92 Celica Timing Problem

[Who42]

I have 1992 Celica Convertible NZ Import 3SGE type 2lt motor!! Which I got from a freind that after some guy changed the head gasket the engine won't start it seems to be a timing problem with the cams or ignition !! Have a close look a pics of cam possisions I think they to far advanced even though they seem to line up to timing marks!!

When trying to start the engine it back fires through the inlet manifold??

History of this problem!!

After 2 years 4 mechanics a lot of money and lost parts I ended up with the car!!

The coolant leak which started this hole mess turned out to be the radiator cap???

After the first mechanic had the head refurbished there was nothing wrong with it or head gasket !!!

He was the first to put the engine back together but could not get it to run ???

Things that were wrong when I got the car which I have fixed so far !!!

1 Missing parts replaced with right ones.

2 Vacuum lines put the right places and replaced missing ones.

3 Its now sparking on all cylinders only 2 when I got it after replacing the rotor button with correct one and did the correct timing and timing order 1342.

4 Checked the cam timing marks they seem to line up with TDC but the cam still doesn't look right to me this is the way I found them.

But it still won't run??

Any ideas please HELP

Please read text

CELICA.txt

Edited June 13, 2014 by Who42

[trentmeyer23]

If you throw the cam gears on, you should be able to see the vertical line on the timing cover backing plate through the small hole drilled into the gear itself at TDC.

It definitely sounds like a timing issue, however hard to say if it is a mechanical or triggering issue. I have seen cam and crank triggers mixed up previously causing a similar fault to what you are describing(backfire into intake).

I have a heap of information at home on the 3S-GE, however the earliest I can get to that is Tuesday next week.

[Who42]

Hi thanks for the reply.

Yes the cam gears line up with the vertical timing lines at when the crank is at TDC at 135degs past TDC of the cam its just starting to open the exhaust valve??? It shuoud start opening the exhaust valve at around 155 to 160degs past TDC of the cam ???

But the cam still looks to far advanced see photo's.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Who42

[trentmeyer23]

If you were to swap the camshafts, would the positioning then be correct? I have a weird feeling they may have been re-installed incorrectly.

[Who42]

If you swapped the cams they would be even more out of wake !! the inlet cam is 180degs from exhaust.

But I wonder if some one swapped the the pins in the cam???

See photo's

[trentmeyer23]

Is there anything stamped on the camshafts? Numbers, lettering, etc.?

[Who42]

The guy that refurbished the head engraved I and E , INLET and Exhaust but he did no take the head off he was the seconed involved out of 4 other Mechanics that tried to get the car going???

[trentmeyer23]

Ok, I also have a spare 3S-GE head sitting at home that I will be using for a project, so I can have a look at the camshafts in that when I get back.

[Who42]

Hi This is list of original parts that went missing over time with the 4 different mechanics??

and the parts replaced!!

MISSING REPLACED

1 Distributer. We now have 2 3S-GE type with slightly different part No.

2 Inlet Manifold. Replaced.

3 Battery. Replaced.

4 ECU. We now have 2 3S-GE Types one for Automatic and 1 Manual one which is the right one.

5 Some of the Vacuum Hoses Replaced and correctly placed.

6 Exhaust Pip cover. Have not got one yet.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Who42

[trentmeyer23]

The distributor with the different part number is the only thing that concerns me. If the wiring is different in any way it will cause error, i.e. firing at the incorrect time. The distributor acts as the camshaft and crankshaft position sensor(unless a crankshaft position sensor is fitted as well).

[Who42]

How is the wiring different ??

[trentmeyer23]

I didn't say that it was. I said that if it is, it will cause error. Did the new distributors plug straight in? Do you have any photos of the wiring coming from it?

Have you also tried checking that the spark is firing at the correct time for each cylinder? You can do this by placing masking tape on the cam gear where that cylinder should be firing, and using a timing light on each respective spark lead.

[Who42]

Hi See photo's Plugs on the distributors are the same !!!

We have checked the spark timing and firing order!!

It may look as though the Distributors are the wrong ones So they are now FOR SALE ALSO THE AUTO ECU is FOR SALE!!!

The part No's below!!! The car is a Manual

ALL DENZO

Distributor with rotor button Part No 19100-88363

229100-6911

3S-GE

Distributor without rotor No 19100-88363

229100-6912

3S-GE

ECU for Manual No 89661-2B220

17500-3501 12V

3S-G M/T

ECU for AUTO No 89661-20702

175700-2822 12V

3S-G A241E

Edited June 16, 2014 by Who42

[Who42]

Wiring order and wire colours from wiring harness for this car Celica 92 convertible NZ import 3S-GE 2lt motor !!

Can any one tell what each wire dose and can you swap them around to suit this car with the Distributors that I already have ???

Edited June 17, 2014 by Who42

[trentmeyer23]

What is the exact model of the car? It will most likely be ST18x something.

[Who42]

Model of the care- ST183g-BKMVF

Engine 3S-GE 1998cc

Frame ST183-0048956

[trentmeyer23]

Ok, the distributor is the correct part number. Have you double checked the spark plug leads?

[Who42]

Spark leads are fine !!

When you start to crank over the engine spark starts about TDC but when it starts to fire the spark seems to jump 40 degs forward advance then back fires through the inlet ??? and won't start ???

[trentmeyer23]

Here is a rough diagram of the wiring. It is the same part number used in the 3S-GTE.

[Who42]

This distributor Part No 191018836y from a MR2 is supposed to work do you know what the difference is between the 2 I have thanks Mark

[trentmeyer23]

No sorry. I can't find any information on that part number(19101-8836Y).