Engine REBUILD!!!

[jimmywasaracecardriver]

Last week i was driving my car and a extreme loss of power occured in high revs in 3rd gear. Following this abnormality extreme engine shaking made the whole car shake. I could feel it through the steering wheel, pedals, and seat. It appeared i was only running on 3 cylinders!!!! When i towed my car in today my fears where confirmed by toyota. I have a bent cylinder in my third piston and they will need my car for over a week as they have to pull apart the whole engine to look for other possible faults...

My car is a 2004 sportivo that i purchased in january and it has done 25000 km.

[BlackRolla]

Sorry to hear that dude. :(

I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happen with my Stivo. I find that the whole car is fragile with all the rattles and vibrations and that. My engine doesn;t sound too healthy either. I find that when it idles the whole car shivers and vibrates. Does anyone have that problem?

[qkslvr]

yeah. i get that too! when the engine is cold it's quiet and fine but once it's warmed up, the engine vibrates a little more and i can hear mechanical sounds (ticking-like sound) from the engine alot more

[kcorro]

that is bad. hope it is a speedy and hassle free fix for you.

[Danthuyer]

OUCH jimbo :(

sorry to hear that.........major pain Ill call you when i get back in aus

[richi]

sorry to hear that jimmy, hope u get it sorted out, keep us informed. atleast u get a new fresh engine.

it ticks like the wheel of fortune =)

[Blade Hunter]

yeah. i get that too! when the engine is cold it's quiet and fine but once it's warmed up, the engine vibrates a little more and i can hear mechanical sounds (ticking-like sound) from the engine alot more

I thought the ticking sound was normal, mine has always done it, I thought it was becuase it uses a timing gear rather than a belt.

I could be wrong, I know its hard to believe but it does happen sometimes ;)

[qkslvr]

i think the ticking is normal too. but when the engine is warm it gets louder and the idle is not as smooth.

[ZEEROLLA]

Sorry to hear that, engine troubles are the worse to bear and i have been through that with the rex. Took nearly 3 months to get the fixed under warranty and back on road but i also had the gearbox rebuilt. Maybe you can take this opportunity to get some of the car's other stuff sorted out. Just push the dealer to get it fixed ASAP otherwise they will be taking forever.

I also have a 04' complianced Stivo and has covered 10,000kms in 6 months. How often is your maintenance? Are you the 2nd person to damage the 2ZZGE? Who was the first, maybe he had the same problem. Anyway that is why i never buy 2nd hand hi-performance cars especially high revving engines. Hope you get it sorted out soon mate. Ask the dealer what caused the problem.

Zee

[Screaminrolla]

sorry to hear bout this dude. I have heard of quite a few doing the same thing, all with about 20000ks on them, its usually soething to do with the oil pump falling to bits.

[jimmywasaracecardriver]

I already had it booked in on wednesday for them to look at an engine knocking i was having which got loader when the car was warmer and when strain was put on the engine (e.g. air con, turnning steering wheel). The said they have also found a rattle in my dash and need to reconstruct the whole thing!!!

I dont understand how one car can have so much wrong.

[influx]

the ticking sound is one of the vavles ususlly connected to the air box it flicks between hot air and cold air to keep the engine warm. i can't remember exactly but it is like an old thermo stat to get you engine warm.

if it is abnormally long periods of time or continually i would take the car to toyota.

[Hames]

Do they know what caused it??

Warrenty????

Im really starting to think the sportivo aint all its mean to be aye!!!

Also saw a Sportivo on Ebay that had a new engine after the old one blew up 2

Edited September 21, 2005 by Hames

[peekay]

A lot of depends on how you drive it if it is constantly in lift or you mis shift it can can cause issues. Misshifting is a known issue in the states on Celica motors and can cause oil pump failures, also the valves are also a weakness the motor does not like being constantly above 7000 rpm (this is why for race spec engines the valves are always replaced). Toyota did not design this motor to be above 7000 rpm all the time. I was checking the web yesteday to see if anyone has a better oil pump but no luck yet.

By the way this is not directed at anyone just for information purposes and just to be cautious.

[dakota]

I'm wondering if the IZZ-fe oil pump is the same as the 2ZZ-fe one. The problem seems to be the pump housing cracking (i'm guessing due to way excess oil pressure at very high rpm) and a resultant dramatic loss of oil pressure.

There's an old link somewhere on this MB on the IZZ-fe by the development engineers ....the clear message is that the motor is primarily designed for ease and cheapness of construction and assembly, and maximum fuel economy due to minimal internal friction, a good example of this is the extra narrow main and big end bearings...brilliant for low friction, not so good for long term durability i'm guessing.

If the 2ZZ-fe has inherited much, especially bottom end stuff, from the 1ZZ-fe surely there's gonna be durability issues when it's pushin out +40% extra power and 30% more revs....???

[Ilivfor6]

Unfortunatly, if you talk with people in the know when it comes to performance engines, Toyota may have cut a couple of costs with this engine.

I remember reading a translated article a couple of years back of an interview with a couple of Honda engineers responsible for the Type-R development work.

They were specifically asked about the 2zzg as it had just won an international engine award. Their thoughts were interesting.

Overall they believed it to be a very good engine design that had true potential for greatness but was being held back by decisions to cut the costs of production. Some parts are working at close to 100% of capacity and don't have the available reserves to accomodate too much more load or many fluctuations. The oil pump was one part they did make mention of, believing the engine should be utilising a much larger/stronger pump as the 2zzg requires more from the oil pump than your typical engine.

The valves were also highlighted as a part suitable for road use but not much more than that. But again it was their thought that this was to meet pricing targets and to fit in with the production equipment already in place. Apparently although it is a massive price hike to use a stronger material for the valves etc compared to what is currently used the cost to put into place the equipment to produce those parts is staggering and would involve a higher proportion of manual labour.

If I remember right their estimate was in the ballpark of $1200-$1400 US dollars per engine to manufacture for peak tolerances.

There recomendation was for new valves with upgraded oil pump. With this higher compression pistons/rings etc could be safely utilised for better lower end torque and higher end power. Although producing more power the engine would be operating with a greater margin of safety so as to allow it to handle the fluctuations caused by driver errors and unforseen circumstances more easily.

It is this mentality that I do like about Honda. That is why my brother can belt the crap out of his Type-R and it just keeps on screaming back at him "is that all you got... Go me harder I dare you", but I guess you do pay for that privealage.

Oh.... and I believe TRD now do a package that very closely matches what their recomendations were. Apparently gives approx 20-25kw at the flywheel and around 215nm of torque at 6400rpm. But I believe if you need to ask the price then you probably can't afford it! Ouch :(

Damn though... That would be fun, especially combined with the Lightened Flywheel & Clutch, CAI, Extractors and a Unichip.

Maybe I should look at increasing the morgage again... Now how do I go about bringing that up with the wife!!!!!

[Hames]

PEEKAY34: What is misshifting???? (Call me an idiot)...

[MR22ZZ]

PEEKAY34: What is misshifting???? (Call me an idiot)...

commonly known as crunching the gears....

and all too commonly done in the Stivos during Lift

[aaronng]

It's when you are (for example) at 8000rpm at 3rd gear, and you pull down for 4th, but due to speed of your shift in order to not lose revs, the stick accidentally goes into the gate for 2nd gear instead of 4th, and you let your clutch go without realising it. You get an instant 9500-10000rpm, which can damage the engine.

Aaron

[peekay]

Yup exacery

[Hames]

I get ya!! I thought u just mean crunching the gears, not missing into lower gears!!

[MR22ZZ]

Me too, as you can see, I'll remember not to do the other.... though I find it strange you could go to 2nd instead of 4th, 3rd instead of 5th fair enough... and has been done, but not in lift at the time, that would have meant I was speeding and I don't do that..... ;) :P :D

[dakota]

OK found the IZZ-fe development link again........

IZZ-fe

[ZEEROLLA]

Me too, as you can see, I'll remember not to do the other.... though I find it strange you could go to 2nd instead of 4th, 3rd instead of 5th fair enough... and has been done, but not in lift at the time, that would have meant I was speeding and I don't do that..... ;) :P :D

Didi yas check out the post of the Type-R misshifting from 3rd gear to 2nd gear? Go back a page or two and you should find it. Northy hosted it for me and that poor bloke over-revved to approx. 11000rpm (Redline 7900rpm)!!

[MR22ZZ]

yeah saw that... OUCH... but still find it hard to believe that you can misshift from 3rd to 2nd in a standard H pattern box!!!! On a Euro (noteably Renault) style staggered gate I can understand but not in an H pattern, I mean 3rd to 4th is straight down, and in the centre column!!!!