ZR6 Tranmission Funnies

[Trufflepig]

Hi All

I am a bit concerned at the behaviour of my ZR6 transmission when cold.

Firstly, it shifts a bit harder when cold - is that normal? I expect so but am not certain.

Tha main issue is this - changing from 3rd to 4th when cold the transmission "misses", or hesitates to select 4th, resulting in a moment or two in between gears, ie in neutral. Once the gap was big enough for me to get two stabs on the accelerator before finding 4th. My wife - who is not car savvy shall we say - said "thats not good..."

This is a problem - has anyone else experienced this?

I am setting up my first visit back to the dealer this week (about 4k on the clock). Naturally I will ask them to look at it. Does anyone know if I should expect a fault code on the computer if they plug in the diagnostics? I have a feeling they will take it 'round the block and say "Nup, we couldnt find it" but if there's a code to read then no argument (hopefully).

Any advice welcomed,

Cheers

The Pig

[Buri_ZR6]

Hi All

I am a bit concerned at the behaviour of my ZR6 transmission when cold.

Firstly, it shifts a bit harder when cold - is that normal? I expect so but am not certain.

Tha main issue is this - changing from 3rd to 4th when cold the transmission "misses", or hesitates to select 4th, resulting in a moment or two in between gears, ie in neutral. Once the gap was big enough for me to get two stabs on the accelerator before finding 4th. My wife - who is not car savvy shall we say - said "thats not good..."

This is a problem - has anyone else experienced this?

I am setting up my first visit back to the dealer this week (about 4k on the clock). Naturally I will ask them to look at it. Does anyone know if I should expect a fault code on the computer if they plug in the diagnostics? I have a feeling they will take it 'round the block and say "Nup, we couldnt find it" but if there's a code to read then no argument (hopefully).

Any advice welcomed,

Cheers

The Pig

as for your transmissions safety. i do not recommend you to use sport mode very often before 10000kms. as for the hard shifting it will only force you to shift hard from just say p to r when the car is parked on a down angle road or parked on a steep hill with the hand brake not in use. when the car is not level on the road, parked, i recommend you to engage your hand brake to the max so that when you get ın the car agaın and u want to shift, you will shift smooth and then let go of the handbrake. that way it will not make u shift from p to r with big force. so when your parked on a level road just say at the shops or somethıng. you wouldnt need to use the hand brake and when you get ın the car agaın, you should be able to shift softly. if it still shifts hard on a level road, then you got a problem. Hope my advice helped. dont forget to not use sport when the car ıs cold.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Buri_ZR6

[ZZR88]

i have noticed in my ZR6 is that when the transmisson is cold it takes longer for it to shift to differnt gears.

for example when its in first and im driving the revs are like 2200 and changes to second after a delay of 5 or more seconds.

this is in D by the way

Edited August 29, 2007 by ZZR88

[ZZR88]

Hi All

I am a bit concerned at the behaviour of my ZR6 transmission when cold.

Firstly, it shifts a bit harder when cold - is that normal? I expect so but am not certain.

Tha main issue is this - changing from 3rd to 4th when cold the transmission "misses", or hesitates to select 4th, resulting in a moment or two in between gears, ie in neutral. Once the gap was big enough for me to get two stabs on the accelerator before finding 4th. My wife - who is not car savvy shall we say - said "thats not good..."

This is a problem - has anyone else experienced this?

I am setting up my first visit back to the dealer this week (about 4k on the clock). Naturally I will ask them to look at it. Does anyone know if I should expect a fault code on the computer if they plug in the diagnostics? I have a feeling they will take it 'round the block and say "Nup, we couldnt find it" but if there's a code to read then no argument (hopefully).

Any advice welcomed,

Cheers

The Pig

as for your transmissions safety. i do not recommend you to use sport mode very often before 10000kms. it will only force you to shift hard from just say p to r when the car is parked on a down angle road or parked on a steep hill with the hand brake not in use. when the car is not level on the road, parked, i recommend you to engage your hand brake to the max so that when you get ın the car agaın and u want to shift, you will shift smooth and then let go of the handbrake. that way it will not make u shift from p to r with big force.

yeah i have noticed how wen ur parked on a incline or declined road, it makes u shift hard..

thanks for the advice =)

[Adrian]

Same stuff has been happening to me for the last 8 months. I asked the service techo and he said it is a know "feature"

See thread, http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/inde...?showtopic=9848

I don't think that you will get it corrected, but good luck

Adrian

[Buri_ZR6]

i have noticed in my ZR6 is that when the transmisson is cold it takes longer for it to shift to differnt gears.

for example when its in first and im driving the revs are like 2200 and changes to second after a delay of 5 or more seconds.

this is in D by the way

that doesnt sound rıght. myne never did or does that.

[jonbays]

There is a different shift strategy for warm in in cold weather. i don't think this is a problem but some people in the USA reported shift flaring between gears when cold but they mean real cold over there of course.

[Trufflepig]

as for the hard shifting it will only force you to shift hard from just say p to r when the car is parked on a down angle road or parked on a steep hill with the hand brake not in use.

I think you missunderstand what Im saying - it seems to shift harder when driving in D - most likely due to the cold shift strategy ie holding a few more revs when cold. Odd really, I would think it would short shift when cold...

As for the flaring being a "feature", that is the sort of cr@p that some service people roll out to deflect car owners form the truth. Flaring 1000rpm between any gear in any driving mode is not a feature, its an error.

When I booked the car in I asked of they would expect to see an error code relating to this sort of behaviour or have to see the baviour. Initially they said they would have to see it, but I told them they would'nt as I'd already driven to the dealership and it would have warmed up and they wouldnt see it. They then admitted they would look for a fault code.

Features dont produce fault codes.

Its booked for tomorrow, I'll let you know how I go.

The Pig

Edited September 2, 2007 by Trufflepig

[Buri_ZR6]

as for the hard shifting it will only force you to shift hard from just say p to r when the car is parked on a down angle road or parked on a steep hill with the hand brake not in use.

I think you missunderstand what Im saying - it seems to shift harder when driving in D - most likely due to the cold shift strategy ie holding a few more revs when cold. Odd really, I would think it would short shift when cold...

As for the flaring being a "feature", that is the sort of cr@p that some service people roll out to deflect car owners form the truth. Flaring 1000rpm between any gear in any driving mode is not a feature, its an error.

When I booked the car in I asked of they would expect to see an error code relating to this sort of behaviour or have to see the baviour. Initially they said they would have to see it, but I told them they would'nt as I'd already driven to the dealership and it would have warmed up and they wouldnt see it. They then admitted they would look for a fault code.

Features dont produce fault codes.

Its booked for tomorrow, I'll let you know how I go.

The Pig

my bad i understood wrong. if its shifting hard up and down on D then most likely it is a fault. i hope it gets fixed.

[Soloman]

Its booked for tomorrow, I'll let you know how I go.

Any luck?

[Adrian]

Hi,

I have mine booked in for a 15K on Thursday. If they can fix yours, I'll be more annoying and keep asking to looking my transmission issues .....

Adrian

[Trufflepig]

Its booked for tomorrow, I'll let you know how I go.

Any luck?

No news yet - the tech went for a drive with me this morning when I dropped it off. Naturally we couldnt replicate the fault as it was already warm, so they decided to keep it overnight. Its cold tonight - I hope it plays up big time

He did mention however that Toyota reckon its part of the warm-up cycle and that it was common across the range. I pressed him on it as it sounded like rubbish to me...when I explained that it was sometimes a second at least (which at normal modest acceleration gives a significant and very unprofessional flare of about 1000 rpm) he said "No that sounds like a fault".

It didnt happen when I first got the car and it didnt happen when I had an SX6 for a couple of days on a test drive. I think I could mount an argument that its a safety issue - in traffic you need to be in gear, not poking around on the accelerator pedal wondering when it will engage 4th.

Anyway I'll keep you posted.

[dave262]

Its booked for tomorrow, I'll let you know how I go.

Any luck?

No news yet - the tech went for a drive with me this morning when I dropped it off. Naturally we couldnt replicate the fault as it was already warm, so they decided to keep it overnight. Its cold tonight - I hope it plays up big time

He did mention however that Toyota reckon its part of the warm-up cycle and that it was common across the range. I pressed him on it as it sounded like rubbish to me...when I explained that it was sometimes a second at least (which at normal modest acceleration gives a significant and very unprofessional flare of about 1000 rpm) he said "No that sounds like a fault".

It didnt happen when I first got the car and it didnt happen when I had an SX6 for a couple of days on a test drive. I think I could mount an argument that its a safety issue - in traffic you need to be in gear, not poking around on the accelerator pedal wondering when it will engage 4th.

Anyway I'll keep you posted.

Typically these sorts of issues are common across most auto transmissions when cold. As I'm sure a number of you understand, there are a number of friction plates within auto transmissions which rely on transmission fluid for lubrication, while also allowing the correct amount of friction. When cold, like any oil, the fluid is very thick and tends to allow the transmission to slip. Once the fluid warms up, it becomes thinner and the transmission should stop slipping. If the issue disappears once it warms up a little, that will be all it is. Of course there is always the possibility it is something more sinister like a blocked solenoid valve, but then again, it could also be something as simple as the transmission requiring a fluid change.

Typically what some manufacturers do is they disallow "smooth" shifting between gears while the car is cold to reduce wear, which will create some rather rough gear changes. At 10,000km, I would imagine it may just be something like a loose connector or some strange method of changing the ECU/TCU may have learned that will be causing the flaring between gears, but no harm in getting Toyota to take a look at it. I think with any new car it's a good idea to drive it hard, but not excessively hard for the first 10,000-15,000km to weed out any problems that may be present. Just be grateful this problem has surfaced now while it's still under warranty! :)

[Trufflepig]

Progress update on the transmission issue.

I left the car with them again last night and turned up this morning for another transmission-problem-demo-drive. This time I drove and the tech plugged in the computer to log the drive. He programmed a 5 minute recording session and off we went. As expected, the tranny flared about 500 rpm between 3rd and 4th. After the drive he downloaded the data and showed me the deal on the laptop.

Here it is:

A few explanations:

Green line: Throttle position

Blue line: RPM

Red line: Road speed

Black steppy line: Gear selected (was in D for this drive)

The first thing he noticed is that the data told us the car was in fourth gear when the flare occured. This wasnt my experience, but it was interesting in that the ECU had told the trans to change but it hadnt happened yet. The elapsed time between the black steppy line on the graph indicating 4th and the flare beginning is about .6 of a second. The whole thing was over in about a second and a bit, enough time for the rpm to spike as indicated. This was a mild skip - maybe due to the fact that the nights are a bit milder these days.

So far the data is being sent off to Toyota for their ruling on it...what can I expect from them? I cant see how they could argue this is normal cold engine regime, but hey, stranger things have happened....

Cheers

Pig

[Trufflepig]

Progress update on the transmission issue.

So far the data is being sent off to Toyota for their ruling on it...what can I expect from them? I cant see how they could argue this is normal cold engine regime, but hey, stranger things have happened....

Woohoo!!

After 9 months of ownership and constant reporting of the problem by me, out of the blue today the service manager rang and asked me when I would like to book it in to have the transmission replaced

I should add that at the 15k service recently I reported the usual rattles and squeaks, and when I picked it up they told me "Ok we had the dash out of your car and fitted a kit that fixes it all". I nearly fell over.

Well done to Peter Kittle Toyota, Salisbury, Adelaide

[Tmaster100]

Its good to hear that Peter Kittle Toyota are going that extra mile. Pity the other Toymotor dealers in Adelaide dont follow suit.

[riftime]

Glad to hear that they will fix the problem, bummer about having to wait 6 months until decision came through.

I'm now being driven nuts by my dash which seems to have more rattles now than 1-2 months ago.

Does anyone have any experience with Toyota Essendon or Melbourne City Toyota? I'm thinking of taking my presara there from now on as the place from where I bought it is too far out of the way.

Thanks.

[dave262]

Does anybody notice a fairly extensive delay in shifting from 1st to 2nd most the time? Whenever I accelerate in mine it seems to be fairly harsh on that change, but then every other gear is smooth as silk. Even under hard accelerating it does it, but it is much more violent and usually means that it takes quite some time to get going, as it takes about 2s to change gears between 1st and 2nd. All other gears change almost instantly.

I hope it is not something that will require a new transmission, as it sounds to me like a shift pattern thing.

[Trufflepig]

Well, the tranny has now been replaced and the thing is great...no flaring at all.

Again, thanks to Peter Kittle Toyota for sticking with this throughout.

[Adrian]

That's fantastic to hear !!!

I have reported mine (same problem) a few time in the last year to the Toyota dealer who has won dealership of the year, the last 4 years running and I still havn't heard back (hows that happen).

Looks like I just need to keep trying................

[Trufflepig]

That's fantastic to hear !!!

I have reported mine (same problem) a few time in the last year to the Toyota dealer who has won dealership of the year, the last 4 years running and I still havn't heard back (hows that happen).

Looks like I just need to keep trying................

Yeah keep trying.

Its seems this issue is being dealt with quite separately from the dealerships. Until a week or so before the changover, the dealership was trying to convince me it was ok. After months of reporting it as an issue, the first positive thing I heard was a phone call saying theres a trannny here for you, when would you like to book it in?

It may be that Toyota are slowly moving through the fault logs from dealerships and addressing them all - lets hope that's the case.

[julian040859]

I experienced Transmission Flaring a few days ago. I discussed it with the dealership and they asked had we just changed drivers. The answer was Yes, my wife drives like a snail and was at the wheel for two hours, when I got in the seat it flared straight away several times. I drive a bit harder than her! It eventually stopped. The dealership reckons the transmission has a memory and got used to my wife's driving style, when I got in and gave it the boot it didn't quite know what to do until I retrained it after several minutes of my driving style. The flaring has not happened for 4 days so maybe there is some proof that the dealership was right. Any comments?

[dannywss]

...The dealership reckons the transmission has a memory and got used to my wife's driving style, when I got in and gave it the boot it didn't quite know what to do until I retrained it after several minutes of my driving style...

yes this is correct. So, everytime after your wife drives it, it need some time for you to rev it back to suit you more. I found this when i mod my air intake and weird significant changes in the engine during that week.

[AcoustiK]

Glad to hear that they will fix the problem, bummer about having to wait 6 months until decision came through.

I'm now being driven nuts by my dash which seems to have more rattles now than 1-2 months ago.

Does anyone have any experience with Toyota Essendon or Melbourne City Toyota? I'm thinking of taking my presara there from now on as the place from where I bought it is too far out of the way.

Thanks.

I give thumbs up to Melbourne City Toyota, I take it there coz i work in the city :).

[Danos]

I had a strange thing happen to me just the other day. I leave home at 6:05am drive down my street (600m) and onto the highway. Usually I drive fairly easily until the car warms up. When I get to the end of my street the car is in 6th gear (selector in D) and I have a merge lane onto the highway. As I got to the merge lane I needed to boot it to get into some heavy oncoming traffic. Trouble was the transmission didn't downshift at all and while my foot was almost to the floor the car was still in 6th and not accelerating fast at all. I have to put it into S to get it to 4th and downshift myself.

Having said that it's the 1st and only time it's happened and now I'm conscious of it, it has not happened again.

Anyone experienced this ?