Help on new car: What should I do now?

[cooldude]

Hi guys,

I am newbie here, just found this forum through browsing. I hope you guys can help give me your input to my problem. :(

I just bought a new corolla ascent and when I would like to pick it up last weekend, I found that there are scratches around the door handles (on every single door). I have been told that this is a new car and I paid for the new price but I suspect that this is a demo car.

Could it be the case? How do I differentiate between demo car and new car?

The scratches are pretty obvious from close inspection but the dealer kept saying that there are not any scratches. Now the dealer agreed to polish the car (even though the salesman has tried to polish it while I am there) but I am still afraid that this is not a new car. I haven't seen the car again after the polishing and I had refused to pay them the full amount until I see it again. But I really have doubts now whether to proceed with this transaction .... :(

Do you guys have/heard any similar situation before? Is this normal to pay 20K +++ and you didn't get a "smooth" new car? Should I ask for another new car? or should I just forfeit my deposit and get another new car from another dealer????

This dealer seemed a bit dodgy to me after they said they can't see the scratches ...

Please help to advise and thanks in advance!

Glad to have found this forum.

Cheers.

[Cooley]

Where about are you from?

Did you talk to the manager?

[cooldude]

Thanks for the fast reply man.

I am from Sydney. Yes, talked to the manager. Actually the salesman admitted that he saw the scratches and that's why he tried to polished them. But it was unsuccessful.

But only when the manager came out he then turn around his thinking and said that he see no scratches also.

Left me thinking, gees man, if you didn't see the scratches, what the hell were you polishing just now????

The manager in fact a bit pushy, try to intimidate and said that he can't see the scratches and I have to paid up the money ... And he also said that the scratches will appear anyway after I used the car .... (but 20K+++ is a big money to me and the scratches seen in used car is actually the main reason why I am buying new instead ...duh!)

Why am I so unlucky in this case? Should I approach Fair trade? What should I do?

Where about are you from?

Did you talk to the manager?

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[Cooley]

Yup, you should approach the Fair Trade, but not at this stage I guess. Let's leave it as the last option. For the mean time, REMEMBER, NEVER, NEVER, pay them a cents until you are 100% satisfy with the car.

Which dealer is that? Let us know the Name and location please.

How much deposit did you pay??

Let's give us more information to see if we can help.

And he also said that the scratches will appear anyway after I used the car

What the F.....?? You should say this to him, "You are gonna die anyway, why dun you just kill yourself now"

What sorts of Customer service is this???

Well, you are to pay 20k+ for a CAR, not $20 for a shxt.

In my opinion, if they still not willing to fix this up for you, you should just walk away. They may try to threaten you in some ways, for example, "You are gonna lose your deposit", etc. Just ignore them, coz they are just trying to threaten you. If they really let you go, they are gonna lose NOT YOU. Since they couldn't finalise the trade with you, they couldn''t do the business, no commission. Commission -- that's what the sales person's income, so never accept those ridiculous offer from them.

Hey fellows, let's try to come up with some ideas for Cooldud. It is such a beautiful thing to get a brand new car, however, having such a xxxx dealer, it's painful. It's just like being robbed.~~!!

What would you do if you were Cooldude?

Edited April 12, 2005 by Cooley

[eggbert_99]

If i were you i would ..

Next time you go there , take a camera with you. and take pictures of the scratches . If the camera shows it then you have proof for later on if it does go to fair trading.

also check the kms on the clock .. shouldnt have more than 15-20Ks on it .. depending if they took it some where to do work on it eg tinting etc.

Just dont pay them otherwise and take it to the highest ranking person @the dealer. If that dosent work then take it to Toyota Aus . And if that dosent work then to fair trding ... but whatever you do .. dont pay them until you are 100% happy

Good luck ..

Which dealer in syd was this??

[cooldude]

Thanks Cooley and Eggbert_99 for your support. You guys really boost my morale!

I am not sure whether I am allowed to say the name and location of the dealer? I am afraid that I will be accused of defamation?

Even though I felt really annoyed and being shortchanged, I don't want to create trouble with them, I am still trying to resolve the issues.

One of my friend in Sydney told me that it's possible for the dealer to polish the car until it appears nice but after several months down the road, the colour will be faded and not even because it's lost it's paint protection or something. Is that possible? That is why I really hesitate to proceed and take this car home now ...

What should I say to them so that I can get a new car for a change? I think it's difficult to say if they can polish it really nice.

How much deposit did you pay??

I paid $1000 deposit. And yes, I am not planning to pay up the rest until I was satisfied.

What the F.....?? You should say this to him, "You are gonna die anyway, why dun you just kill yourself now" 

Good one! :D They really ****** me off until I also dunno what to say.

They may try to threaten you in some ways, for example, "You are gonna lose your deposit", etc. Just ignore them, coz they are just trying to threaten you.

You are absolutely right on this one. They did that by calling me, said that by the legal contract, I should have picked up the car within 7 days of notification that the car is ready. Which I did, but the car is not in acceptable condition and after they tried to polished the car, they should give me another 7 days, right? But NO, the manager said it's from the date I am being notified first time. What?!? That was really unfair, right? But luckily, the salesman agree that I can try to pick up the car this weekend.

Next time you go there , take a camera with you.

I agree with you, but my camera skill is not that good. And I have to say that due to metallic paint, at some angles you can't really see the scratch because of the reflection of the light.

One more question, what else do I need to check before I drive away beside the kms reading?

Again, thank you guys for your input and support.

If anybody else have the same experience, please share it here and let me know how you guys handled it the last time ...

Cheers.

[MR22ZZ]

it's not defamation if you stating the truth... There have been cases of poor customer service in Sydney before I think we are just comparing to see if it is the same dealer(s) again...

Best of luck with this though

[cooldude]

it's not defamation if you stating the truth... There have been cases of poor customer service in Sydney before I think we are just comparing to see if it is the same dealer(s) again...

Best of luck with this though

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I know what you mean, the customer service is just sucks after the deal is done. Before the deal, yes, it was not bad, the salesman even offered glass of water for us, talk nicely, give suggestion, lots of smile, etc ... but after the deal you can forget those :(

That's also the reason I am sharing my story here, so that we, the customer, don't always get bullied by these salesmen. For some of us, probably the first time car owner, we probably never realized how bad they can be.

I understand that probably they are having fierce competition, but still, this is not the way they should do business or win over the customers by cheating them.

I probably did my homework and do lots of research/comparison before my purchase and I am pretty sure I got a good deal for this. But after I think again, that's probably the reason they gave me this car instead a brand new car. Damn! But again, they should just told me that they can't give me a better deal for a new car and instead they can just be honest and tell me if I am willing to accept this kind of quality for a demo car.

Of course I know that I can't generalize the whole car sales out there, but it is important for the customer to have pre-caution and warned them before they even start to con us.

Now I just hope I can get out of this situation and they genuinely give me a brand new car.

So, Blue_Stivo, which toyota car dealer that you know giving poor customer service?

[Silver Levin]

For those interested to know what constitutes 'defamation' pls read on.

Although i havent come across the topic of Defamation in my law course(last yr), but I have now have taken an interest in it.

THe following is the general principles of defamation and its application to your situation as described above.

To prove a case in defamation, a plaintiff(i.e Toyota Dealer) must prove 3 things: 1) defamatory material,

2) relating to that person; and

3) is published.

Presuming that point 2) and 3) is obvious in that your 'comments' related to the Toyota Dealer and is/will be published here on the forum. Hence, we move on to deal with point 1).

There is no single common law definition of what is meant by ``defamatory''. However, the concept of a man's reputation being impugned, rather than that he has merely been abused, is a central ingredient of most defamation actions. The material 'published' has to affect adversely the reputation of that person in the estimation of ordinary persons. TIn other words, he test of whether material has a defamatory meaning is what the ordinary reader, listener or viewer would understand or infer from it. For example, a statement that “The Minister is crazy to support more pulp mills” – would be unlikely to be found to be defamatory as ordinary people are NOT necessarily likely to form a significantly lower opinion of someone just because they are the subject of such criticism or abuse.

NOW --> say that you do 'publish' 'defamatory material' either verbally or written on this forum, there is a defence to it.

DEFENCE --> The law of defamation rests on the principle that all defamatory matter is presumed by law to be false. A defendant(i.e you) in a defamation action will have to establish the truth of a defamatory imputation, and at common law (which applies in Victoria) this is a complete defence to the action. GIven your scenario, I am of the opinion that if you simply state the facts and what happend (as long as you proof), this would be the utter truth and hence a complete defence to a defamation case.

DISCLAIMER: The above does not constitue legal advice, merely an opinion that should not be relied upon for legal action. It is for information purposes only. I may be wrong. So pls seek qualified legal advice.

[Silver Levin]

In regards to what you can do?

The 'trade practices act' may provide legal grounds for action (or threat if you will =)). I will quote 2 sections from the TPA that has wide application :

SECTION 53 - FALSE OR MISLEADING REPRESENTATIONS

53 A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, in connexion with the supply or possible supply of goods or services or in connexion with the promotion by any means of the supply or use of goods or services:

(a) falsely represent that goods are of a particular standard, quality, value, grade, composition, style or model or have had a particular history or particular previous use;

(aa) falsely represent that services are of a particular standard, quality, value or grade;

(B) falsely represent that goods are new;

SECTION 52 - MISLEADING OR DECEPTIVE CONDUCT

52(1) [Prohibited conduct]

A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, engage in conduct that is misleading or deceptive or is likely to mislead or deceive.

I would, but dpnt have enuff facts or time to apply the law to your case, but i would think its application is quite obvious.

Edited April 13, 2005 by Silver Levin

[BigBum]

Edited April 13, 2005 by BigBum

[cooldude]

For those interested to know what constitutes 'defamation' pls read on.

Although i havent come across the topic of Defamation in my law course(last yr), but I have now have taken an interest in it.

THe following is the general principles of defamation and its application to your situation as described above.

To prove a case in defamation, a plaintiff(i.e Toyota Dealer) must prove 3 things: 1) defamatory material,

2) relating to that person; and

3) is published.

Presuming that point 2) and 3) is obvious in that your 'comments' related to the Toyota Dealer and is/will be published here on the forum. Hence, we move on to deal with point 1).

There is no single common law definition of what is meant by ``defamatory''. However,  the concept of a man's reputation being impugned, rather than that he has merely been abused, is a central ingredient of most defamation actions. The material 'published' has to affect adversely the reputation of that person in the estimation of ordinary persons. TIn other words, he test of whether material has a defamatory meaning is what the ordinary reader, listener or viewer would understand or infer from it. For example, a statement that “The Minister is crazy to support more pulp mills” – would be unlikely to be found to be defamatory as ordinary people are NOT necessarily likely to form a significantly lower opinion of someone just because they are the subject of such criticism or abuse.

NOW --> say that you do 'publish' 'defamatory material' either verbally or written on this forum, there is a defence to it.

DEFENCE --> The law of defamation rests on the principle that all defamatory matter is presumed by law to be false. A defendant(i.e you) in a defamation action will have to establish the truth of a defamatory imputation, and at common law (which applies in Victoria) this is a complete defence to the action. GIven your scenario, I am of the opinion that if you simply state the facts and what happend (as long as you proof), this would be the utter truth and hence a complete defence to a defamation case.

DISCLAIMER:  The above does not constitue legal advice, merely an opinion that should not be relied upon for legal action. It is for information purposes only. I may be wrong. So pls seek qualified legal advice.

←

Thanks for the info, Silver Levin. I think I was holding my breath while reading this, but luckily it was a relief at the end. Hopefully I understand completely. It is quite heavy stuff you have there.

I think I will keep the name of the dealer privately unless it's necessary to reveal for the investigation purposes.

Thanks again Silver Levin.

[cooldude]

In regards to what you can do?

The 'trade practices act' may provide legal grounds for action (or threat if you will =)). I will quote 2 sections from the TPA that has wide application :

SECTION 53 - FALSE OR MISLEADING REPRESENTATIONS

53 A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, in connexion with the supply or possible supply of goods or services or in connexion with the promotion by any means of the supply or use of goods or services:

(a) falsely represent that goods are of a particular standard, quality, value, grade, composition, style or model or have had a particular history or particular previous use;

(aa) falsely represent that services are of a particular standard, quality, value or grade;

(B) falsely represent that goods are new;

SECTION 52 - MISLEADING OR DECEPTIVE CONDUCT

52(1) [Prohibited conduct]

A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, engage in conduct that is misleading or deceptive or is likely to mislead or deceive.

I would, but dpnt have enuff facts or time to apply the law to your case, but i would think its application is quite obvious.

←

Silver Levin,

Thank you again for your insightful comments. Now that I know on which ground I can do action on them, who do you think I should approach to justifiy and investigate whether this car is really new or not? I meant isn't a demo car still considered new because they are unregistered yet?

Do I need a car detailer? Can he/she support me in legal action as a qualified witness? (you know like a psychologist trying to determine whether the accused is crazy or not?)

I wonder if the customer is protected with this kind of practice act, would any dealer actually has the guts to cheat customer? Did they do it simply because they know that the customer are simply ignorant of this law?

Do you know many cases whereby the car dealer is being punished by the application of this law? I wonder whether the punishment/penalty is severe enough for them not to do it again???

Cheers.

[Silver Levin]

Hey Cooldude,

I am afraid that i dont have the answers to your questions as i havent got the knowledge nor experience. However, i did a quick search for info for you and find a link that may be a good starting pt for ur research.

http://kiwi.carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal...topDefault.aspx

HOWEVER, after much searching. i find a much more useful link - you will be happy and it will provide more understanding on the recourse u can take. E.g

Motoring Advisory Line on (03) 9790 2190

http://journeys.racv.com.au/RACVM/whichcar/step3.cfm

A guide on buying new car can also be downloaded from:

http://www.journeys.racv.com.au/racvrt/ima...ying_newcar.pdf

p.S unless buying 2nd hand cars from dealers where u get cooling period of 3 business days, buying new cars DO NOT HAVE COOLING OFF PERIOD.

I hope that helps - i would like to be ur advocate but no time, gotta study and gotta make some money =)

But pls keep us updated on ur progress on this forum.

Thanks

[cooldude]

Hey Cooldude,

I am afraid that i dont have the answers to your questions as i havent got the knowledge nor experience. However, i did a quick search for info for you and find a link that may be a good starting pt for ur research.

http://kiwi.carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal...topDefault.aspx

HOWEVER, after much searching. i find a much more useful link - you will be happy and it will provide more understanding on the recourse u can take. E.g

Motoring Advisory Line on (03) 9790 2190

http://journeys.racv.com.au/RACVM/whichcar/step3.cfm

A guide on buying new car can also be downloaded from:

http://www.journeys.racv.com.au/racvrt/ima...ying_newcar.pdf

p.S unless buying 2nd hand cars from dealers where u get cooling period of 3 business days, buying new cars DO NOT HAVE COOLING OFF PERIOD.

I hope that helps - i would like to be ur advocate but no time, gotta study and gotta make some money =)

But pls keep us updated on ur progress on this forum.

Thanks

←

Thanks again Silver Levin. I really appreciate your help here.

These will certainly be helpful. :) :)

Please continue to study hard to help getting rid of this kind of problem B)

Cheers.

[Silver Levin]

btw - could it be a showroom car? coz i dun think they need to be registered.

[cooldude]

btw - could it be a showroom car? coz i dun think they need to be registered.

←

Looking at the condition of the car (having scratches in every single door), my answer would be yes, it is very likely ... :(

[cooldude]

Just want to update this post. :)

Finally I got the car and I found that the scratches has been polished quite nicely and I don't have any complaint about it.

It's perfect now and I am a happy owner of a new Corolla.... :D

Phew! Thanks for all who has give me advise and strong support on this one. :)

[Cooley]

Just want to update this post.  :)

Finally I got the car and I found that the scratches has been polished quite nicely and I don't have any complaint about it.

It's perfect now and I am a happy owner of a new Corolla....  :D

Phew! Thanks for all who has give me advise and strong support on this one.  :)

←

That's great to hear that :D

Tell us more about how and what you talked with the dealer......

let us learn from you story :)

[cooldude]

That's great to hear that  :D

Tell us more about how and what you talked with the dealer......

let us learn from you story  :)

←

Cooley,

To tell you the truth, the second time when I tried to pick up the car again, all the scratches has been polished quite nicely, so there was not much thing that I need to say to them, fortunately ...

But I think the most important lesson learnt is, to check your car first before you paid them fully, especially I noticed that they kept trying to push you to the accounts section to "settle" the finance. Be persistent and insist that you have to see the car with your own eyes before settling the finance. Know your rights as a buyer and be sure that you have the support from Fair Trade shall the dealer trying to be unfair with you. Be cool at all times even when they try to put pressure or threaten you. Bring friends that familiar with buying a car so that you can get second opinion from them abt the quality of the car.

That's all I guess ...

Cheers ...