LPG / GAS Conversion

[GShadow]

I am writing this to give others considering converting to gas some inside information and possibly some tips on the way.

I dropped off my 2008 Aurion ZR6 with 26,000km for conversion to gas today, will pickup late tomorrow. I will be filling in the details and experiences I go through with this conversion over the next few months.

The system being installed is a vapour injection system with a toroidal (donut tank) in the spare wheel well. The usable litres in the tank will be 52lt. The car will start on petrol and once the engine reaches operating temperature automatically switch to gas, if the gas tank is empty it will automatically switch to petrol and of cause I will have the option of manually switching to gas or petrol. When running on gas the lt/100km dash display will not work nor will the distance to empty. Once switched back to petrol the gauges will operate as usual.

I previously had a 2001 V6 Camry converted to gas with a donut tank, virtually no loss of boot space. I say virtually because the donut tank does sit a bit higher than a spare wheel so it does take up a little space

Concerned about punctured tyres and no spare? In the eight years I had my last car without a spare tyre I didn’t have a flat, I always carry two cans of inflate and seal stuff so the only time I would be in trouble is with side wall damage. I have had to use the inflate and seal cans but it was for a mates car when he managed to puncture two tyres at the same time, he had one spare tyre and I donated a repair can for the second puncture and he was on his way.

The conversion is not cheap $4000 but with the price of petrol and the fact that I have a heavy foot it will pay for itself within two years. For me it’s not about the time it takes to pay it off, its that when I fill up on LPG it will cost me approximately $30.00. I expect the $30 to get me 370km around town (about 14lt/100km) and freeway should be 10lt/100 maybe less or 520km to my $30.00. On petrol at $1.55 per litre 60lt = $93.00 and I would get 500km around town and 750km freeway. At the moment I get about 12lt/100km on 98RON (premium fuel) I only use premium. Yes I can get closer to 10.5lt/100km if I drive like a grandma, freeway driving I get about 8lt/100km.

Around Town 370km:

Gas $30.00

Petrol $47.70

Saving $17.70 every 370km

Freeway 520km:

Gas $30.00

Petrol $65.00

A whopping saving of $35.00 every 520km

I am only guessing the gas consumption from my experience with my Camry and from what I have read and been told about vapour injection. Will give exact gas usage after my first gas fill up. Will report back in a few days

[SirNed]

Already have the LPG system on mine. I got the Orbital Direct injection system and am real happy with it. It actually has more power on the LPG. More get up and go. If anything like my old bomb that I had it on it may lose about 10kph on the top end but who can get up there nowadays. I didn't get the toroidal, as much as I wanted it I got a really really good deal on the installation so didn't argue the point. Cost me $2250 then I get govt discount so $1250 for the install. My tank holds 65litres so get around 530k on country run and around 470k per tank around town. Works out around 11-12 kpl Driving around town on petrol I usually hover around the 9.5-10 pl on petrol so not much difference between the two. Getting the 8c pl of at coles and woolies at the moment and my fuel costs me 50 cpl. Gotta love it. IF I do 15000 k this year I have made my money back

[Buff Hamster]

Did you guys have to change any parts of the engine when converting over to lpg? I know if my Landcruiser i had to change the head gasket as the stock one wasn't strong enough so support the lpg.

[GShadow]

A Buff Hamster:

No change to engine for my conversion nor my 2001 Camry. The vapour injection requires a second set of injectors in the head, a converter to change the liquid gas to vapour and a CPU to interface with the Toyota CPU. New engines that are designed to run on unleaded should not require changes in head gaskets or valves. Unleaded fuel does not have the lubrication that lead used to offer in leaded fuel.

[GShadow]

Already have the LPG system on mine. I got the Orbital Direct injection system and am real happy with it. It actually has more power on the LPG. More get up and go. If anything like my old bomb that I had it on it may lose about 10kph on the top end but who can get up there nowadays. I didn't get the toroidal, as much as I wanted it I got a really really good deal on the installation so didn't argue the point. Cost me $2250 then I get govt discount so $1250 for the install. My tank holds 65litres so get around 530k on country run and around 470k per tank around town. Works out around 11-12 kpl Driving around town on petrol I usually hover around the 9.5-10 pl on petrol so not much difference between the two. Getting the 8c pl of at coles and woolies at the moment and my fuel costs me 50 cpl. Gotta love it. IF I do 15000 k this year I have made my money back

Where did you get your Orbital Direct injection system and for that price! and it's liquid injection too!? WOW. I got quotes from many places and $4k was the running price for vapour injection add another $1000 for liquid injection. Although most places when pushed on the liquid injection recommended against it as the technology is still new and they all said there were still teething problems with it.

I originally wanted liquid injection for the extra power (apparently only slight if any improvement in economy) but shied away because of extra cost and installers not recommending it.

Edited November 3, 2011 by GShadow

[GShadow]

Picked up the car today, the people at LPGAS Lilyday are really good. Nice and tidy install they also threw in a puncture repair kit consisting of green slim and a small compressor.

The donut tank does not sit up as high as I thought it would, sits 2cm maybe 3cm higher than the spare tyre would so there is almost no noticeable loss of boot space.

However I was informed the Injection system uses higher pressure than the older systems and I would only get about 48lt usable gas out of the 60lt tank not the 52lt I used to get in my older Camry.

The system starts on petrol and switches seamlessly over to gas once the engine is warm and the revs are on a decrease, it will also automatically switch over to petrol if the gas runs out. At idle I can manual switch from gas to petrol and you can not pick the switch, no change in revs or engine noise absolutely seamless change. Can also manually switch fuels while driving just best done while the revs are decreasing.

I can pick no change in engine power from gas to petrol, the car is still a rocket when I want it to be.

Only catch so far is when I first went to fill the tank, the tank was only about a quarter full and I need it full to start working out the mileage, any way went to fill the talk and it would not accept any more gas. I was in a hurry and didn’t have time to try another pump, about an hour later and 50km down the road I had time to try and fill again, this time it filled no problems taking 32lt and costing $17.00.

I called LPGAS Lilyday about it not filling and was told if it continued to be a problem bring it back when it suited me. I hope it was just the stations gas pump and not the tank cut off valve sticking. I know some ppl remove the 80% cut off valve so they can fill the tank to 100% and make sure they drive for a decent distance before stoping. The 80% cut off is to allow for gas heat expansion. Don’t think it’s a good idea to remove this safety feature I’m also sure it would make it unroad worthy but I sure wish it would fill to 90%.

Will know my first gas usage in a day or two and will submit my claim form for government rebait of $1250.00 on Monday.

Once I have time will upload some photos of gas cylinder and engine bay.

[GShadow]

OK, added some photos.

Just filled up the gas tank again after doing 102km, I used 9.76 litres costing $5.25. Every petrol station has different pressure pumps and filling will vary depending on the incoming gas pressure. Next time I will try to fill up at the same petrol station and that will give me a more accurate measure.

If this is close to correct and I used 10lt of gas for 102km I will be wrapped. About 40km of that 102km was freeway driving so a 60/40 split. Yes about $5.00 for 100km I should be able to drive to Adelaide or Sydney for under $40.00.

Now for the install: You will see in the photos a valve saver installed, this is a

upper head lube and was an option I asked for and is not fitted as standard, this helps lubricate the valves and maybe help the engine run a little cooler, fill once every 10,000km or so with valve saver available at nearly all auto parts outlets. Cost about $15 for 1 litre and one bottle should get you about 15,000km. It’s not fitted as standard as installers don’t believe it is necessary in modern engines.

I have only just reinstalled the boot floor board holding the tyre tools and the boot carpet and it sits so flat no one would know there was a gas tank there. I have to revise my previous guess that the donut tank sits 2cm to 3cm higher than a spare tyre, it only sits about 1cm higher.

[Spider]

Where is you filler for the gas? Thank you.

[SirNed]

The gas filler sits in nice and snug with the petrol filler. Only notice it is in there when you open it up.

[Niraj]

The gas filler sits in nice and snug with the petrol filler. Only notice it is in there when you open it up.

Hi,

Does LPG affect the engine life? Does Toyota recommend the LPG convertion?

Thanks

[GShadow]

Where is you filler for the gas? Thank you.

Just as SirNed said, it is in with the petrol filler.

Added a photo of filler

[GShadow]

The gas filler sits in nice and snug with the petrol filler. Only notice it is in there when you open it up.

Hi,

Does LPG affect the engine life? Does Toyota recommend the LPG convertion?

Thanks

Hmmm, some big questions you are asking there.

LPG is a high octane fuel and a cleaner burning fuel it will actually reduce wear and tear on engine components. The system being installed must be a good one from a reputable dealer. As I mentioned earlier I have had installed the flashlube kit as LPG does not lubricate as much as petrol does, but modern engines are designed for less lubricating unleaded fuels anyway.

Go ask a taxi company, there engines are doing 400,000 + Km on gas, my 2001 Camry on the older less reliable venturi system has done 150,000Km on gas and the engine still idles and sounds as smooth as the day it was converted. The suspension and other components are a different matter.

Toyota does not recommend converting the Aurion to Gas and you could lose warrantee on engine and component directly related to the engine. Some Toyota models are listed as ok to convert; you can find them here http://www.toyota.com.au/faqs

If you ask me using ethanol fuels would be much more damaging to the engine than LPG

Edited November 8, 2011 by GShadow

[GShadow]

Update Update Update . . .

Just completed another 205km, toped up the gas tank from the same pump I used last time so the measurements should be very accurate. This time the 205km was all suburban traffic driving no freeway and lots of heavy footing, always first off at the lights, impatient overtaking and getting up to speed quick smart.

205km used 26.8 litres, close enough to 13.4lt per 100km.

If you factor in the way I drive that’s pretty good, when driving hard I was using 13lt /100km on premium petrol.

Current prices

Premium petrol 151.9 @ 13lt = $19.75

LPG 53.9 @ 13.4lt = $7.22

What about E10 sh*t 133.9 @ 13lt = $17.40 (more likely use more than 13lt of E10 per 100km)

There is currently only 2.5c per litre excise on LPG and will increase every year till 2015 to total 12.5c per litre.

The petrol excise is 38.14c per litre.

I know gas and petrol prices will be different in 2015 but I’ll just throw an extra 12.5c onto current LPG prices and see how it looks. LPG with excise 66.4 @ 13.4lt = $8.9

What about the most expensive LPG I can find in Australia happens to be Darwin 92.9! where ULP is 151.9 (hey same price as premium fuel in Melbourne). Darwin LPG 92.9 @ 13.4lt = $12.45

Anyway you crunch the numbers LPG is a winner in my wallet

Edited November 10, 2011 by GShadow

[czaja74]

I know it is an old thread but I was wondering how is your car going. I'm thinking about converting too.