KLuger vibrations

[udor]

G'day.

I picked up my FWD Kluger last friday. The thing I have noticed is that when the engine is cold and I stick it in reverse or drive, a lot of vibrations enter the cabin. When the engine warms up the vibration are no longer apparent. Anyone else notice this?

[DJKOR]

Is this with your foot on or off the brake?

How cold are we talking about? Within the first minute or two? If so, you would find that in the first minute or two on a cold startup, the engine runs at a higher RPM than when warm. This can result in extra vibration being felt, but shouldn't be anything over the top. Just one possibility.

[Huma]

Is this with your foot on or off the brake?

How cold are we talking about? Within the first minute or two? If so, you would find that in the first minute or two on a cold startup, the engine runs at a higher RPM than when warm. This can result in extra vibration being felt, but shouldn't be anything over the top. Just one possibility.

I have same issue , I am waiting the 1000 km service to ask the dealer .

[udor]

Is this with your foot on or off the brake?

How cold are we talking about? Within the first minute or two? If so, you would find that in the first minute or two on a cold startup, the engine runs at a higher RPM than when warm. This can result in extra vibration being felt, but shouldn't be anything over the top. Just one possibility.

Yeah, it happens whenever the enginer is at ambient, and for a few minutes. I'll have to ask the dealer about it.

[Blackkluger]

No vibrations here, the sound though isnt smooth until the rev drops below 1000rpm(auto chock?) but we usually turn it on in summer, to cool the car down while getting the kids in, so by the time we drive off, it seems smooth.

[acorn]

Hi udor,

Picked up our Kluger recently and I'm experiencing the same issue - I tend to feel it through the brake pedal as you move into gear from a cold start. Feels like a rough shudder... then disappears when the vehicle is warm.

I just had the 1000km service/check done and queried with the service manager. He suggested to start the car and let it run for 15 seconds while the oil pressure in the transmission builds up. I'd be keen to hear what other owners are suggested though.

Cheers!

[DJKOR]

I tend to feel it through the brake pedal as you move into gear from a cold start. Feels like a rough shudder... then disappears when the vehicle is warm.

I think you are worrying about something that is part of normal operation. Try this (except replace reverse with drive):

Have you payed attention to the revs the engine is at when you do this? Are you selecting reverse within 10 seconds of a complete cold start? If so, wait about 20-30 seconds until the revs drop down to 1000RPM (or very close to) and then try selecting reverse. See if it does it much smoother then.

[Dave L]

I agree with DJKOR in that this is normal operation.

Ours does the same thing when started from cold and reverse is selected before the revs die down.

Perhaps for the next week, try starting the car before you jump in, then by the time you have got yourself seated and your seatbelt is on, you should notice the revs dying down to around 1000rpm or just under.

Once the engine has done this, then try selecting reverse and see if this makes a difference.

If it does, you know the solution....keep doing this.

If it doesn't make a difference, then perhaps let Toyota have a look and see what they think...

Modern cars don't need 5-10 minutes warm-up time before they should be driven (like older cars), however I don't think they are engineered to be started from cold and driven off the mark 5-10 seconds after ignition either.

[Turkey Galoot]

This has been reported in the past on US Highlander forum. Here are two threads that may help:

Strong Vibration at Cold Start

Ticking Noise?

Ken.

[udor]

The vibrations are unacceptable in a 50k car, and should have been engineered out during development of the vehicle. I would have expected better from Toyota, so I dont think I'll be keeping this POS. Should have just bought the Santa fe (my previous car was a Tuscon, great car no vibrations or any trouble at all. thanks Hyundai). Thumbs down to Toyota.

[Blind Kid Seeks]

did you not test drive the vehicle before you bought it?

the vibration is normal, it would have been present in the car you test drove.

from my understanding... the Small vibration you are noticing is the torque converter under load while you are on the brake/ebrake. just about every automatic vehicle does this to some degree.

blaming for toyota for not testing this? are you serious? these cars are so over tested its not funny. if toyota deemed the small vibration in your 50k POS to be un satisfactory they would have rectified it.

i sense buyers remorse. if you are that unhappy, yes, sell the car. buy your korean cheapy, and be done with it.

[57fritz]

the vibration is normal, it would have been present in the car you test drove. Normal? On which scale of normal. I'd suggest if it had been present, it would have been discussed. I've test driven a few cars over the years and walked away from deals because they didn't feel right.

from my understanding... the Small vibration you are noticing is the torque converter under load while you are on the brake/ebrake. just about every automatic vehicle does this to some degree.Makes sense but the impression is that it isn't normal. The posters need to supply a little more detailed info.

these cars are so over tested its not funny. During development sure, it would be not every car that comes off the assembly line. Occasionally, things get missed or ignored.

if toyota deemed the small vibration in your 50k POS to be un satisfactory they would have rectified it. You have got to be kidding, are you a Toyota employee planted in this forum? Read some of the other threads about problems and lack of satisfactory resolution, usually at the dealer level. I know some people can be difficult to please but consider this, a motor vehicle is usually the 2nd most expensive thing the average person buys, the 1st is the family home. I don't care what some corporate person thinks, $40000+ is a lot of money and you want to be satisfied with your purchase.

i sense buyers remorse. if you are that unhappy, yes, sell the car. buy your korean cheapy, and be done with it.

Nothing like a constructive discussion

This is normal? <_< I think some of you need to get a grip. I had no such issue with my car, I had a couple of other issues but not this vibration. It could be that the pre-delivery was not done properly, if at all. They charge a fortune for it so make sure it done properly. Go back to the dealer and complain. If not satisfied, go and see your State's Dept of Fair Trading. Toyota had a reputation for excellence, over the last few years its not as good as it has been but is still better than most.

[Kesawi]

While not jumping in on the vibration issue, there are a large number of other problems with the Klugers documented within this forum and on others that should never have made it to production, and only really become apparent once you've owned the car for some time or read about them on forums like TOCAU. They are all unacceptable for a $50K vehicle and particularly from a manufacturer such as Toyota, who traditionally have a good reputation for quality. A number of owners, including myself have also experienced pretty poor service and responses from thier Toyota dealers. All of these issue have put a lot of Kluger owners off ever owning a Toyota again. While I may not agree with udor that the Kluger is a POS, I agree with his sentiments and those of other users express elsewhere in this forum that Toyota need to lift their game.

[Kesawi]

You have got to be kidding, are you a Toyota employee planted in this forum?

If you read his sig, he does work for a Toyota Dealer.

[Blind Kid Seeks]

yeah i do work at a dealer... but to set you straight i am not planted by toyota, i was a forum member, moderator long before i took the job, selling cars i am passionate about.

i have many satisfied customers... in Klugers.

if yours is an isolated case then of course toyota should fix the problem. If its deemed normal by Toyota, then i am not sure what else ot tell you. If you are still unhappy, then yes sell the car.

i Guess i speak to people everyday who bad mouth the product, and pick fault with everything from seat comfort to engine noise or driveline "issues". but you know what, they still buy toyota cars. why? because they are well built and are great value for money.

if there is anything majorly wrong with your car, or you are not satisfied with the answer your toyota dealer gave you, go and get another opinion. Simply coming on here and raving about it to us, the community, will not do anything except make you feel better for venting your frustration.

if you think there will be adverse wear and tear or decreased performance due to the vibration your car gives you at cold start, as the transmission selects a gear, and rests on the torque converter, then please, go speak to your mechanic, and have them explain to you what your next course of action should be.

I by NO MEANS am saying that your car, at $50k value, or $20k value should, or shouldnt have problems, unvariably, some do. If they are Serious, they will be fixed. If they are NORMAL, they wont be.

In this case without actually ever experienceing your problem first hand, with my knowledge of this car (and every other Auto i have driven) there will be some vibration as a gear is engaged, and the car is being braked by either the park brake or the foot brake. Aurions, Camrys, Corolla, Kluger, Prado, they ALL have this very subtle vibration under cold operation temp. Not just our cars, but every car with an Auto... its just how they work.

perhaps take a look at some sites which explain how a torque converter operates, and what is involved in an Automatic gearbox.

if anyone thinks my advice is rubbish, please let me know. i will gladly take a more experienced persons advice to heart.

Andy.

[Kruzenvax]

Andy,

You are probably right about the technicalities involved in this particular issue (or maybe it is not an issue - don't know); the problem is - and I think many Kluger owners will agree with me - when the car has too many of those "small/rectifiable" problems or issues that Toyota deems normal (and I can tell you it is a big grey line there between what is normal or not from Toyota and owner's point of view).

Please have alook at the "recall" thread and others where issues are summarised. When each of them alone is probably minor (I admit the "core" of the car is reliable, I have not seen if falling apart... or well, there was a case in US but lets leave it for now... and I never had a problem that would have prevented me from reachnig my destination) when the car has a lot of them, it is very frustrating.

Each one takes a trip (2 if parts have to be ordered, 3 or more if the problem is intemittent or complicated) to the dealer, each one makes you fell let down, and if there is many of issues you hust don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Yes, in isolation, oil line recall (call it customer safety precaution whatever, a patient does not feel better if he know the latin name of his decease) is allright, as well as, say, steering shaft knocks, but what if it the 10th or 11th visit to a dealer within a year? And that is what Toyota does - looks at each problem in isolation and claims "it is minor or ot is normal, we have the reputation of quality, blah, blah..." It is like I enter the gas station and ask them for just a drop of petrol... they will probably give it to me for free but I guess I can't ask them for enough of "free" drops to fill a 25 lt tank.

Add to this all these sqeeks, rattles and noises and other issues, which Toyota deems "normal"... and you see people frown next time they hear about "reputation of quality". Or am I expected to be greatefull that the car does not fall apart? When people buy $50K car they expect bit more that relaible drivetrain.

And BTW "if you are unhappy - sell it" approach (by Toyota) - or lets call it a lack of responsiveness and customer care - is probably what is behind the most of complains here (once again see the "Oil Line Recall" thread). Selling a car involves some big $$$ to be lost, if this is what replaced good old "if you ar happy - tell others, if not - tell us" - I can guarantee this will make a dent in car sales.

Regards

Alex

yeah i do work at a dealer... but to set you straight i am not planted by toyota, i was a forum member, moderator long before i took the job, selling cars i am passionate about.

i have many satisfied customers... in Klugers.

if yours is an isolated case then of course toyota should fix the problem. If its deemed normal by Toyota, then i am not sure what else ot tell you. If you are still unhappy, then yes sell the car.

... Skipped ...

Edited December 29, 2009 by Kruzenvax

[udor]

did you not test drive the vehicle before you bought it?

the vibration is normal, it would have been present in the car you test drove.

from my understanding... the Small vibration you are noticing is the torque converter under load while you are on the brake/ebrake. just about every automatic vehicle does this to some degree.

blaming for toyota for not testing this? are you serious? these cars are so over tested its not funny. if toyota deemed the small vibration in your 50k POS to be un satisfactory they would have rectified it.

i sense buyers remorse. if you are that unhappy, yes, sell the car. buy your korean cheapy, and be done with it.

Dont make me laugh. I have owned a lot of new cars over the years and never had 'remorse' as you say. I have also driven many models of cars like most other people probably have on this site over the years and I have never experienced this before. Therefore, it is my opinion that this is abnormal, and certainly would not have been designed to operate in this way. I am a commissioning engineer by trade and when I come across these problems I would ensure that the supplier would investigate and rectify - which I will. And if they say its 'normal' then they must sign off that it is not detrimental and will not affect the operating life of the vehicle, not for just '3 years'.

I definately wont be buying another toyota, very poor quality.

(In addition I noticed a grinding noise coming from the steering while I was turning left. Toyota is a joke. I'm gonna flog this POS off in a year to some other poor sap, cut my losses and buy something decent).

Edited December 29, 2009 by udor

[outback]

I definately wont be buying another toyota, very poor quality.

LOL

[udor]

I definately wont be buying another toyota, very poor quality.

LOL

In my opinion Hyundai is streets ahead of toyota now.

[Kesawi]

It is also particularly frustrating as an early 2008 build owner to read on this and other forums, that a lot of the defects have been identified by Toyota and rectified in later builds, but there appears to be no program in place for existing owners. It is also even more frustrating when some defects are rectified under warranty in the US, while in Australia they won't touch them. I pretty much have just about every production defect identified, and Alex (Kruzenvax) is correct, in isolation they are not so much of a drama, but with all of them it is a little too much to stomach.

I understand that at the end of the day Toyota are a business and not a charity, and will run the numbers and go with the option that will cost them the least in the long term. It doesn't mean that I'm happy with the outcome. The rule about never upgrading to the latest version of Microsoft Windows for at least 6-12 months until the bugs have been ironed out also applies to cars as well.

I still think the Kluger is a great car for what I need and would recommend it to someone else but with caveats in relation to its faults and the level of quality and customer service to expect. I would also strongly recommend that they read this and other forums so that they are educated before they buy and don't have false expectations. Unfortunately I found this forum too late to assist me in buying the vehicle.

Andy - How about pinning some of the threads with discussions on the most frequently asked topics to the top of the forum? Would be happy to give you the topic numbers.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Kesawi

[Blind Kid Seeks]

^^^ By all means mate... let me know which you think need pinning and i will.

this place is for discussion and i am all for it.

Udor, i am trying understand your dissappontment with the car the you have bought, and while i agree with everyone of you on here that there is a vibration, i am also saying that from my experience... not somehting that toyota has told me, but from my own experience... the vibration in the driveline when stationary, with a cold transmission/engine to me sounds like Normal operation for ANY car with an Automatic box.

the preasara demo we have does this... i drove it today... and the KXS 2wd does it too....my collegues Sportivo ZR6 is the same. Also our corolla's and Yaris's..... start car when cold, and hit Reverse or Drive, and there is a shudder/vibration.

i am not saying you are wrong about your specific vibration... as i havent felt it. IF you want to, please bring me the car and i will gladly inspect it myself. and if you would like to test any other 2grfe engined cars while you are with me to check for the same issue, i encourage it.

Andy.

[Tango]

All Internal combustion engines generate vibrations to some degrees. More noticeable on cold starts until the engine reaches its operating temperature. If you want zero vibration, plug-in electric car is your solution when it is on sale.

As for the vibration when putting the transmission into reverse on cold start, this is common on standard automatic with a set number of gear ratios (a.k.a speeds) when the transmission fluid is not warm up. If you want zero vibration, buy a car using continuous variable transmission (CVT).

Cheers....

[DJKOR]

I just don't get how someone can be so fed up with having some extra vibration or gear engaging shudder when the engine is cold. There is a reason why when the engine is warm, it is referred to as operating temperature.

I still don't understand why people complain about such simple things.

[Huma]

I just don't get how someone can be so fed up with having some extra vibration or gear engaging shudder when the engine is cold. There is a reason why when the engine is warm, it is referred to as operating temperature.

I still don't understand why people complain about such simple things.

I have 3 cars . automatic V6 camry 2004 no vibration , automatic ford falcon 2001 no vibration , and the last one is the one week old kluger has vibration .

[scott bell]

I definately wont be buying another toyota, very poor quality.

LOL

In my opinion Hyundai is streets ahead of toyota now.

Two problems with the Santa Fe, firstly is got an "A" only for side strength, and the picture shows it creases badly.

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=812

Secondly, and I maybe wrong on the latest details, but why are there US govt level investigations into the airbags not deploying in these cars?