Just does not feel right, powers?

[Dead]

Alright, had my sportivo as said previously for roughly 2 years. I have been impressed by it and also not impressed. I feel some days i have to rip the guts out of it to get some decent power out of it. I feel a bit like a hoon too because of this. I am not a massive car expert but came someone shed some light to why this is happening. I have not issues with the car it just came out of it 60,000km service and i made sure my clutch and gearbox where throughly check and all came back clear.

More or less i am just worried that due to me having to hit a 4 or 5 grand rev to keep up for a decent flow of traffic with a v8 commo on my ***** it just feels like i expected more power?

You're missing the whole point of VVTLi and VTEC...

The idea is to have a normal well-behaved engine below 6000RPM and then a suprising slap in the face of torque and power after 6000RPM.

There is a normal/economy camshaft that makes your engine behave like a normal Corolla until around 5200RPM, then oil pressure builds and the engine engages the performance camshaft which is much more agressive and opens the valves wider and for longer periods of time. Hitting the high-cam is not ripping the guts out of it, it's designed to do that, and you aren't making excessive noise or pollution because the car has passed all ADR's so you are not a hoon either.

If you want a lump of torque under 5000RPM like a V8, then buy a V8. If you want instant usable power between 2000 and 6000RPM then buy a turbo car. But if you want a car with 2 engines in 1, great fuel economy and a bit of fun whenever you want it, then stick with the VVTLi and don't whinge!

instant usable power... turbo... should they be in the same sentence? maybe you should have said supercharged...

its great and all to have lift and that extra kick.. but I don't see the point of having it kick in at 6000rpm... who revs the guts out of their stivos in every day driving? i know some people are lead foots and like to guzzle the fuel but in my sc rolla now and then i'll redline which is all good, i just think 6k is too high IMO

6k is an everyday achievable target to me really. Once you get used to a close ratio box and the gear ranges, everything else comes naturally.

If I want to go fast, I throw it back a gear or two, tap the gas, clutch out and go for it. The gearboxes have always handled it fine (bar a few cases, which were just pure abuse). The key is keeping it above 6k when you shift, and to be honest, it's not as painful as it sounds.

[DANZZT231]

Driven a Hyundai Excel for 1 week to reset yourself. Then drive the sportivo again.

[Punk_200sx]

Alright, had my sportivo as said previously for roughly 2 years. I have been impressed by it and also not impressed. I feel some days i have to rip the guts out of it to get some decent power out of it. I feel a bit like a hoon too because of this. I am not a massive car expert but came someone shed some light to why this is happening. I have not issues with the car it just came out of it 60,000km service and i made sure my clutch and gearbox where throughly check and all came back clear.

More or less i am just worried that due to me having to hit a 4 or 5 grand rev to keep up for a decent flow of traffic with a v8 commo on my ***** it just feels like i expected more power?

You're missing the whole point of VVTLi and VTEC...

The idea is to have a normal well-behaved engine below 6000RPM and then a suprising slap in the face of torque and power after 6000RPM.

There is a normal/economy camshaft that makes your engine behave like a normal Corolla until around 5200RPM, then oil pressure builds and the engine engages the performance camshaft which is much more agressive and opens the valves wider and for longer periods of time. Hitting the high-cam is not ripping the guts out of it, it's designed to do that, and you aren't making excessive noise or pollution because the car has passed all ADR's so you are not a hoon either.

If you want a lump of torque under 5000RPM like a V8, then buy a V8. If you want instant usable power between 2000 and 6000RPM then buy a turbo car. But if you want a car with 2 engines in 1, great fuel economy and a bit of fun whenever you want it, then stick with the VVTLi and don't whinge!

instant usable power... turbo... should they be in the same sentence? maybe you should have said supercharged...

its great and all to have lift and that extra kick.. but I don't see the point of having it kick in at 6000rpm... who revs the guts out of their stivos in every day driving? i know some people are lead foots and like to guzzle the fuel but in my sc rolla now and then i'll redline which is all good, i just think 6k is too high IMO

Well it gets to 6k pretty quick, plus fuel consumption between thrashing it and driving the stivo normally isn't all that different, still generally get alteast 600km out of the tank.

[JAZE55]

Yeah it is true i rarely use lift in everyday driving, only occasionally on weekends. My car has more then enough power to keep up with traffic, but I do agree with being seen as a hoon when dropping a gear and hearing the car scream its guts out hahah.

[Guest dong-soo]

i drive a modified ae86 trueno (ltuned smallport 4age with 11.1:1 comp)... i agree, like a sportivo we have decent power at mid revs..

but to really kick azz we need to rev our cars HARD.

i think if u up the comp0ression in any car, it will have increased power from idle to redline...

try get a thinner metal headgasket and shave the block or head or do highcomp pistons.. would help the sportivo a lot.

Edited March 7, 2008 by dong-soo

[xoom]

instant usable power... turbo... should they be in the same sentence? maybe you should have said supercharged...

disagree here ..... u need to look at correctly sizing the turbo to the car and the new line of garret turbo's and u'll c y i disagree.

its great and all to have lift and that extra kick.. but I don't see the point of having it kick in at 6000rpm... who revs the guts out of their stivos in every day driving? i know some people are lead foots and like to guzzle the fuel but in my sc rolla now and then i'll redline which is all good, i just think 6k is too high IMO

if u look into the dynamics of the high cam and low cam u'll work out why it kicks in at over 6K rpms ..... ill give u a hint .... has something to do with adequate air flow .... or should i say lack there of below 6K rpms on a stock car ......

some more details regarding said S/C rolla would b nice as well

[Dead]

try get a thinner metal headgasket and shave the block or head or do highcomp pistons.. would help the sportivo a lot.

Hey hey hey... woa woa woa. Let's not get carried away here Tofu man!

...or should we?

[Guest fujiwara_tofu]

try get a thinner metal headgasket and shave the block or head or do highcomp pistons.. would help the sportivo a lot.

Hey hey hey... woa woa woa. Let's not get carried away here Tofu man!

...or should we?

hehe yes we should get carried away and do those mods :P

i have driven bigports with the tvis and standard comp, and compared to my high comp smallport, the difference is huge.

comp for the win... do it... lol

[Mintos]

instant usable power... turbo... should they be in the same sentence? maybe you should have said supercharged...

disagree here ..... u need to look at correctly sizing the turbo to the car and the new line of garret turbo's and u'll c y i disagree.

Its true... in the last few years the efficiency of turbo response has improved greatly. Have a look at some of the turbo's being developed by the europeans (audi/porsche turbos) and the yanks now.

Hell, even my 10 year old standard RB25 turbo with a ceramic exhaust wheel still rams on 12 psi in no more than 1/2 a second anywhere between 2k rpm and redline and that is with about 3 metres of cooler piping.

To associate turbo's with lack of response these days simply isn't right, just gotta pick your application!

And to contribute to the OP... the likelyhood is you are just getting used to the power mate, the thrill of 100kw atw doesn't last too long :P As others have said, you can try and bandaid fix this disspleasure with something like a CAI or you can drink a nice tall glass of harden the **** up and apply some boost to that ****. Just sayin'

PS. Yes, LS1s are dinosaurs but when modified whatsoever *cough* twin turbo *cough* they prove why the Aussies were dumb enough to buy em'. Oh and they sound sweet with the right exhaust and cams :D

[Suprathai]

Its easy to say that modern day turbos provide really good response which is true.

Only problem with the sportivo and the addition of the turbo is the power band.........the thing revs to 8K rpm, your turbo selection does become slightly limited. Have to look at efficiency and stuff, and if your looking at adding a turbo to the 2zzge then a new turbo is on the list, forget about anything from another car

[xoom]

Its easy to say that modern day turbos provide really good response which is true.

Only problem with the sportivo and the addition of the turbo is the power band.........the thing revs to 8K rpm, your turbo selection does become slightly limited. Have to look at efficiency and stuff, and if your looking at adding a turbo to the 2zzge then a new turbo is on the list, forget about anything from another car

oh come on mate ..... dont tell me ur afraid of a little maths and data analysis :P :P :P :P :P :P

its pretty simple actually ..... no rebuilding go a gt28rs ..... if ur going a build go a gt2871 ..... want a bit more umph uptop ..... go a gt3071 or gt3076 and if ur just after a straight line warrior u might wanna go something a bit bigger. All depends on how much boost u want .... the air flow of ur setup ..... how much delay ur prepared to put up with etc etc etc .... like i said above .... a bit of maths and data analysis ;) ;)

[Dead]

Its easy to say that modern day turbos provide really good response which is true.

Only problem with the sportivo and the addition of the turbo is the power band.........the thing revs to 8K rpm, your turbo selection does become slightly limited. Have to look at efficiency and stuff, and if your looking at adding a turbo to the 2zzge then a new turbo is on the list, forget about anything from another car

oh come on mate ..... dont tell me ur afraid of a little maths and data analysis :P :P :P :P :P :P

its pretty simple actually ..... no rebuilding go a gt28rs ..... if ur going a build go a gt2871 ..... want a bit more umph uptop ..... go a gt3071 or gt3076 and if ur just after a straight line warrior u might wanna go something a bit bigger. All depends on how much boost u want .... the air flow of ur setup ..... how much delay ur prepared to put up with etc etc etc .... like i said above .... a bit of maths and data analysis ;) ;)

Something tells me you've done this before bill...

[xoom]

Something tells me you've done this before bill...

Nah mate not at all :P :P :P :P what gives u that impression ???? :whistling: :whistling:

[jayrome]

instant usable power... turbo... should they be in the same sentence? maybe you should have said supercharged...

disagree here ..... u need to look at correctly sizing the turbo to the car and the new line of garret turbo's and u'll c y i disagree.

its great and all to have lift and that extra kick.. but I don't see the point of having it kick in at 6000rpm... who revs the guts out of their stivos in every day driving? i know some people are lead foots and like to guzzle the fuel but in my sc rolla now and then i'll redline which is all good, i just think 6k is too high IMO

if u look into the dynamics of the high cam and low cam u'll work out why it kicks in at over 6K rpms ..... ill give u a hint .... has something to do with adequate air flow .... or should i say lack there of below 6K rpms on a stock car ......

some more details regarding said S/C rolla would b nice as well

turbo still needs to spool up regardless of the size... i'm just saying personally i'd go sc as it spins with the engine and instant response, no lag.

i'm not really interested in looking into the dynamics of the high cam and low cam, dont get me wrong lift is great and everything, i just wouldnt like to have to rev it that high for it to kick in, i mean redline is about 7k right? im not sure with the stivos but my seca is 7k redline 8k rev cut.

[xoom]

instant usable power... turbo... should they be in the same sentence? maybe you should have said supercharged...

disagree here ..... u need to look at correctly sizing the turbo to the car and the new line of garret turbo's and u'll c y i disagree.

its great and all to have lift and that extra kick.. but I don't see the point of having it kick in at 6000rpm... who revs the guts out of their stivos in every day driving? i know some people are lead foots and like to guzzle the fuel but in my sc rolla now and then i'll redline which is all good, i just think 6k is too high IMO

if u look into the dynamics of the high cam and low cam u'll work out why it kicks in at over 6K rpms ..... ill give u a hint .... has something to do with adequate air flow .... or should i say lack there of below 6K rpms on a stock car ......

some more details regarding said S/C rolla would b nice as well

turbo still needs to spool up regardless of the size... i'm just saying personally i'd go sc as it spins with the engine and instant response, no lag.

i'm not really interested in looking into the dynamics of the high cam and low cam, dont get me wrong lift is great and everything, i just wouldnt like to have to rev it that high for it to kick in, i mean redline is about 7k right? im not sure with the stivos but my seca is 7k redline 8k rev cut.

however u could also flip the argument around and say a charger doesn't build boost quick enough because it has to be matched and driven by the cars revs ...... if u compare a s/c kit vs a turbo kit for a non built 2zz it takes till over 6K rpms to get the 7psi from the s/c where as 7psi is achieved as low as 3K rpms on the turbo. And with what ur calling a spool delay for a close ratioed setup like the stivo ur @ 3K rpms in literally no time ...... drive one u'll c wat i mean.

The s/c vs turbo debate is so old however given where turbo's are @ these days ive seen many which will out perform a s/c in all facets ..... just some food for thought

Fuel cut on a stivo stock is 8250 and with a ecu lifting it to 8500 is fine ......stock lift engages around 6200rpms and u can get lift down to 5K rpms once ur car is boosted ..... remember air flow ..... we experimented below 5K rpms and it was fine as well but wasnt effective if the car wasnt @ WOT ..... under WOT we dug lift deep into the 4K rpm range ;)

[Suprathai]

While we are on the S/C topic, I finally laid my eyes on a TRD Aurion going onto the motorway.

Looks quite 'manly' if you ask me. Dunno about performance cause it had a car in front of it.

[DANZZT231]

Aurion TRD is one handsome car.

[jayrome]

instant usable power... turbo... should they be in the same sentence? maybe you should have said supercharged...

disagree here ..... u need to look at correctly sizing the turbo to the car and the new line of garret turbo's and u'll c y i disagree.

its great and all to have lift and that extra kick.. but I don't see the point of having it kick in at 6000rpm... who revs the guts out of their stivos in every day driving? i know some people are lead foots and like to guzzle the fuel but in my sc rolla now and then i'll redline which is all good, i just think 6k is too high IMO

if u look into the dynamics of the high cam and low cam u'll work out why it kicks in at over 6K rpms ..... ill give u a hint .... has something to do with adequate air flow .... or should i say lack there of below 6K rpms on a stock car ......

some more details regarding said S/C rolla would b nice as well

turbo still needs to spool up regardless of the size... i'm just saying personally i'd go sc as it spins with the engine and instant response, no lag.

i'm not really interested in looking into the dynamics of the high cam and low cam, dont get me wrong lift is great and everything, i just wouldnt like to have to rev it that high for it to kick in, i mean redline is about 7k right? im not sure with the stivos but my seca is 7k redline 8k rev cut.

however u could also flip the argument around and say a charger doesn't build boost quick enough because it has to be matched and driven by the cars revs ...... if u compare a s/c kit vs a turbo kit for a non built 2zz it takes till over 6K rpms to get the 7psi from the s/c where as 7psi is achieved as low as 3K rpms on the turbo. And with what ur calling a spool delay for a close ratioed setup like the stivo ur @ 3K rpms in literally no time ...... drive one u'll c wat i mean.

The s/c vs turbo debate is so old however given where turbo's are @ these days ive seen many which will out perform a s/c in all facets ..... just some food for thought

Fuel cut on a stivo stock is 8250 and with a ecu lifting it to 8500 is fine ......stock lift engages around 6200rpms and u can get lift down to 5K rpms once ur car is boosted ..... remember air flow ..... we experimented below 5K rpms and it was fine as well but wasnt effective if the car wasnt @ WOT ..... under WOT we dug lift deep into the 4K rpm range ;)

well i'm not too sure how the sc would work with the 2zz because at about 3k i've already hit about 10-12psi. Turbo generally outperforms sc's because you can achieve massive power figures where sc is for that instant response.

[selyaT]

well i'm not too sure how the sc would work with the 2zz because at about 3k i've already hit about 10-12psi. Turbo generally outperforms sc's because you can achieve massive power figures where sc is for that instant response.

Generally I think my "instant useable power between 2000-6000RPM" statement holds... I'm guessing you haven't driven an Evo? The term "lag" is not in its vocabulary, as Mintos was trying to say. Don't get me wrong, I see the virtues of S/C's too.

Back to the thread topic, I think this guy was expecting the Corolla to be a rocket ship. In the big scheme of things, the 2ZZ is just a bit of fun.

[Dead]

S/C = clutch activated boost. It's instant. I'd rather that for my car in terms of it being more streetable.

In the big scheme of things, the 2ZZ is just a bit of fun.

Unless you're Kebbi, and insane. Good combo.

[Guest fujiwara_tofu]

super charger is crank driven, so the more revs u do the more boost u make... i think that is how it is..

so it should be more linear than a turbo output.

step off the gass, revs drop from 7000 to 4500 and step on again, boost is instant.

turbo and super chargers have there own merits. which best suits your driving style is the correct one to use.

[Suprathai]

I feel a S/C vs Turbo debate just around the corner

[Dead]

I feel a S/C vs Turbo debate just around the corner

AVPVSCVTVDS

(Alien vs Predator vs Super Charger vs Turbo vs Dong Soo)

Now 'THAT' is an Epic Movie.

[Guest fujiwara_tofu]

I feel a S/C vs Turbo debate just around the corner

AVPVSCVTVDS

(Alien vs Predator vs Super Charger vs Turbo vs Dong Soo)

Now 'THAT' is an Epic Movie.

oh mai gaaad.

... looket dongsoo !! he is ready for the debate LMFAO ^__^

by the way.. he is not dancing.. he is punching side to side.. u oll better watch out !! :P

Edited March 11, 2008 by fujiwara_tofu

[MT]

LMFAO