone heard of or have some knowledge of O2 sensors burning out with a LPG conversion. My Aurion has had 4 O2 sensors burnt out ( P00031) in one go. The car has 12 months to go on the new car warranty and Toyota says as I have had LPG installed my warranty is not valid. They are blaming the LPG for burning out th3 4 O2 sensors. The car has done 30000 klms and has only travelled 9000 klms under gas. All the LPG installers I have rung claim that this sensor burnout is unlikely. Does anyone have any ideas on this subject. Any comments appreceated.

DBR

LPG does burn much hotter than petrol typically. To give you an idea the Kluger already runs at stoichiometric mixtures on petrol and this means the EGT (exhaust gas temperature) will be quite high (in the order of 900deg C) the only way LPG will run at this temperature is for it to be run chemically rich (more fuel over the ideal economical amount) and this is not the way to set it up as your km's you can get to a tank will be low.

I would say given all of this that the likely hood of your 02 sensors being overheated are very real (as indicated by you going through 3 of them thus far!) and its a high probability in my experience of measuring the EGT of many vehicles and tuning them as well (although not tuning the Kluger) < but this can and will need to be addressed to stop the sensor failures.

The scientific way would be to drill into the exhaust manifold near the sensor and put in a thermocouple and measure the gas temperature for both fuels, I think you will find that the LPG will be over 1000deg C and the petrol below 900deg C.

Well I just did my 20,000km service and changed oil type to Valvoline full synthetic 0w-40 grade ($100 for 10lt V's $200 for the Mobil!), did the air filter and oil filter too.

Went for a drive to the IPRA club car nationals at Phillip Island for 2 days and did a return trip through Melbourne to pick up some tires for my RX7. All up trip was 840km and did an average of 9.2lt per 100km (on the way to PI (282km trip) it was 8.4lt per 100km *which is excellent*) at the track did lots of trips around the circuit perimeter over the two days and driving to and from camp ground etc and the traffic in Melb was just horrendous :( I don't know how people live there (had to go into Richmond).

Anyway the new oil seems even better than the Mobil economy wise. Here is a pick of the mighty Kluger ready to go on track :D

Well I am up to 22100km on the Kluger and she is running sweet, due for its 3rd service.

Have been driving her to and from town with odd highway trip thrown in and its averaged 9.8lt for the last 3480km. Overall I'd say its a win and happy to report it does not use any oil between changes either so I got a good one from the factory lucky dip :D of engines ;)

I'd say you got a great one from the lucky dip :)

Notice mine's been feeling a little sluggish and using more fuel since the last service when I changed to Mobil 1 Super Syn 0W-40. I woulsn't think the oil would be the reason for the change.

Yeah? I don't know. In my own case coming up for service I was going to switch to a cheaper oil but I think I will stick with the same its had from the 1000km mark being Mobil 1 0w-30 *the ultra expensive stuff*. I would not think engine oil would make such a big difference but hey all I need to do is re read this thread where I listed it all day by day and when I changed the oil the car measured a big difference in performance

I seem to think another member posted how he noticed a difference (noticeable less power and worse economy) when he changed from the ultra expensive Mobil 1 to a lesser specification but I could be dreaming?

Hey Rice,

Is it better to do your break in procedure quickly? For example, 500km per day and finish it on the second day. Or is it better to let the engine go down to room temp after each 200km milestone? Thanks.

Engines break is better when they are heat cycled, so do each stage from cold to hot, the more times you do this or spread it over more days/trips then the greater the amount of break in that will happen.

From memory I did mine over a few weeks.

As a side note I broke in one engine for my RX7 Mazda and hardly drove it ! (only did 200km) but I used around 150lt of fuel doing continual cold to hot operating temperature cycles (running engine for 20 minutes at a time), anyway I had to pull this engine apart only a few weeks ago to measure the wear of some parts and the main bearings and other sealing elements all broke in very well on this "cold to hot" heat cycle method (as used in model RC engines).

So from that above example the more you can space it out the better, though not practical for most people.

Well I am up to 22100km on the Kluger and she is running sweet, due for its 3rd service.

Have been driving her to and from town with odd highway trip thrown in and its averaged 9.8lt for the last 3480km. Overall I'd say its a win and happy to report it does not use any oil between changes either so I got a good one from the factory lucky dip :D of engines ;)

I'd say you got a great one from the lucky dip :)

Notice mine's been feeling a little sluggish and using more fuel since the last service when I changed to Mobil 1 Super Syn 0W-40. I woulsn't think the oil would be the reason for the change.

Yeah? I don't know. In my own case coming up for service I was going to switch to a cheaper oil but I think I will stick with the same its had from the 1000km mark being Mobil 1 0w-30 *the ultra expensive stuff*. I would not think engine oil would make such a big difference but hey all I need to do is re read this thread where I listed it all day by day and when I changed the oil the car measured a big difference in performance

I seem to think another member posted how he noticed a difference (noticeable less power and worse economy) when he changed from the ultra expensive Mobil 1 to a lesser specification but I could be dreaming?

Well I am up to 22100km on the Kluger and she is running sweet, due for its 3rd service.

Have been driving her to and from town with odd highway trip thrown in and its averaged 9.8lt for the last 3480km. Overall I'd say its a win and happy to report it does not use any oil between changes either so I got a good one from the factory lucky dip :D of engines ;)

I'm interested to hear what people are paying for a KX-R AWD in more recent months. I sold my Landcruiser 100 series today (it'll take me a long time to get over it! :( ) and am looking at down sizing into a Kluger. I spoke to a Toyota dealer yesterday who said I should be able to drive away in an AWD KX-R for about $45k. Like the last poster asked, is there any word of a refresh anytime soon?

Cheers,

The only thing I miss from my 100 series was the build quality and tough quality engineering, the Kluger is rubbish by comparison in those two aspects....... but it more than makes up for it in fuel efficiency, looks, handling, very cheap servicing, and unbelievable performance.

Overall you will be happy with the Kluger, I actually like mine more than the 100 series petrol I had.

Anyone noticed whether the bonnet is hotter with the engine cover removed? I'm a little concerned with the potential for additional heat from the engine to accelerate the degredation of the clear coat over time.

Absolutely not, if anything the engine bay is cooler as the motor can dissipate the heat or reject it as its meant to do rather than bottling it all in with the token crap looking insulating cover on top of all of the vital electronics and the poor little engine itself :)

Remember the simple fact about the internets and forums....... Most all of them are wrong! You need to look behind the people giving you the information and their qualifications and also Reality based experiences V's the Virtual worlds token sample of one or two from people who have discovered a forum gives them a voice and the internets gives them factual informational credibility :)

I can't tell you strongly enough, taking the crap cover off is the best thing you can ever do for your poor suffering engine

LOL ^

The loom is stiffer cause its rooted from heat

EVERYTHING suffers!

This is not an internets opinion rather it's engineering facts, stuff that I have been exposed too since 1991 when I first started out with cars and doing my job!

Leave the cover on if you want to degrade your cars engine! Take the POS off if you want it to be better like I said, the advise is free and you can thank me years down the track

I suggest you buy the tool, I did and I have all the other tools described and decided to not do it the easy way.

You will enjoy it and have the knowledge that the job is done right and you have used the premium oils for the same or less cost than the rip off department :)

Dude, make your self familiar with my posts and threads, search is your friend :) I talk about this topic at length ;)

e.g.

Have you tow your FD yet?

I am living in an unit and do not have space for a lightweight trailer, so I had to hire one that is 650kg. The car is nearly 1300kg and it is just ok to tow....

I will try to get some oil change every 5000km. So the Toyota is semi synthetic... how much do I need for oil change again?

No I am in process of purchasing a trailer to suit the FD... IF this proves too difficult or costly I may make my own. SO now towing as yet. Yeah Toyota use a semi synthetic oil (depending on dealer, each has their own contracts with various suppliers, Valvoline, Castrol or Mobil etc) none will use full synthetic of the grade like 0W-40 as its simply far too costly for them (cant cover it in $150 fixed price and pay for shop hourly rate *NOT LABOR COSTS!* read below! *).

As an idea @ wholesale you need $80 ~ $100 worth of oil alone to do the change inc filter amount (6.1 liters) without filter I think its 5.7lt and totally dry engine its around 7lt or so...

* The oil any dealer will use will only cost them about $20 per 6lt !!! add a $6 filter on top and the KENTS are making a fortune each time you take the car in ($112 profit!!!) to pay an apprentice $12 for 1 hours work to change your oil and to TRASH your car around the block "to test it"

So I look at it this way, I buy the BEST oil money can buy, take much more care than any apprentice will working on my own car and do the job properly and it costs me about $50 LESS than if I went to my dealer + my car does not get FLOGGED by some young KENT in the name of a "test drive"

(Below is e-mail today from a company I enquired about the tool to remove the oil filter body assembly and the reply they gave me RE new part number etc... my local dealer is giving me one for $41.05 and I am picking it up tomorrow, but this is the go for anyone else interested or if they want to hit up their local dealer wanting this part and getting a crap answer from the spares department

Peter.Rickard@servicesolutions.spx.com

Hi Peter,

Part number 09228-06501 has been discontinued.

It has been replaced by 09228-06500-02

65MM across flats, 14 flats.

We don't have this part in stock, but can get one from the US in about 3 - 4 weeks from order.

Price including delivery and GST would be $36.56, but would need to be pre-pay as you don't have an account with us.

Normally, cash sales would have to exceed $250.00, but I can make a bit of an exception!

Curiously, we have the same product under a different part number, that is in stock ex-MEL, but three times the price.

So if you have to have one now, it would cost $66.30 incl. delivery & GST.

Any questions, don't hesitate to email me.

Thanks,

Pete.

Hey Rice, is it actually possible to re-program or flash the ecu at all similar to the Ford Flash tuners?

I do not know in this specific case, I tune 100's of rotaries in my time and while there are gains to be had its probably more true than not the reason why the injection/ign map is set is for reliable operation. The stock ECU is very smart, adjusts to different fuel types and alters the power (ign timing to match) probably tweaks the fuel too, but the times I have check it the fuel curve seems the same regardless of octane, though it does vary with what gear you are in.

Moral is someone needs to do 100+ Klugers and have a bank of reliable running cars (for hundreds of thousands of kilometers) before I myself would let mine be retuned or chipped etc < you need to verify long term effects.

Chasing a fwhp or dyno glory has its short comings, not sure I would bother with my daily driver :) I am happy with the speed and all round package of my car out on the highway not much can match it :D

:o

Has anyone considered fitting the supercharger from the TRD Aurion to the engine - if so what probs would this cause

A lot of detonation at a guess :D

Engine compression ratio has been optimized to run N/A and not forced induction, so on knock limited fuel (remember the N/A stock Kluger donk varies in power a fair bit depending on what fuel octane you use) then you can expect vastly greater fuel consumption (<as this will be needed to cool the engine). Then the timing will need to be retarded greatly and this will reduce the thermal efficiency and use even more fuel again.

Take off the power you need to drive the supercharger and you will have a poor engine set up.

To do it properly the compression ratio would need to be reduced and the most efficient form of pressurizing the engine is with a Turbo Charger and not a belt driven super charger which sucks power from the output shaft of the motor.

Supercharging really is a backwards step in terms of power and efficiency. Nice for Drag racing on methanol though, makes awesome explosions and metal fragments showering into the sky with a matching ball of flame :D

Hey Rice, is it actually possible to re-program or flash the ecu at all similar to the Ford Flash tuners?

I do not know in this specific case, I tune 100's of rotaries in my time and while there are gains to be had its probably more true than not the reason why the injection/ign map is set is for reliable operation. The stock ECU is very smart, adjusts to different fuel types and alters the power (ign timing to match) probably tweaks the fuel too, but the times I have check it the fuel curve seems the same regardless of octane, though it does vary with what gear you are in.

Moral is someone needs to do 100+ Klugers and have a bank of reliable running cars (for hundreds of thousands of kilometers) before I myself would let mine be retuned or chipped etc < you need to verify long term effects.

Chasing a fwhp or dyno glory has its short comings, not sure I would bother with my daily driver :) I am happy with the speed and all round package of my car out on the highway not much can match it :D

:o

I would love to test a Kluger that had a full exhaust system fitted and and maybe a reprogrammed ECU, The problem with the Kluger in stock form is the Air fuel ratio varies at random some times and as I have shown the ECU can and does pull power out of the engine when it decides to do so (has a big impact on tested performance) also it changes gear too early.

It is a real great car as it is (nice and quiet) it would be a real shame to make it loud and only have a marginal increases in power and speed. Naturally aspirated engines are like that sadly there are big negatives (noise) that go along with increased performance gains.

Personally if I wanted more power and low down power, I would turbocharge my Kluger, keep it nice and quite and have about double the low down power it has now.... that would be an excellent combination for performance, though it would punish the excellent fuel economy :)

In Summary

#1 Reprogrammed ECU (Engine tuning & also to control when gearbox changes, a couple of hundred more rpm would make it faster as it makes peak power where it changes gear)

#2 Exhaust (but it would need to be very high quality one that did not increase noise to much)

Ultimate

#1,2,3,4...... Turbocharge it :)

Hi Guys

paint protection what is it ?

does it work?

How Much?

or

is it just a upgrade sales scam

love to hear your feed back

thanks in advance

Deposit down :D

two weeks till pick up

scam ;) I told em to save their breath and physically put up my hand "speak to the hand" when I was buying mine lol

Mine one year on looks mint, have not even polished it!

Well car is just going great :D I really should drive it more.

Did not think I would still like it a year on, but its really the perfect combination of performance, efficiency, and very versatile vehicle.

The ethanol scam is just that! a total scam! do not fall for it

* it's bad for your wallet

* bad for you engine

* bad for the environment

It is an EPIC FAIL.

I have driven another 30km or 40km on from the 0km left on display and it took like 67.5lt or so?

I would say you can safely do another 50km when 0 shows up on the distance to go meter if you are averaging 10lt per 100km. I am amazed at how accurate the systems are in this car with regards to fuel used and what is displayed etc.

Hi everyone 09 kluger alttitude

I have just arrived in Bundanoon in the southern high lands of NSW

Left Melbloune with a full tank of e10 from coles service station and 940kms on the clock filled up at albury with e10 again from united arrived with just unerd 1/2 a tank and a total trip of 700ks (therabouts)

averaged 10.4-10.6 with 2 adults and 2 kids couple of bikes on the back and enough clothes for a week very happy with this considering the weight of the car being close to 2350kgs (guessing here but close) loaded

went up the hume so sat on the 110 to 112 on cruise turnrd off the cruise on some of the bigger hills.

Checked the speedo on one of the overhead gantries on the way out of Melboune had the cruise right on 110 and the gantry said 104 so did compensate for this when setting the cruise control not sure if this effected the overall result?

will try normal unleaded on the way home next week and report back

Would love to get the figures better than 10 like the some others in this thread. Will it happen ???

That economy is good given that run down.

It will be better again on proper petrol and not rubbish sugar cane crop cut "fund John's mates up north" crap :D

Best fuel I have found for economy is 95 Oct or Premium from either BP or Mobil, next best is 98 oct, then the 91 or whatever it is.... never ever put sugar in your Kluger! it costs you more in the long run and it is no good for anything in your engine let alone your back pocket!

It is a piece of crap that needs to be removed as soon as is possible !

I took mine off one day after getting my Kluger ;) you can read my main thread to see what the engine looks like without it and the benefits of doing so :)

After 18,000km there is NO dirt or other rubbish on the engine at all, but unlike all other cars that leave the cover on my wiring harnesses all over the engine are soft and pliable and show no signs of heat stress as would be the case with the cosmetic rubbish plastic cover attached.

Do it, it's the best mod you can do to your car :)

I just ordered (from UK) a K&N air filter for my K and other 2 cars.

$50 for a bit of paper mache, or even more for another car, is just a bit too rich for me.

So for a little bit more, I will get one that last forever and apparently offers other benefits.

Pretty much half price (compared with Repco) for each including postage!!!. Clearly - this is still a penal colony

Will let you know any performance/economy benefits.

Please post details/link... I need to change my filter soon.

Im very close to ordering a Kluger AWD based on the belief it has a different system to the RAV4 - that is; unlike the RAV4's 'on-demand' setup, the Kluger is an actual AWD system and drives all four wheels all the time. However, an article I read about the Kluger today indicated the AWD Kluger is the same as the RAV4 - 'on-demand'. Can anyone shed some light in this and confirm what they understand the system to be?

Cheers,

Dan

^ Thankfully she is permanent 4wd (50% power to front & 50% to rear) :) Hence full traction on 0-100kmh tests (or so I am informed cause I would never actually do those in mine as I am no Hoon)