FUEL WARNING MESSAGE

[MARK BESSEN]

Hi, I have a 2012 200 series diesel Landcruiser which has recently started giving me a 'Check Fuel System' warning along with an amber exclamation warning sign once the fuel level drops below 1/4 of a tank. It has nothing to do with fuel filters as it still occurs after the filters have been replaced. After I refuel the message disappears. 

My mechanic suggested it could be the transfer pump in the fuel tank as he had seen this problem in Prados after around 160,000km. We replaced the pump but the problem is persisting. The issue first began at around 160,000km and the vehicle has now done 180,000km.

Has anyone else seen or heard of this issue? Suggestions would be gratefully received.

Mark

 

[campbeam]

Following is just a suggestion.

https://www.billrobertsontoyota.com.au/2020/03/05/toyota-australia-recalls-vehicles-due-fuel-pumps/ 

https://www.tat.net.au/pdfs/pages-index/isue29_oct012/issue290ct2012_p15.pdf 

 

[Adam99]

Did you end up sorting this issue. I have exactly the same problem. 

[Doyney]

We’re having the exact same thing that Mark described happening with our 2018 200 series. Does anyone have any suggestions, knowledge or experience?

[Lebo]

do you know any mechanics or auto electrician to put the car on a computer to see what error code comes something resetting error codes can help, or if you are wit RACV roadside call them out they will do a diagnosis and ask them to reset your codes while they are there 

[Maurice Madden]

Hi,

My 2013 200 series diesel Landcruiser has just displayed a 'Check Fuel System' warning along with an amber exclamation warning sign - the fuel level is below 1/4 of a tank and haven’t yet refilled to check if the warning disappears as Mark described.  I’ve replaced the fuel filter along with the procedure to reset fuel filter sensor dash warning but the 'Check Fuel System' warning is still displayed.

We are currently 600 kilometres from the nearest Toyota Service workshop so any suggestions/solutions will be much appreciated?

[Janes Picone]

G’day, Just wondering if anyone ever solved  this problem with the 200 series fuel system.

 Thanks 

Jim

[welshpomie]

Hi Mark i also had the exact problem with my 2013 Sahara July this year in Roma 1/4 tank of fuel light come on showing low fuel Black Toyota in Roma diagnosed problem with the pump between the tanks quite common with Landcruiser and Prado anywhere from 50,000 plus mine had done 200,000 KLMs was told to fill up tank and light will go out which it did only problem is it will happen each time your fuel tank gets to around 1/4 - 1/2  as time goes the pump malfunctions worse to the point of not working at all there is no time frame as to when the pump will stop $900.00 later problem solved at Gatton Toyota

[Bakidu]

19 hours ago, welshpomie said:

Hi Mark i also had the exact problem with my 2013 Sahara July this year in Roma 1/4 tank of fuel light come on showing low fuel Black Toyota in Roma diagnosed problem with the pump between the tanks quite common with Landcruiser and Prado anywhere from 50,000 plus mine had done 200,000 KLMs was told to fill up tank and light will go out which it did only problem is it will happen each time your fuel tank gets to around 1/4 - 1/2  as time goes the pump malfunctions worse to the point of not working at all there is no time frame as to when the pump will stop $900.00 later problem solved at Gatton Toyota

Hey mate, so what was the solution. Im having a similar problem with fuel not transferring between tanks and the fuel light is coming on at 1/4 tank. Did they just change the pump or was it the whole assembly? It’s been a problem I’ve been dealing with for months. Any info will be much appreciated. Cheers

[welshpomie]

Hi Bakidu          Toyota Service  dropped the fuel tanks replaced the fuel pump they had the Cruiser overnight no problem's since close to 7000 KLMS  as stated not a cheap option Toyota is not my normal Mech, the guy i normally  go to suggested take it to Toyota because its time consuming and better set up to do this type of repair as also stated pump can last a while and suddenly just stop which can be quite dangerous in the middle of traffic or on a back road out in the scrub  if you Click on the link https://www.billrobertsontoyota.com.au/2020/03/05/toyota-australia-recalls-vehicles-due-fuel-pumps/  regards Bryan

[Morgs68]

Hi Gents,

I’m another owner that is now having this same issue, 2013 Landcruiser. Tanks are being pulled out today to trouble shoot. From the history here, it seems they replace the pump, etc. Seems as though alot of 200 series are having this issue now. There is a fuel pump recall, however it doesn’t cover my Vin. Morgs

[GeoffW]

This conversation is quite old but doesn't seem to have a complete explanation.  It was extensively dealt with on the LCOOL.org forum (Land Cruiser Owners On Line) but that website has now been unavailable for more than a year.  What a shame as it was a great website for all info relating to Land Cruisers.  Anyway, I am very familiar with this problem and I will now give a full explanation.  Mine is a 2010 LC200 diesel.   I'm not sure if the petrol models have the same problem.

The problem is first noticed when the fuel warning light comes on at 1/4 tank and is blinking.  The normal fuel warning light comes on at about 1/8 tank and does not blink.  What the blinking light means is that the fuel level in the main tank is about 10 litres and the fuel in the sub tank is greater than about 10 litres.  When the main tank gets down to 10 litres, the sub tank should be empty.  This indicates a problem with the sub tank pump.  Be aware that the sub tank pump is located in the main tank.  It draws fuel from the sub tank when the computer turns it on.  It is a venturi pump - it pumps fuel in the main tank through a venturi which, in turn, draws fuel from the sub tank.  I'm not sure how the computer manages the pump, but I imagine it is something like this: when the main tank fuel level has dropped by a certain amount, say, 20 litres, it switches on the pump and re-fills the main tank from the sub tank.  This probably continues until the sub tank is empty.  I'm not sure but this detail doesn't matter.  When the warning light blinks, it means that the sub tank is not empty but the main tank is nearing empty, so there must be a fault.

The cause is usually the electrical connector in the top of the fuel pump assembly that fits into the top of the main tank.  Either the power or earth wire to the pump will be open circuit.  In the process, it experiences a high resistance which generates heat and melts the connector that goes to the pump.  I'm not sure now whether it was the connector on the pump lead or the underside of the connector in the lid of the assembly, but if you look closely (a magnifier will help) you might see the melted plastic.  This was the problem I had.   There was nothing wrong with the pump, just the connector.

I followed the instructions on LCOOL and cut the wires to the pump and routed 2 new wires through 2 holes drilled in the lid of the assembly.  These new wires were a tight fit in the holes I drilled and I thought there should not be any leakage there.  I also applied a fuel-proof sealer on each side of the hole in the lid.  On reflection, I should have obtained some neoprene grommets to fit the holes.  On the other end of the new wires, I soldered M&F push connectors so that the tank could be removed in future, if necessary, without the need to cut the wires.  I covered the connectors with heat-shrink tube.  The sub pump started working properly again.  However, some months later I discovered that if the fuel tanks were full and the vehicle was parked on just a slight hill, fuel would leak onto the road.  I have put up with that for a couple of years and made sure I didn't fill the tanks to full.

To do this repair I removed the tank from the vehicle.  Before you can do that, you need to open the inspection hole in the floor under the RH centre row passenger seat to disconnect the wires from the pump assembly.  To get to the inspection hole, you need to remove the seat and fold the carpet and underlay back.  I cut a hole on the carpet and underlay so that next time I would not have to remove the seat.  The cover on the inspection hole is held in place with butyl mastic.  When I replaced it I used silicone.  That was a mistake as I almost had to destroy the inspection cover to get it off.  Removing the seat and the tank is a 2 man job - unless you are Hercules.  A question I don't know the answer to is whether the fuel pump assembly can be removed through the inspection hole.  The ring which screws on to hold the assembly in place is quite tight and a special tool would be necessary to unscrew the ring.  I intend to make such a tool.  Previously, with the tank out, I made a tool to remove the ring, but that tool is too bulky to allow the ring to be removed through the inspection hole.  If anyone has knowledge about whether the pump assembly can be removed through the inspection hole, I would be grateful to hear it (0418 259 741).

I am about to sell my Land Cruiser (privately) so I have decided the replace the pump assembly.  The retail price from a Toyota dealer is in excess of $2,000.  I can source one from China via AliExpress for $328 AUD.  I will also check out some wrecking yards first.

I hope this helps someone.

Kind regards

Geoff

Edited April 12 by GeoffW

[KangaRooted]

Gidday Geoff,

Your comment above is probably one of the most comprehensive ones relating to this issue - at least that I've come across so far.  I've a cruiser of the same vintage and saw the dreaded flashing light a few months back.  This all came to a head for me this week when I went to visit my old man.  Obviously, some sort of warning but didn't really understand the actual issue.  I thought a sender unit issue in the beginning. 

I'd been driving around with the light flashing for some time.  As far as I was concerned, I had a whole tank of fuel - that is until I went to leave - the bloody car wouldn't kick over.  I did manage to get it going and headed off down the road only to find that the vehicle stalled at a set of lights a few Ks down the road.  I got it going again and limped it into a service station.  I put 50L of fuel into it; the engine kicked over after a bit and away I went.  I had wondered exactly what my issue was up until this time and had arrived at the conclusion that no fuel was being pumped from the aux tank into the main.  Your info above has now filled in the gaps and reaffirms what I was thinking - thankyou.  Essentially this error means you lose your ability to pump from the sub tank to the main one.  This is a LOT of fuel for me as I have a long-range sub tank.  I'm glad this happened in town and not in the middle of nowhere...

I am likely to take the same steps as you are above.  Can you please keep us in the loop with how it goes? Do you have any further information about the fuel pump you purchased?  Any links and feedback?

Were you able to remove the pump through the inspection hole?  I'm guessing not?

I have the benefit of not having any seats in the rear of my 200.  I have an extended set of draws and they can be removed in sections (middle section can be removed without having to remove the entire rear section) so I should be able to reach the inspection hole a little easier.  Still a bit of work, but I'm glad I'm not removing seats....

Thanks again for your post - it's been very helpful to me.  I hope you can provide more info on how you went with the replacement.

Regards

Steve

 

[GeoffW]

Steve,  I have purchased a second hand pump assembly from a wrecker (with 3 months warranty) for $250.  I hope it doesn't have the terminal showing signs of heat.  It should arrive next week.  I think I will be able to get the pump out through the inspection hole. I will keep you posted. 

Kind regards

Geoff

 

[KangaRooted]

I've just got a price from Toyota up here in QLD for the whole replacement unit...  (OUCH!!!! 😭)

I would share more information on my investigation so far, but apparently, I am a spam bot and can upload pictures, but not write the story to go with it.... without being pulled up for it......

I can tell you that I am getting no suction on what I believe is the fuel line from the sub to main tank.

I am however getting 13v on the fuel pump connection.  It comes on for a moment before going off.  I'm guessing because of this error. Perhaps the rail stops delivering power.....

My next step is to apply 12v to the pump and see if I can hear it in the tank making any noise.  Surely, I'd be able to hear something with the car not running - if it is working?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3 by KangaRooted

[GeoffW]

Yes, with 12v applied to the pump you can definitely hear it whirring if it is working.

Kind regards

Geoff

 

[Tony Clark]

On my 2002 Prado, the fuel transfer pump has a fuel filter which can block, causing increasingly less fuel transfer between the tanks. It may be the same for the Cruiser too.
I have not yet had an issue with mine even at 250000km, but that is low mileage for a 2002 Prado.

I hope that you have a filter that can be easily replaced. It could save you a pump replacement.

 

[KangaRooted]

Just tested before - I think its dead.  No noise - nothing.  I also note that the power supply I have actually delivers a really high-pitched noise when it is on.  When you connect it to something, that noise goes away.  In this case, when I connect to the terminals, the noise remains.  I'm going to have to get inside to look further.  Unfortunately, I simply don't have the room to do a job like that.  

Geoff, did you have any luck getting yours out through the inspection hole mate?  I'd seen a few Lexus owners actually cut the inspection hole to get this part out without dropping the tank.  Each to their own, but I'm looking to avoid anything that invasive....

 

[KangaRooted]

I was hoping for a trivial issue like a blockage, but seems Im out of luck....

[GeoffW]

Kanga, You wouldn't believe it, I found a pump at a Victorian wrecker.  He posted it to me but to the wrong address.  It was 10 days before I found this out.  I went to the wrong address and they said the didn't see it.  Austpost is adamant it was delivered.  The wrecker fortunately has another one.

So, I haven't taken the old one out yet.

Edited May 4 by GeoffW
error

[KangaRooted]

Jeez that's unfortunate.  

Here's hoping the next one makes it to the right place.

I've spent a long time looking, but I haven't seen any videos or images where that mechanism has come out through the inspection hole - I really hope I've just been looking in the wrong place!  I've got my fingers crossed for you Geoff!!

 

 

 

[GeoffW]

Definitely can't get the pump out through the hole in the floor.  The top of the pump has a larger diameter than the hole.  2nd pump has arrived from the wrecker.  I will be removing the tank and installing it today.

[KangaRooted]

Geoff, 

Are you able to let me know how far / high you had to get your car into the air to successfully drop the tank?

I guess my next step will depend on that distance.  Hope everything goes well for you when you are tackling it.

Thanks

[GeoffW]

I have a hoist so height wasn't an issue.  But, if you run the rear wheels up onto ramps, you shouldn't have a problem.  Remember, it is a 2-man job - one to support the tank and the other to connect the various pipes.  Take a few photos of the pipe layouts before you remove them.

Edited May 17 by GeoffW

[GeoffW]

I had better finish off my saga because it definitely didn't end with the installation of the new (2nd hand) pump.

I tested the new pump before installation and it worked fine.  I installed the pump and reinstalled the tank.  Knowing that the sub tank was full and the main tank was near empty, I expected the turning on of the ignition would have got the pump pumping.  It didn't.  I removed the relay that operates the sub-tank pump and it tested ok.  I eventually worked out that there was no earth connection to the relay coil.  There was +12V to socket for the other side of the relay coil and +12V at the terminal socket which connects to the pump when the relay closes.  I connected a temporary earth to the earth side of the coil (using a fine piece of telephone cable wire which can be slipped into the socket before the relay is reinstalled) and the pump ran.  I had previously identified this problem but concluded that the computer must control both the + side and the earth side of the relay coil, although I couldn't see why it would do this.  My problem was that the the pump problem didn't always occur.  If the gauge got to below a quarter and the fuel light didn't begin flashing, I could assume that the sub tank was near empty.  But, sometimes the fuel light would commence flashing once the gauge got to 1/4 full and  I knew that I had about 40km to go before empty.  So, the new pump was behaving like the old pump and the problem must not be the pump.

Fed up, I removed the relay, made up 4 short (4") leads with a spade on one end and a spade socket on the other end and connected the relay remotely.  This then allowed me to connect another wire to the earth lead for the relay and take it to earth via a waterproof switch.  If and when the fuel light starts flashing again, I will stop and switch on the switch to pump the contents of the sub-tank into the main tank.

On reflection, this has probably been my problem all along and there was probably nothing wrong with the original pump (I convinced myself after reading about all the others who had had this problem that the electrical connection in the main tank had become high resistance and melted the fitting).  

I have not heard of anyone else who has diagnosed this to be the problem.  I will post a photo of my fix later.

Edited June 2 by GeoffW