Toyota transmissions/driveshafts

[Alienlifeform]

Hey Dudes,

I'm wanting to brainstorm on a possible engine swap for my Starlet EP91, maybe an A block or even an S block motor........

Can anybody tell me what differences/similarities exist between the transmissions fitted to Starlets/Corollas/Camrys????????

I mean can a Starlet tranny bolt up to an A or S block?, (this would be the simplest, not changing my tranny at all) or could an S block mate to an A block tranny?

Any thoughts guys?

[Rolla Boy]

Anything's possible when you make a custom bellhousing...

It's also possible to modify one to fit, but for that it can't be too far off...

[D'Ice]

are u sure the starlet gearbox would be able to handle the power from like a 3SGE or sumthing???

[Alienlifeform]

are u sure the starlet gearbox would be able to handle the power from like a 3SGE or sumthing???

No I can't be sure about the strength of the standard Starlet tranny but just a thought on that..........

Is the tranny on the Starlet turbo stronger than the one in my 4efe????

Driving style has a LOT to do with munching transmissions................

Some guys abuse the machinery, I don't.

I used to have a Daihatsu Charade which I had dropped a highly modded turbo motor into, I was warned to also fit the stronger factory turbo Charade clutch and gearbox but my stock tranny was young and in perfect condition and I knew I would respect its limitations so I kept the tranny stock, no problems

[D'Ice]

one weak thing can drag your whole system down... eg: i plan on transplanting a 3SGTE in my car... now the tranny is an easy bolt-on... but it'll only last me 3weeks even when driving real easy... so it's up to you but i STRONGLY advise using the starlet turbo tranny n modifying it to keep it FWD and then getting the propper clutch n flywheel etc etc... n wat's the point of building a performance vehicle if u'r not gonna 'give it' every now n then....

2c

[Alienlifeform]

one weak thing can drag your whole system down... eg: i plan on transplanting a 3SGTE in my car... now the tranny is an easy bolt-on... but it'll only last me 3weeks even when driving real easy... so it's up to you but i STRONGLY advise using the starlet turbo tranny n modifying it to keep it FWD and then getting the propper clutch n flywheel etc etc... n wat's the point of building a performance vehicle if u'r not gonna 'give it' every now n then....

2c

I think you just told me the Starlet turbo tranny is stronger?, if so thanks.

Some folks just like drivin flat out all the time, draggin, street racin, burnouts to keep the crowds/passengers happy, That kinda drivin can destroy even a tough tranny in no time.

If ya think about it the stuff that breaks trannys is the stuff that the spectators enjoy...........

My turbo Charade was a sleeper, it looked just like the shopping trolley it was in the beginning and thats the way I wanted it, stealthy. In its time it made monkeys out of lots of quick machinery but they never saw it comin, stabbed in the back by a shopping trolley, I loved that

I didn't go cruisin lookin for victims every day, just gave it a squirt when I was in the mood, same as now.

My Charade tranny never gave trouble in 40 thousand kays, what killed the Charade was a traffic jam, hot day, cooling system fault, cooked the motor.

My Charade was a turbo, interesting setup but not ideal for a daily driver in my book so been there done that, now I wanna see what can be done with a big capacity N/A donk, if it can be done.........

[twum_au]

Hey Dudes,

I'm wanting to brainstorm on a possible engine swap for my Starlet EP91, maybe an A block or even an S block motor........

Can anybody tell me what differences/similarities exist between the transmissions fitted to Starlets/Corollas/Camrys????????

I mean can a Starlet tranny bolt up to an A or S block?, (this would be the simplest, not changing my tranny at all) or could an S block mate to an A block tranny?

Any thoughts guys?

Dunno if you have had any success yet eyeballing Toyota motors/transmissions??

In a perfect world you would be allowed to have an E,A and S series motor and their related 5 speed boxes sitting on the same bit of concrete for you to play with all day long, then you might figure this out quick.

But realistically no wrecker would sit still for this, they are there to make money not indulge our automotive fantasies so you gotta do it bit by bit the hard way.

I have a few scraps of info for you..........

I found two pics on Ebay one is a Camry 5 speed box off a 3s-fe

The other is a 5 speed from a 4a-fe ae82 Corolla

I also borrowed a workshop manual for a Camry SV21,22 (3s-fe) which has some useful info in it, I'll see if I can get some pics in it scanned if you like.

Observations regards the E,A and S series transmissions-

Going on pics alone I'd guess that there is a very good chance that the transmissions fitted to the Starlet and the A equipped Corollas are interchangeable, the only difference I can spot is that my Starlet tranny uses a pressed steel extension housing on the end of the tranny whereas the Corolla box in the photo has the more usual cast aluminium extension.

The twin cable gear selector mechanism looks to be shared by the E,A and S boxes.

The S series box uses a different mounting system to the others in that there is a bolt on subframe running under the motor/tranny and two transmission mounting points bolt to this subframe, one at the front and another at the back. There is a third tranny mounting point on the upper end of the tranny sorta above the extension housing. The motor has a single mounting in a similar position to the Starlet.

The starter on the S series is on the tranny rather than at the back of the engine block as per E and A series.

I don't have any motor measurements on the S block, its gotta be a fair bit bigger than the E block, I reckon at least 50mm longer but I notice the S block manages to run a single pulley to run aircon and alternator so that saves about 20mm over the twin pulley setup my Starlet uses, you gotta find at least another 30mm clearance by some other means. Body mods are gonna be a legal headache, altering chassis rails alters the cars crumple ability, the law won't like that.

On my Starlet there is spare space between the tranny and the Left chassis rail, you might consider moving the tranny closer to the left side bodywork, it means altering the tranny mounts but you are already looking at that I reckon. This may well introduce driveshaft issues but thats not the end of the world.

Whilst a 3s-ge Starlet might make for a very powerful ride I would be more than happy with a 3S-fe. I drove a new 3s-fe equiped Camry years ago and it was no slug, probably a bit quicker than my Starlet and the Camry is lugging around a lot more weight, look at it another way, how would a standard Starlet perform if you could lighten it by maybe 300 kilos?

[Hiro]

Some things I think that need to be cleared up:

The Starlet gearbox quite likely to be a C-series, most likely a C50 or C52. These boxes are also attached to Corollas, except the bellhousing is different and kinda not interchangeable without pulling the box apart. However, a Corolla C52 should fit into the same spot that a Starlet C52 does (mounts-wise), but would need to be attached to an A-series engine (eg 4AGE) as opposed to the E-series (eg 5EFE) in the Starlet. This has been done in Starlets before, and is by no way unheard of

The S-series on the other hand is a completely different matter. The 3S is a much bigger engine than a 4A, both capacity-wise and dimensions-wise. The gearbox is also different. Most S-series engines have an S-series gearbox attached to them, such as an S54. Starlets never had this box installed in them, thus it is highly unlikely that the mounts will line up, and things like starter-motor etc are very likely to be different to a C-series box.

[twum_au]

Hey Dudes,

I'm wanting to brainstorm on a possible engine swap for my Starlet EP91, maybe an A block or even an S block motor........

Can anybody tell me what differences/similarities exist between the transmissions fitted to Starlets/Corollas/Camrys????????

I mean can a Starlet tranny bolt up to an A or S block?, (this would be the simplest, not changing my tranny at all) or could an S block mate to an A block tranny?

Any thoughts guys?

Sorry forgot to attach the pics, DOH.......

[D'Ice]

The S-series on the other hand is a completely different matter. The 3S is a much bigger engine than a 4A, both capacity-wise and dimensions-wise. The gearbox is also different. Most S-series engines have an S-series gearbox attached to them, such as an S54. Starlets never had this box installed in them, thus it is highly unlikely that the mounts will line up, and things like starter-motor etc are very likely to be different to a C-series box.

an S motor is soo tight when installed in a corolla let alone a freakin starlet... S motors also had Eseries boxes such as the allmighty E154 (out of the MR2 and Gen3-4 Camry V6)

so i'd have to say that the best option would either be installing a 4A*(Z)E or just use the 5EFTE off the starlet turbo... oh n if u'r using the tranny off the starlet turbo u'll have to modify it from AWD to just FWD...

i heard that the head of a 4AGE is a direct bolt on to the bottom of a 7AFE (1.8L)... just an idea

Edited August 1, 2007 by d_ice

[twum_au]

Some things I think that need to be cleared up:

The Starlet gearbox quite likely to be a C-series, most likely a C50 or C52. These boxes are also attached to Corollas, except the bellhousing is different and kinda not interchangeable without pulling the box apart. However, a Corolla C52 should fit into the same spot that a Starlet C52 does (mounts-wise), but would need to be attached to an A-series engine (eg 4AGE) as opposed to the E-series (eg 5EFE) in the Starlet. This has been done in Starlets before, and is by no way unheard of

The S-series on the other hand is a completely different matter. The 3S is a much bigger engine than a 4A, both capacity-wise and dimensions-wise. The gearbox is also different. Most S-series engines have an S-series gearbox attached to them, such as an S54. Starlets never had this box installed in them, thus it is highly unlikely that the mounts will line up, and things like starter-motor etc are very likely to be different to a C-series box.

So you have heard of people who have actually stuck an A series into a front drive Starlet?

I don't suppose they wrote about the details?, got a link about this maybe?

I only ask because I searched this board for info on a "A into Starlet" swap and couldn't see anything useful (not counting the dude who did stuff with an old rear drive Starlet).

[twum_au]

Anything's possible when you make a custom bellhousing...

It's also possible to modify one to fit, but for that it can't be too far off...

Yeah true, customs bellhousings could make all sorts of things come together but if you gotta do a one off from scratch I reckon you would need a gold Visa card

[Hiro]

So you have heard of people who have actually stuck an A series into a front drive Starlet?

I have seen 20V EP82 and EP91s, yes.

[Alienlifeform]

Some things I think that need to be cleared up:

The Starlet gearbox quite likely to be a C-series, most likely a C50 or C52. These boxes are also attached to Corollas, except the bellhousing is different and kinda not interchangeable without pulling the box apart. However, a Corolla C52 should fit into the same spot that a Starlet C52 does (mounts-wise), but would need to be attached to an A-series engine (eg 4AGE) as opposed to the E-series (eg 5EFE) in the Starlet. This has been done in Starlets before, and is by no way unheard of

The S-series on the other hand is a completely different matter. The 3S is a much bigger engine than a 4A, both capacity-wise and dimensions-wise. The gearbox is also different. Most S-series engines have an S-series gearbox attached to them, such as an S54. Starlets never had this box installed in them, thus it is highly unlikely that the mounts will line up, and things like starter-motor etc are very likely to be different to a C-series box.

Cool info dude, thanks

OK now how the heck did you find out what model trannys get fitted to the different blocks?, C series, S series etc??????????

I don't suppose this tranny spec stuff is published on the internet anywhere?

[Hiro]

OK now how the heck did you find out what model trannys get fitted to the different blocks?, C series, S series etc??????????

I don't suppose this tranny spec stuff is published on the internet anywhere?

This is all assuming stock from factory, and manual too obviously

If it's an N/A FWD A-series engine, it will have a C-series gearbox

If it's a forced induction FWD A-series engine, it'll have an E-series gearbox

If it's a RWD A-series engine, it'll have a T-series gearbox

If it's an N/A S-series engine, it'll have an S-series gearbox (not sure about the 3SGE though)

If it's a RWD S-series engine, it'll have a J-series gearbox

If it's a F/I S-series engine, it'll have an E-series gearbox

If it's a T-series engine, it'll have a T-series gearbox

If it's an R-series engine, it'll have a W-series gearbox (or P51, if it's an 18RG)

If it's an N/A M-series engine, it'll have a W-series gearbox

If it's a F/I M-series engine, it'll probably have an R-series gearbox

If it's a JZ engine, it'll have a R-series or V-series gearbox

I think thats most of them, they may be individual models that have different boxes though, easiest way to find out is to look at the VIN plate on the firewall of the car/frontcut, it'll tell you both the engine code and the gearbox code

[D'Ice]

OK now how the heck did you find out what model trannys get fitted to the different blocks?, C series, S series etc??????????

I don't suppose this tranny spec stuff is published on the internet anywhere?

This is all assuming stock from factory, and manual too obviously

If it's an N/A FWD A-series engine, it will have a C-series gearbox

If it's a forced induction FWD A-series engine, it'll have an E-series gearbox

If it's a RWD A-series engine, it'll have a T-series gearbox

If it's an N/A S-series engine, it'll have an S-series gearbox (not sure about the 3SGE though)

If it's a RWD S-series engine, it'll have a J-series gearbox

If it's a F/I S-series engine, it'll have an E-series gearbox

If it's a T-series engine, it'll have a T-series gearbox

If it's an R-series engine, it'll have a W-series gearbox (or P51, if it's an 18RG)

If it's an N/A M-series engine, it'll have a W-series gearbox

If it's a F/I M-series engine, it'll probably have an R-series gearbox

If it's a JZ engine, it'll have a R-series or V-series gearbox

I think thats most of them, they may be individual models that have different boxes though, easiest way to find out is to look at the VIN plate on the firewall of the car/frontcut, it'll tell you both the engine code and the gearbox code

beautifully done... u rarely find a writeup about trannys... and yes the 3SGE does have an S-series box... VZ engines have both S and E series boxes

Edited August 3, 2007 by d_ice