tsb0094_09 TSB0094_09 - Engine Knock on Startup - 2GR-FE

[GeneralYuehFei]

2008 Kluger GSU40R Engine 2GR-FE

Vehicle purchased with 120,000kms. It was only 2yrs old with predominantly freeway driving - so very easy life. Since the, I've touched on 10,000km per year. Problem I think is because the car is hardly used and just takes me to the train station and back on most days. So plenty of cold starts and limited travel. Transports the whole family wherever on weekends.

Serviced every 7.5k since then.

1) Before replacing oil I use Wynns Engine Flush

2) I replace with Gulf Western 10W-30 semi synthetic oil and genuine filter.

3) Then add Wynns Engine Tune Up and Oil Stabiliser.

Recently, experiencing an engine knock intermittently at startup. Does not happen immediately after on second startup. So once in a blue moon. Sounds exactly like this youtube video (not mine). Research has led me to the TSB0094_09 for which my VIN falls within the given affected vehicles. Will validate the TSB is the fault when i take it to Toyota to check if the computer throws out the given codes.  Very expensive fix unless anyone can advise alternatives.

More so, I've just purchased a 2012 Lexus IS350 with the 2GR-FSE motor. VIN not listed on this TSB so phew for that!  

However can anyone suggest where I may have gone wrong in my servicing regime above OR was this just an inevitable consequence of bad design flaw affecting just some motors?  

 

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by GeneralYuehFei

[trentmeyer23]

Google 2GR VVTi rattle. Very common in the Aurion and Kluger. Very expensive to fix as well.

[campbeam]

I did a quick Google search to refresh my memory of this VVTi rattle issue. One URL suggested using a higher viscosity oil e.g. 10W-40

I have a squeaking noise while my Dec 2008 Aurion is idling and it also throws a Check Engine Light which I will further investigate probably during the Easter break. Hoping that the resultant codes do not relate to the VVTi. 

Toyota Squeaking noise from engine compartment.doc

[GeneralYuehFei]

1 hour ago, campbeam said:

I did a quick Google search to refresh my memory of this VVTi rattle issue. One URL suggested using a higher viscosity oil e.g. 10W-40

I have a squeaking noise while my Dec 2008 Aurion is idling and it also throws a Check Engine Light which I will further investigate probably during the Easter break. Hoping that the resultant codes do not relate to the VVTi. 

Toyota Squeaking noise from engine compartment.doc

Even higher at 15W for cold starts. Yes higher viscosity oil will reduce the amount of leakage and hence not dry out the cam area as it sits in the garage.

So feasible that this would potentially resolve it and increase oil pressure in the engine during operation, however for how long and what other issue does that bring down the track. 

One side of me says do that and maybe get another 50k before and while saving for a overhaul/replacement. The other side says fix now and forever hold your peace.

Yes mine through out the engine light once a year ago and then never again. The codes related to this are in the TSB. 

Is there a phone app / dongle that allows me to access the codes or do I need to take it to Toyota?

[trentmeyer23]

Toyota should be fully aware of this issue. It is a controller and intake cam related issue.

[campbeam]

7 minutes ago, GeneralYuehFei said:

Is there a phone app / dongle that allows me to access the codes

I have purchased an OBD2 scanner on eBay but have yet to use it. There should be a connection underneath the dash which I will have to locate. SuperCheap offer service to read the codes costs about $17.95 . Code scan by Toyota Dealer should produce most accurate results.

I have used 15W-40 mineral oil in my 2006 Aurion for about 12 months [15,000 kms] but that engine had lots of engine sludge and I was doing very frequent oil and filter changes. I don't know about increased oil pressure in the engine but I did have to replace the rear VVTi oil line last October when the rubber hose section developed a pin hole size leak. Most of my driving is short distance and low revs so I think that it was just deterioration with age. Toyota GR series engines.docx

[GeneralYuehFei]

On 4/12/2017 at 5:41 PM, campbeam said:

I have purchased an OBD2 scanner on eBay but have yet to use it. There should be a connection underneath the dash which I will have to locate. SuperCheap offer service to read the codes costs about $17.95 . Code scan by Toyota Dealer should produce most accurate results.

I have used 15W-40 mineral oil in my 2006 Aurion for about 12 months [15,000 kms] but that engine had lots of engine sludge and I was doing very frequent oil and filter changes. I don't know about increased oil pressure in the engine but I did have to replace the rear VVTi oil line last October when the rubber hose section developed a pin hole size leak. Most of my driving is short distance and low revs so I think that it was just deterioration with age. Toyota GR series engines.docx

Thanks.

Great document and read so thanks. RE: Oil cooler hose leaks (until 2012, part 15767-31010). Few years back I was lucky to catch the oil cooler hose busting in my own driveway. Straight up on jack until i replaced Oil Cooler Hose 15767-31010 with 15767-31020 (all Metal Assembly). So engine has always bathed in oil.

Cheers

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by GeneralYuehFei
Update

[GeneralYuehFei]

On 4/12/2017 at 5:25 PM, trentmeyer23 said:

Toyota should be fully aware of this issue. It is a controller and intake cam related issue.

I called Toyota and they quoted ~$2,500. I expected worse.

I intend to perhaps have an Independent do the work as I have never been happy with dealer repairs / servicing (just my personal opinion). 

Edited April 13, 2017 by GeneralYuehFei
Update

[campbeam]

2GR-FE engine is well known for engine sludge so needs to properly serviced with regular oil changes and quality oil.

Remember to check/clean/replace the PCV valve.

Because I have purchased my Aurions used with the known problem of white smoke on start up [build up of sludge in the valve gear and covers resulting in oil being sucked up via the PCV valve into the intake] I also remove and clean the camshaft sensors and VVTi oil control valves on the valve covers.

  Positive Crankcase Understanding.doc

Don't forget about servicing your "sealed for life" automatic transmission. After 160,000 km, I have replaced the transmission filter and ATF.  U660E Info 2010_8_36.pdf 

U660E AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID ADJUSTMENT.doc

[GeneralYuehFei]

On 4/13/2017 at 0:43 AM, campbeam said:

2GR-FE engine is well known for engine sludge so needs to properly serviced with regular oil changes and quality oil.

Remember to check/clean/replace the PCV valve.

Thanks. Never have had oil burning issues OR rough idle. Something I have never done and @ 175k will replace asap because its good practice.  Just checked the operation of it, @ idle it suck nicely and there is definitive movement of the spring inside which is great. Minimal oil on the initial inspection which is good. Phew Lucky!  Will buy a replacement next time Im at Toyota.

On 4/13/2017 at 0:43 AM, campbeam said:

Because I have purchased my Aurions used with the known problem of white smoke on start up [build up of sludge in the valve gear and covers resulting in oil being sucked up via the PCV valve into the intake] I also remove and clean the camshaft sensors and VVTi oil control valves on the valve covers.

  Positive Crankcase Understanding.doc

Thanks again. I ordered a HD inspection borescope camera to maybe look inside the cover for sludge. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if it is there... What can I do if it is?  "remove and clean the camshaft sensors and VVTi oil control valves on the valve covers"

On 4/13/2017 at 0:43 AM, campbeam said:

Don't forget about servicing your "sealed for life" automatic transmission. After 160,000 km, I have replaced the transmission filter and ATF.  U660E Info 2010_8_36.pdf 

U660E AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID ADJUSTMENT.doc

I've done this religiously on the Kluger since buying the car and every 30k.  A lot of oil!  

That guide answered the question for me about the Lexus IS350 which has no dipstick for the ATF (which the Kluger does).  So thanks for that too as I was scratching my head on that one in lieu of it arriving next week.

Edited April 13, 2017 by GeneralYuehFei

[GeneralYuehFei]

On 4/12/2017 at 5:41 PM, campbeam said:

I have purchased an OBD2 scanner on eBay but have yet to use it. There should be a connection underneath the dash which I will have to locate. SuperCheap offer service to read the codes costs about $17.95 . Code scan by Toyota Dealer should produce most accurate results.

I ordered a cheap eBay dongle KW903 just to dabble. If I get a good grasp of this then I will seriously consider the Bluedriber obd2 reader @ USD$99.  Good reviews for this one. 

[GeneralYuehFei]

RE: Oil, I'm converting to Full Synthetic. I ended up getting Penrite HPR10 (10W-50) Full Synthetic for the Kluger.  Running a Engine Flush now and will change from Semi Synthetic to Full Synthetic. Oil filter too. 

One thing I've never been able to achieve is changing the small o-ring on the oil filter case. The large one always of course. It's impossible to undo so I suppose it remains sealed... no oil leaks thats for sure. Any tips?

HPR5 (5W-40) for the Lexus when it comes.

[campbeam]

13 hours ago, GeneralYuehFei said:

One thing I've never been able to achieve is changing the small o-ring on the oil filter case.

Same for me; unable to undo the nut on the oil cartridge housing and replace the small o-ring. Tried hard one time and ended up with gouge marks on the housing so gave up before having a broken housing. Probably could try using a breaker bar and giving it a hard tap which will most likely just loosen the housing.

[trentmeyer23]

A filter strap around the housing to hold it while undoing the drain plug worked for me.

It's tricky but it can be done.

[campbeam]

10 hours ago, trentmeyer23 said:

A filter strap around the housing to hold it while undoing the drain plug worked for me.

Yes, it also worked for me. I removed the housing then used the filter strap to hold it on the ground with my foot while using the 3/8 rachet and a breaker bar for extra leverage to undo the bolt. 

In hindsight, this is only worth doing if there is an oil leak and the small o-ring has to be replaced.

[GeneralYuehFei]

On 4/14/2017 at 9:24 AM, GeneralYuehFei said:

RE: Oil, I'm converting to Full Synthetic. I ended up getting Penrite HPR10 (10W-50) Full Synthetic for the Kluger.  Running a Engine Flush now and will change from Semi Synthetic to Full Synthetic. Oil filter too. 

Latest update is Penrite 10W-50 continued to have the issue. Changed to Penrite 15W-40 Semi Synthetic and so far so good the past 5 days.

Three options as I see it in the medium to long term

Option 1) Repair with Toyota as per TSB.  Next week Toyota will check out the car and quote cost officially (expected to be $2.5-4.5k)

Option 2) Spoke to a wrecker who can install a motor from a 2013 model for $4.5k inc labour

Option 3) Do nothing, leave as is with higher viscosity oil until engine either continues to do its duty OR craps itself.  If latter goto to Option 2

My father in law (ex.mechanic) suspects the continual practice of treating with Wynns Engine Flush every oil change @ 7.5k has contributed to the issue. Rather just do it every 25k. 

 

[trentmeyer23]

It will likely come and go with servicing for a short period. There have been mixed results with changing the oil viscosity.