Rattle in start up

[TRD228]

Has anyone dealt with the rattle at start up? Has anyone fixed the problem...

[dave262]

Please help in trying to keep the forum clean, and use the search function, as rattles are not unheard of. A simple search for "rattle" reveals a whole swag of topics.

However, answering your question, there is one topic that springs to mind for me, which was related to supposed "piston slap". I don't believe that this could be an issue in such a new car regardless, but the cause of the rattles is most likely the tappets; as was outlined in the thread. These are known to be a little noisy when cold in the Aurions, and will usually quieten down once the car has reached operating temperature. It is normal behavior and doesn't indicate any problems with the car.

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/inde...showtopic=17419

Other possible causes could be the common problem of the air conditioner hose on the drivers side of the car rattling against the car body, which randomly occurs either during startup or moving. There are also common issues with rattles in the dash, but this will typically occur while the car is moving or going over bumps, and rarely during startup. I have personally experienced the air conditioner hose rattle to some frustration, and found the fix as simple as slightly bending a bracket to clear the hoses from the frame. The dash rattle can be fixed by a Toyota dealer over a few hours by fitting a warranty-covered kit.

[SecaBoy]

i'm not sure if the sportivos can have the same issue or not... but on my trd, i have a "squeek" and then a "rattle" on start up...

its do to with the belt... i'm getting it replaced for the second time next week and hopefully it gets **** fixed this time cause i'm starting to get ****** off about it...

[Freddo]

for the first time today when i pressed the start stop button it turned over really lazily. it sounded half ***** and weird.

might get it serviced at 10thou

[David the Viking]

Has anyone dealt with the rattle at start up? Has anyone fixed the problem...

My TRD would start to get a rattle when it was due for a service. I supplied my own oil this time as I am not happy with the "genuine oil" supplied by the service departments. I now run a Penrite full synthetic oil. It is now a case of wait and see if it stops the rattle.

i'm not sure if the sportivos can have the same issue or not... but on my trd, i have a "squeek" and then a "rattle" on start up...

its do to with the belt... i'm getting it replaced for the second time next week and hopefully it gets **** fixed this time cause i'm starting to get ****** off about it...

Make sure you get the revised belt as it is 25mm shorter then what was originally supplied. Had mine changed last week all good so far.

[DJKOR]

My oh so perfect Aurion has now developed this cold start up rattle. Previously I would only experience it like once every few months, but now nearly every third time I start the engine when cold, I get a rattle. Best way to describe it is like a marble in a corrugated tin can.

I'm going to have my 75,000km service tomorrow and I really hope it's just something like David said above:

My TRD would start to get a rattle when it was due for a service.

[SecaBoy]

yeah Daryl, i believe that Dave was right... as after my last service the noise has completely gone... (the squeak is still there, but thats std TRD issue)...

[David the Viking]

I still get it now and then but only after I have done 10,000Km since last service, it has definitely been better with the change of oil brand being used though.

I dont think it is piston slap, more like a timing chain rattle or maybe something in the vvti mechanism.

[DJKOR]

I dont think it is piston slap, more like a timing chain rattle or maybe something in the vvti mechanism.

That's what I'm thinking. It seems to be coming from the upper part of the block. It's similar to the sound of that intake control valve closing, but more metallic. It just has me stumped.

Maybe it really is the VVT-i mechanism. When you see a video animation of it working, you can kind of picture how it can generate a knock/rattle sound if it doesn't have appropriate oil pressure in it.

The mechanism is like this for those that don't know:

Please wait a few seconds for Video to Load!

Having a quick look at the service manual, maybe it ties in with the so called 'lock pin':

When the engine stops, the intake side VVT-i controller is locked on the most retarded angle side by the lock pin, and the exhaust side controller is locked on the most advanced angle side. This ensures excellent engine startability.

The oil pressure sent from the advance or retard side path at the intake and exhaust camshaft causes rotation in the VVT-i controller vane circumferential direction to vary the intake valve timing continuously.

An advanced angle assist spring is provided on the exhaust side VVT-i controller. This helps to apply torque in the advanced angle direction so that the vane lock pin securely engages with the housing when the engine stops.

When hydraulic pressure is not applied to the VVT-i controller immediately after the engine has been started, the lock pin locks the movement of the VVT-i controller to prevent a knocking noise.

[ZZR88]

I recently got rattles on start up as well, prob take it to toyota next few days to see what they say.

[DJKOR]

One thing that is inconclusive but potentially something to think about as well, could anyone think of a way that a a clogged air filter can create come abnormal knocking noise in the engine?

Yesterday after I had mentioned the problem, I started the engine while still close to operating temperature and it made the same sound, but slightly more agressive. The noise didn't sound so good, so I stopped the engine and visually inspected what I could. Found noting except the air filter was REALLY REALLY dirty (thank you road works). It seriously looked like even I couldn't breathe though it that well.

Anyways, I had a spare one here so I changed it over. Started the engine again... no rattle. Go for a drive, car actually felt like it had a little more grunt to it... probably just my head. Go out to movies, when I come back again, start car (1/6 way up on temp gauge)... no rattle. Go home, start car today... no rattle. Sounded just perfect. Again, did some work today, and when finished, started the engine again (completely cooled down)... no rattle.

Not a really conclusive test since it is now at the dealer for a service, but just something else to think of. Don't exactly know the dynamics of how it could possibly be linked, but maybe one thing to think about.

[SecaBoy]

I can't see how though.

Mine used to make the sound at any time any place any temp.

[DJKOR]

I can't see how though.

Mine used to make the sound at any time any place any temp.

I dunno. It's all just theories. Theories that start sounding possible when you really can't figure the damn thing out. Well wither way, just had the car serviced and and yet to hear it come back. Will see how it goes over the next week.

[David the Viking]

How many kms had you done between services Daryl?

[DJKOR]

How many kms had you done between services Daryl?

This time around it was 15,000km. Had no time for a mid-service this time thanks to work etc, etc.

[DJKOR]

Thought I would update this. It's been a week since I had my car serviced (basically oil/oil filter/engine air filter changed), and the rattle that I was getting before is completely gone. Have not had it since. Pretty reassuring though to know it's not anything that's permanent... at the moment.

[dave262]

One thing that is inconclusive but potentially something to think about as well, could anyone think of a way that a a clogged air filter can create come abnormal knocking noise in the engine?

Yesterday after I had mentioned the problem, I started the engine while still close to operating temperature and it made the same sound, but slightly more agressive. The noise didn't sound so good, so I stopped the engine and visually inspected what I could. Found noting except the air filter was REALLY REALLY dirty (thank you road works). It seriously looked like even I couldn't breathe though it that well.

Anyways, I had a spare one here so I changed it over. Started the engine again... no rattle. Go for a drive, car actually felt like it had a little more grunt to it... probably just my head. Go out to movies, when I come back again, start car (1/6 way up on temp gauge)... no rattle. Go home, start car today... no rattle. Sounded just perfect. Again, did some work today, and when finished, started the engine again (completely cooled down)... no rattle.

Not a really conclusive test since it is now at the dealer for a service, but just something else to think of. Don't exactly know the dynamics of how it could possibly be linked, but maybe one thing to think about.

The only thing I could think of is that potentially the restricted air flow could have changed the fuel mixture somewhat. Maybe appearing in the form of pinging, or VVT-I timing change or another mechanism attempting to compensate for the mixture? Just a theory, but the Aurion does have a fair bit of "tweaks" the ECU can perform on the engine in normal operation...

[Alfred Q]

My oh so perfect Aurion has now developed this cold start up rattle. Previously I would only experience it like once every few months, but now nearly every third time I start the engine when cold, I get a rattle. Best way to describe it is like a marble in a corrugated tin can.

I'm going to have my 75,000km service tomorrow and I really hope it's just something like David said above:

My TRD would start to get a rattle when it was due for a service.

Hi !

I had a similar problem (previous car).

Before I explain what helped me, I have to put a disclaimer in here.

1) I am ABSOLUTLY a noob when it comes to mechanical stuff (that is why I am so grateful to DJKOR for his advise)

2) This is my mechanics advise and opinion only (but it worked for me)

3) it mentions a product being sold by a Network Marketing Company (so if this is deemed out of line please feel free to delete)

Now to my experience:

My mechanic told me this knocking on start up is usually caused by the engine turning over while the oil has not started lubricating yet( as the engine stops, so does the oil pump, over time the oil film begins to settle, as the oil pump needs the engine running it becomes a catch 22 situation, you need lubrication to start the engine but to get it you must start the engine...I hope this makes sense...it took me a little while to get it but I have a patient mechanic)

Therefor the most damage to an engine occurs in the first few seconds after each cold start.

Another source of "Knocking" is condensation. As the engine cools , condensation forms and "thins " the oil. (that can also contribute to difficult starts)

He recommended "ROIL Gold" (back than) now ROIL Platinum (here is some info on U-tube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiB5fh7PztA

I noticed several things

1) no more knocking

2) smoother engine running (it also runs a bit "cooler")

3) more power (it feels more responsive)

4) about 10-15% less fuel conumtion (have not tested it on the AURION though, my last car was a FORD)

Before I forget, he told me not to put it into the engine below 10 000km as it also hardens the metal components (less wear but stops it from running in properly, after that less wear is a good thing though)

I actually became a member as you can not purchase it from stores......

I hope this is helpful but if you feel it is out of line, feel free to get rid of it!

Kind Regards

Alfred

[ZZR88]

I had my car serviced on monday, after the service, the rattle on start up dissapeared

[DJKOR]

Thanks for the suggestion Alfred Q. Definitely something that one can consider.

In my own opinion though, if the rattle has gone away from a standard oil/filter change, then I don't really see the need to put any additives into the oil. Maybe it's my own mentality of "if it's not broke, then don't fix it". I probably would look into it though if I found the rattle still continued after the oil change. It's just for me, I don't like the idea of an engine oil additive when a problem is no longer present.

That said, when it comes to oil additives, I trust Lucas products. If anyone does get a rattle that doesn't go away in the Aurion, it would be interesting to see how this ROIL stuff works. After watching the video, it nearly looks too good to be true. I wonder why we don't seem to hear much about it.

[Alfred Q]

Thanks for the suggestion Alfred Q. Definitely something that one can consider.

In my own opinion though, if the rattle has gone away from a standard oil/filter change, then I don't really see the need to put any additives into the oil. Maybe it's my own mentality of "if it's not broke, then don't fix it". I probably would look into it though if I found the rattle still continued after the oil change. It's just for me, I don't like the idea of an engine oil additive when a problem is no longer present.

That said, when it comes to oil additives, I trust Lucas products. If anyone does get a rattle that doesn't go away in the Aurion, it would be interesting to see how this ROIL stuff works. After watching the video, it nearly looks too good to be true. I wonder why we don't seem to hear much about it.

You are quite welcome!

I know exactly what you mean with being very conservative with additives. A friend of mine stuffed his engine up by putting some "Teflon" coating stuff in there.

If you ever decide to use it let me know the difference as you have done some torque testing previously? Would be cool if you have it on paper so as to be able to compare it......yes, I am also very skeptical. (at least I used to be, now I am very happy with my decision to put it in)

I did find some independent research done by the Queensland University of Technology that may be of interest to you though

(it was based on the previous product though, the new one is considered to be even better so it is OK)

If anybody is considering using it, feel free to drop me a line and I can show you how to get your hands on it.

I hope your car is OK after the service!

Regards

Alfred

[SecaBoy]

hey

has anyone had this noise come back since their last service?

mine is slowly coming back... once every 7 or so starts i get the noise... :(

its actually coming up on 7,500kms since the last service too... lol

just curious to see if anyone has got the noise again...

especially you dave, cause you're using non genuine oil... (well, so you think anyway... :P hehe)

cheers

ash.

[DJKOR]

has anyone had this noise come back since their last service?

I haven't had my noise come back since that last service. I'm at 88,300km at the moment and haven't had a slight re-appearance of it, despite being close to it's next service.

[VF-X]

Yea.. Mine's coming back for sure with a bonus in the mid air-con section. It's like stucking a paper to a whirling fan... Kind of like a buzzing sound..

Gonna bring up this issues at my next service + mention all the complaints that u guys brought up like gear flares even thou I haven't notice anything :P

[SCOOTA44]

Has anyone dealt with the rattle at start up? Has anyone fixed the problem...

the only rattle I have found would be the tappets waiting for oil to get to them ( my car done 102k ) the only thing I can think of is the timing chain tensioners not right, a bit like some of the ford cars I have heard recently, they make a horrible rattle especially on idle.