Countering understeer/oversteer in an FF?

[SuiCid3]

Just curious how you guys overcome this?

The time my Corolla understeered, I was able to correct it and keep on going...

Can't remember exactly what I did, but I think I backed off slowly then opened the throttle a little.

Happened too fast to place what I did exactly.. <_<

Also oversteered in a Camry. But that was more due to aquaplaning than hard driving.

[CAP]

Countering Understeer is a matter of smoothly/gently reducing throttle until the fronts grip and the nose tucks in. Back off on the throttle too suddenly and you're completely shifting weight of the rear wheels and you can induce 'lift off oversteer' which will most likely result in you facing where you just came from or worse.

Countering Oversteer in a FF is tricky.

Oversteer in a FR or RR is usually as a result of too much power being applied to the rear/driven wheels. Countering it in a FR or RR is 9 times out of ten only a matter of some opposite lock and reducing throttle until the tyres grip again.

In a FF oversteer occurs as a result of not enough weight holding the tyres down to the road when lateral forces are applied. To counter it, more weight needs to be shifted over the rears tyres. To do this you need to apply more throttle and opposite lock in a very small amount and then quickly be ready to correct your steering when the rear tyres do grip otherwise you'll just spin in the opposite direction.

Oversteer in a FF is difficult to catch (You only have to watch overseas touring cars to see this) and the best way to avoid it is not to induce it. Most times, oversteer in a FF results in a spin.

[evo]

my understanding (& what i tend to do) for oversteer in a fwd, would be to power through the oversteer with not much steering correction.

[MT]

what i was taught in my advance driving course was to back off whilst applying opposite lock, and when the nose comes back around gently accelerate out of the skid... works real well on a skid pan... never tried it on the road lol!

[Woody]

I'm a sales rep who spends all day driving & therefore my company has sent me on numerous driving courses. All seem to agree that the only safe & reliable way to overcome oversteer in an ABS enabled car (given differing conditions and road surfaces) is to apply the brakes. This only works in a car with ABS, don't try it without. Accellerating out of oversteer might be great if you're in the middle of a F1 race but unless you're a pro it can be very risky in normal driving situations.

If we're talking about track work here then obviously this doesn't help.

[Smurph]

As a general rule the best way to overcome a problem is not be faced with it and avoid it all together. If the situation it will come down to skill and expeirence, there is no read the 10 steps and following the instructions... :o

[evo]

there won't be a "10 steps and instructions for sticky situations" for the skilled an experienced cos it would be an instinctive reaction to the problem.

but i believe as a basic guideline, you should at least know what caused the 'problem' and given the situation most things considered, know of a solution.

which would be the reason why there are defensive/advanced driving courses around. I presume they would tell you the reasons behind certain things when they put you into a situation you're not used to.

this would then add to the driver's own experience in helping deal with theses sorts of things intuitively. i'm pretty sure that the driver would also be calmer about it and think properly rather than panicking.

[ZEEROLLA]

Best place to learn it is on the track, sydney siders can go to wakfield park and try Turn 1 - the kink leading up to the tight right hand corner.. flat out 4th gear 165km/h at the end of the straight towards turn 1, lift off trottle mid-way through the kink (if you are brave) and you will encounter oversteer at 160km/h! ;) even if you hold throttle through the kink and jump on the brakes at the last minute to slow right down for the 80km/h turn 2, the tail moves (especially with stock suspension setup!). Turns 4 and 5 are also great right hand corners to experience a bit of tail wagging. Wakefield Park is a great little racetrack to learn the physics and experience the G-forces :)

Edited March 24, 2006 by ZEEROLLA

[Ilivfor6]

I would advise you if you are concerned go and do a skidpan day organised by a company teaching skid control. Best to learn skid control (meaning cause,effect and how to rectify) at 40-50km/hr on a skidpan with only witches hats to hit than on a race track doing 160km/hr.

Here in Melbourne the group I drive with are on the track 1 to 2 times a month with quite a few of our track days under the tuition of qualified instructors including Allan Simonsen (British GT's, Le Mans Endurance), Matt Coleman (Carrera Cup), Will Davison (Minardi F1 test, Australian A1GP driver), Alex Davison (2004 Carrera Cup Champion, V8 Supercar driver), Jamie Whincup (V8 Supercar driver), Paul Stokell (Team Lamborghini driver), Dean Canto (V8 Supercar driver). On these days we learn how to driver faster and smoother on the track but they do not teach us skid control. They teach how to be smooth and avoid it.

To learn control in understeer/oversteer they advise go to a skidpan with qualified instructors. So thats what we have done, and are currently doing a skidpan day with a qualified instructor each month in place of 1 of the track days.

With our group having already completed a couple of advanced skid control days I can tell you the very first thing you are taught is when you skid the only reason you are skidding is because you have exceeded your tyres limit of grip. The basic fundamental rule is 'The foot that gets you into trouble is the foot that will get you out of trouble'. If you have entered a skid while going through a corner then the skid is caused by the speed and angle of turn have added up to exceed you tyres limits. To bring the tyres back within that limit you must reduce the things that caused it to exceed it. As you are going through a corner you cannot really reduce your steering input (unless there is safe run-off) so your only option is to reduce the speed component by easing up on the gas gently not jumping off it - you do not want to quickly change the wait bias of the vehicle. Unless you have great skill behind the wheel trying to power out of a skid will only end in more trouble. If you are out of control are you better adding on the power and losing it at 100km/hr or reducing the cause of the skid and possibly losing control at 50km/hr.

When it comes to counter steering you should only ever steer (point the wheels) in the exactly where you wish to go. Never point the wheels somewhere you do not wish to go.

What I have said is very simplified but it is what they teach on the skidpan. They also teach the theory behind which tyres in a situation are still within their limit of grip and why, and how that knowledge will enable you to take the correct action to bring the vehicle back under control! As the chasis moves around (changes its weight through acceleration, braking and cornering) the total grip level of each tyre changes with it. It's that knowledge that will enable you to avoid the skid in the first place and if worst comes to worst enable you to get out of it.

If you truly want to learn what to do in understeer/oversteer situations I strongly advise you go out and learn from qualified instructors in a safe environment. You will not learn reading someones posts on a forum and all you will get is contradicting information.

If you would like to learn properly under experienced qualified tuition here are a couple companies to contact.

In Melbourne:

Kevin Flynn's Driver Dynamics Pty Ltd

Advanced and Precision Driver Training

Worldwide Precision Driving Service

PO Box 572 Niddrie Victoria 3042 Australia

Telephone (Australia wide) 1300 652 693

Telephone (International) +61 413 540197

Email driverdynamics@optusnet.com.au

Web www.driverdynamics.com

www.driverdynamics.com.au

In Sydney: Events Oniell. www.eventsoneill.com (They run both track days and skidpan days in Sydney)

Sorry for the long post but it is a very important subject and may in fact one day save your life! My advice is spend a few hundred dollars (it will be the best money you will ever spend) and go learn from a qualified instructor!

Cheers

[SuiCid3]

Great post Ilivfor6. :)

I know, I'm still planning on going through some advance driving courses.

I've never driven at my limits, and I don't intend to on public roads.

One reason is because I don't know my limits, and the other is because I've yet to learn how to counter any errors I perform.

[CAP]

And believe me, Ilivfor6 is a

Track Whore !

:P

Edited March 27, 2006 by IZZ-FE