ZRE152 Manual Shift - Mech links or 'by wire' ?

[SteveAndBelle]

Hi.

Just about to buy a brand new ZRE152 Levin ZR but can't seem to get a definite answer to if its manual transmission uses direct mechanical links or if it's all done by electrically by wire.

Not a big issue, I just prefer a 'real' manual car that I know I'm in full control of vs the other modern type that don't seem to have direct mechanical linkages anymore. Plenty of arguments for & against I know but for my $30k I'd prefer the oldskool methods ;)

Does anyone out there in ZRE land know for sure ?

[Guest]

have a look under the hood for linkages from the shifter to the gearbox...

[SteveAndBelle]

have a look under the hood for linkages from the shifter to the gearbox...

Hmmm, problem is that I don't have the car yet ... and when I place the order tomorrow I've then got an 8+ week wait for it to come from Japan :(

There's apparently only a handful of Levin ZRs in Australia at the moment and most of them seem to be Automatics. My work has a mini-fleet of ZRE152s but again they're all automatic too so I've never actually driven or even seen a manual ! Test driving a manual Ascent tomorrow morning is the final decider before I place my order for the Levin so I could possibly have a closer look then I suppose.

No-one else know ?

[Hiro]

Hi.

Just about to buy a brand new ZRE152 Levin ZR but can't seem to get a definite answer to if its manual transmission uses direct mechanical links or if it's all done by electrically by wire.

Not a big issue, I just prefer a 'real' manual car that I know I'm in full control of vs the other modern type that don't seem to have direct mechanical linkages anymore. Plenty of arguments for & against I know but for my $30k I'd prefer the oldskool methods ;)

Does anyone out there in ZRE land know for sure ?

99% of FWD cars don't use linkages (except on the shifter and transmission themsevles), they use push-pull cables (called Bowden cables, like the throttle cable or the ones you use to change gear and brake on your push-bike). You're probably getting confused and thinking that the cable-shift is electric - the only Toyota I can think of that uses any sort of "electric" control over the manual gearbox is the sequential clutchless manual in the MR2 Spyder, which was still a plain manual gearbox just with electric motors controlling the action of the cables/linkages/clutch.

[SteveAndBelle]

99% of FWD cars don't use linkages, they use push-pull cables (called Bowden cables, like the ones you use to change gear and brake on your push-bike). You're probably getting confused and thinking that the cable-shift is electric - the only Toyota I can think of that uses any sort of "electric" control over the manual gearbox is the sequential clutchless manual in the MR2 Spyder, which was still a plain manual gearbox just with electric motors controlling the action of the cables/linkages/clutch.

Thanks Hiro. Sounds about right then. I was thinking more along the lines of 'gears by wire' where the gear knob & clutch pedal were just 'remote controls' for an electronically controlled gearbox & clutch. I can see why a few manufacturers are going that way as I assume it allows the automatic traction & stability controls to take over whenever needed but I still prefer to know that when I push & pull the gear knob around that it's actually connected to the gearbox by physical links so I'm in as much control as possible.

The only reason I ask is because when I saw the buttress arch console it got me thinking. I was wondering how they could get all the mechanical links squished in underneath the gearknob while allowing it to 'float' in the arch without anything underneath it. I instantly though it was electronically operated but just needed confirmation.

I think you've answered my question ... kinda ;)

[Guest]

99% of FWD cars don't use linkages (except on the shifter and transmission themsevles), they use push-pull cables (called Bowden cables, like the throttle cable or the ones you use to change gear and brake on your push-bike). You're probably getting confused and thinking that the cable-shift is electric - the only Toyota I can think of that uses any sort of "electric" control over the manual gearbox is the sequential clutchless manual in the MR2 Spyder, which was still a plain manual gearbox just with electric motors controlling the action of the cables/linkages/clutch.

linkage, shifter cable... same thing :P

This image should make it clear how it all works;

[SteveAndBelle]

This image should make it clear how it all works;

If a picture's worth a thousand words that's about 999 words more than I needed to know ;)

Excellent work Mick, thanks heaps. Answers the question perfectly.

[Hiro]

Thanks Hiro. Sounds about right then. I was thinking more along the lines of 'gears by wire' where the gear knob & clutch pedal were just 'remote controls' for an electronically controlled gearbox & clutch. I can see why a few manufacturers are going that way as I assume it allows the automatic traction & stability controls to take over whenever needed but I still prefer to know that when I push & pull the gear knob around that it's actually connected to the gearbox by physical links so I'm in as much control as possible.

Traction/stability control programs often activate through either the existant ABS system (which is brakes anyway) or via engine management (ignition retard, fuel cut etc), neither of which affect the operation of the gearbox. Clutch pedals are and will most likely forever be completely manual while they still exist (either cable or hydraulic), what is actually happening is the traditional manual transmission is being replaced by either sequential semi-automatics (which don't use a H-pattern, shifter linkages/cables or a clutch pedal and essentially are manualised autos), dual-clutch gearboxes (DSG in Audi/VW terminology) which run clutch pedal-less setups and sequential shifters on a manual-style gearbox, or continuously variable transmissions (CVTs) which are an evolution of the automatic gearbox and don't have a clutch pedal (and will offer an infinitely-variable drive gear and a "stepped" 5/6/7-speed over-ride which is basically just fixing the CVT into particular ratio combinations).

In short, the easiest way to tell if you have a real manual gearbox with a physical link to the gearbox (Bowden-cables for FWD or mid/rear-mounted gearboxes), direct- or remote-linkage for front-mounted RWD) is to look for two things;

1) A clutch pedal

2) A H- shift pattern

Edited June 25, 2010 by Hiro

[SteveAndBelle]

Traction/stability control programs often activate through either the existant ABS system (which is brakes anyway) or via engine management (ignition retard, fuel cut etc), neither of which affect the operation of the gearbox. Clutch pedals are and will most likely forever be completely manual while they still exist (either cable or hydraulic), what is actually happening is the traditional manual transmission is being replaced by either sequential semi-automatics (which don't use a H-pattern, shifter linkages/cables or a clutch pedal and essentially are manualised autos), dual-clutch gearboxes (DSG in Audi/VW terminology) which run clutch pedal-less setups and sequential shifters on a manual-style gearbox, or continuously variable transmissions (CVTs) which are an evolution of the automatic gearbox and don't have a clutch pedal (and will offer an infinitely-variable drive gear and a "stepped" 5/6/7-speed over-ride which is basically just fixing the CVT into particular ratio combinations).

In short, the easiest way to tell if you have a real manual gearbox with a physical link to the gearbox (Bowden-cables for FWD or mid/rear-mounted gearboxes), direct- or remote-linkage for front-mounted RWD) is to look for two things;

1) A clutch pedal

2) A H- shift pattern

You da man Hiro. You certainly know your stuff ! Thanks for adding this to the thread. Much appreciated.

Shame that the good ol' manual will probably be a thing of the past in 10-15 years tho :( Oh well, I think my next city car will be pure electric anyway so no need for gears at all :)

Thanks.

[SteveAndBelle]

Took a manual for a test drive yesterday and noticed that the 'bridge' doesn't actually go under the gear knob afterall. It's obvious now that there's plenty of room for loads of mechanicals under the gearknob so I probably should've looked before I leapt ;)

Signed up for a Levin ZR so all I've gotta do now is wait 3 MONTHS :( No manuals with MoonRoofs in Graphite in Australia so I've had to order one to be built. Oh well, at least it'll be fresh off the production line :)