From light swirls to now deep looking scratches

[Silver-Aurion]

Today I finally gave the car a proper detail. Started off by washing it and drying thoroughly (nearly 2 hour process).

Then I proceeded with the SwirlX with the wax attack buffer, then used the wax that came with the kit. The light swirls that existed have gone, but now the paint job looks hideous because now in the correct light you can see deep scratches. These aren't scratches that snag on your finger tip but they are like criss crossing across the whole paint work, these scratches.

What the hell did I do wrong. So disappointed. The shine and depth is there, but the scratches are making me sad :(

Heelpp! :(

Edit: I know this is a funny and lame illustration but this is what the paint looks like when looked in the correct light:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8508/44176648.png

double edit: my dad got me a variable speed buffer today as well second hand for 50 bux. It looks exactly like this: http://www.great-wax.com/catalog/Makita_buffer.gif

its not the same brand but its exactly the same. Its a velcro one and a lambs wool pad is currently on it.

Edited May 16, 2010 by unique

[private number]

Dont worry unique, i feel your pain. I attempted this over summer and well, i ended up with the same finishing product as you. So i tried focusing on certain sections and eventually gave up. I rather pay someone to do this now properly so my ride is swirl/scratch free.

[mikeypoopi3]

Isn't Swirl X used for more heavy scratches? You'd probably need a less stronger cut polisher afterwards right? Would your buffer pad be dirty have little pieces of (stones or whatever) incase you might have dropped the pad on the ground?

Would you have pushed the buffer on the paint too hard?

Sorry, might not be a straight forward answer... just trying to help you out incase some of those questions might make your remember what you have done...

All i know is that some people have used swirl x and have came out with poor results because the way it has been applied since the cutting strength is quite strong....

Good luck with trying to get it fixed up....

[DJKOR]

It's quite possible that your technique may just not have been 100% during the process. It's sometimes a little tricky to get the right combination of speed and pressure used with the right compound to get the results you are looking for. Maybe if you have some mates that have done this before, have them help you out to fix what you've got and to teach you some tricks. Otherwise, maybe it would be a good choice to pay a professional to get it up to scratch and then practice on something else (like an older car or something) till you get your technique down pat.

One reason why I really really prefer doing stuff like this by hand rather than using a machine buffer. It's not that I don't trust myself with it, but in the extra time and effort you spend trying to do it by hand, you have just that little more precision over what you are doing. Plus you feel so good once you finally get it finished . Took me a total of like 4 days of Swirl treatments etc to get my old Sportivo looking new again when I first got it. Like they say, hard work pays off.

[-DAvo]

It's quite possible that your technique may just not have been 100% during the process. It's sometimes a little tricky to get the right combination of speed and pressure used with the right compound to get the results you are looking for.

hi unique

sorry i didnt see your thread earlier. hope your doing ok with the scratch in your car :P i know id be freaking out big time!

anyway wha DJOKR said is prety much what i am thinking. from my experience in owning a wax attack buffer, it lacks the speed and power of a DA polisher.(which is why i onnly use mine to apply wax) what may have happened here is that there was not enough pressure and pad rotation to let the swirlX do is job correctly and break down ino a polishing compound... instead it may have just marred your surface. (usually on a meguiars DA polisher you would use speed seting 5 for swirlX)

what i would recommend doing is finding an area where the marrs are bad, and apply swirlx by hand and see if that removes them. if it does then you know it was the technique.

another option is tha you were using oo big a workspace... normally i divide my bonnet up into 4 areas. this is roughly the workspace you want to apply your swirlx to in a single pass. spread it over too big an area and again it wont have the time to work properly.

if used correctky, swirlX should leave your paint ready for a coat of your favourite wax..

let me know how you go and hopefully it works out! :)

[Silver-Aurion]

Thanks the replies.

I was thinking, what if I were to do this instead:

Wash, ultimate compound, wax ?

OR

Wash, swirlx, polish(unsure which megs polish to use, some help), wax.

I drove around today and everywhere I parked I could not stop looking at the car. I'm never had so much shine and depth in it before. The buffer definitely made a difference.

In day light you cannot see one little imperfection. It looks like liquid diamond has been pured over it. But come night, and when you park under a street light etc and you see the reflection of the street light bouncing off the car you can spot all the tiny scratches that I know WILL be able to be removed if done properly.

I just need you guys to help me on my technique and products.

-DAvo, did you see the buffer that my dad got. What if I were to buy a foam pad for that and use the swirlx with that machine?

Edited May 17, 2010 by unique

[Mole]

From what I've read of the Wax Attack buffer, its only good for Wax and Buffing and isn't designed for anything else. I would never use a rotary polisher full stop.

Time to get out the elbow grease and hand applicators!

Or if someone is nice, borrow their DA and get some tips.

[-DAvo]

unique - for the love of god, if your having trouble with your wax attack, do NOT use that rotary! :P those, if used properly WILL produce the best shine and depth, but if used incorrectly, you WILL risk burning through your clearcoat and possibly through your paint. But for 50 bucks thats definately a good buy, just keep it for when you get your technique down pat ;) if your really keen to start using the rotary, definately work at its slowest speed and dont let it linger in the same spot for too long, and also beware of edges, as they can cause hot spots which will burn your clearcoat... see the article i have attached at the end of my post for some idea on what a rotary is all about.

as for your suggestions, i would recommend stick with the swirlX, but do a couple of passes... i regularly do 2-3 psses of swirlx before i am satisified... if you are going to tackle this by hand, as DJOKR said, you need to be patient, perhaps spread your detailing over the weekend or a few nights, (eg do the bonnet, boot, front bar and rear bar one night, then the sides and roof the next night) that way you wont be too sore :P

always, always use the least aggressie method to take your swirls out.

Rotary buffers

Rotary buffers are drastically different in the way they work compared to Dual-action polishers and Orbital buffers.

The drive unit used in a rotary buffer is referred to as a direct drive. What this means is the auger, (the threaded part to which the backing plate attaches), is driven directly off the electric motor. This results in a powerful rotating motion. This rotating motion is typically clockwise as you look at the rotary buffer from behind, as though you were using it on a panel.

Because the rotary buffer is a direct drive machine, it can do a lot of work very quickly. By work, we mean, the rotary buffer will remove paint.

Meguiar's understands the average person doesn't want to remove precious paint from their car's finish. However, sometimes removing paint is necessary in order to create a high gloss, defect-free finish. Example: If you have a scratch in your car's finish, say someone keyed your car, or a cat jumped up on the hood and left behind claw scratches.

In order to remove these scratches, you will need to remove enough paint surrounding the scratches in order to make the surface level. As you can see in this example, removing the scratches will require removing quite a bit of paint material, and in the case of the deep key scratch (where the arrow is pointing), you will not be able to completely remove it without exposing the base, or color coat of paint. This is a situation where you are better off improving the scratch, not completely removing the scratch.

Second Example: Many cars, after being painted, are wet-sanded in order to remove orange peel or to bring the surface to a show car quality finish. After the finish has been sanded, the way you remove the sanding marks is to buff the finish with a cutting compound and a rotary buffer. The cutting compound abrades the paint, removing, or leveling the finish until it’s completely flat.

After the surface is buffed flat, it will then be polished with a cleaner/polish like Meguiar’s M-83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish with the rotary buffer to restore a swirl-free, high gloss finish. Rotary buffers are necessary to do both of these procedures because both of these procedures require that some portion of the paint is removed.

Dual-action polishers and Orbital buffers do not have an aggressive enough action to remove small particles of paint in an effort to remove most defects, including sanding marks. This is the same reason Dual-action polishers and Orbital buffers are safe… they don’t have an aggressive action, thus they are safe. However, because they are safe (do not have an aggressive action), they are not aggressive enough to remove all but the finest of scratches.

Do not purchase a dual action polisher or orbital buffer hoping to use these to remove major or even minor cratches, as they are just not aggressive enough. They can often be used to remove fine or shallow scratches and swirls, but they will not remove any scratch that is deep enough to place your fingernail into.

Remember, using a rotary buffer successfully requires both skill and experience. If you use a rotary buffer and are not skilled in its use, you can easily apply too much pressure to the paint and burn right through it, requiring a new paint job. This same result can happen if you use a buffing pad attached to an electric drill.

[Silver-Aurion]

unique - for the love of god, if your having trouble with your wax attack, do NOT use that rotary! :P those, if used properly WILL produce the best shine and depth, but if used incorrectly, you WILL risk burning through your clearcoat and possibly through your paint. But for 50 bucks thats definately a good buy, just keep it for when you get your technique down pat ;) if your really keen to start using the rotary, definately work at its slowest speed and dont let it linger in the same spot for too long, and also beware of edges, as they can cause hot spots which will burn your clearcoat... see the article i have attached at the end of my post for some idea on what a rotary is all about.

as for your suggestions, i would recommend stick with the swirlX, but do a couple of passes... i regularly do 2-3 psses of swirlx before i am satisified... if you are going to tackle this by hand, as DJOKR said, you need to be patient, perhaps spread your detailing over the weekend or a few nights, (eg do the bonnet, boot, front bar and rear bar one night, then the sides and roof the next night) that way you wont be too sore :P

always, always use the least aggressie method to take your swirls out.

2 -3 passes? Hmm, I just done one pass. The first pass took me two hours. I then had to go straight to wax because that was another two hours and it was getting dark or else I think I wanted to do another pass of swirlx.

How can I expand my detailing throughout each day? Doesn't the car just pick up dirt and dust, how am I suppose to detail it then or am I expected to wash it every single day

I need to buy a clay though, the car surface as those little brown/red spots again. I have no clue where they come from as I park no where near a tree and always avoid parking near trees(sap is the worst).

So davo, should I (after claying) go over with swirlx couple of times next time? I heard that after swirlx to go through with a polish THEN wax?

[Silver-Aurion]

It's quite possible that your technique may just not have been 100% during the process. It's sometimes a little tricky to get the right combination of speed and pressure used with the right compound to get the results you are looking for. Maybe if you have some mates that have done this before, have them help you out to fix what you've got and to teach you some tricks. Otherwise, maybe it would be a good choice to pay a professional to get it up to scratch and then practice on something else (like an older car or something) till you get your technique down pat.

I looked at http://www.drivenbyshine.com.au/, I cannot stop looking at the car's on that site. So so hot. But he wants MINIMUM $700 for "pain correction".

One reason why I really really prefer doing stuff like this by hand rather than using a machine buffer. It's not that I don't trust myself with it, but in the extra time and effort you spend trying to do it by hand, you have just that little more precision over what you are doing. Plus you feel so good once you finally get it finished . Took me a total of like 4 days of Swirl treatments etc to get my old Sportivo looking new again when I first got it. Like they say, hard work pays off.

Before I got this buffer I done it by hand with the megs applicator pads. At first I was enthusiastic to do it but after I started getting tired and went a bit sloppy.

The buffer seriously made a world of a difference. Something that would take me ages to do by buffing by hand the buffer done in a matter of minutes.

[-DAvo]

So davo, should I (after claying) go over with swirlx couple of times next time? I heard that after swirlx to go through with a polish THEN wax?

not really, with swirlX, if you read the back of the bottle it utilizes diminishing abrasive technology... the technology acctuallt starts out as a very gentle abrasive to level out the swirls, then reduces into a polishing compound to leave the surface ready for your wax... i only even follow it with M07 polish if im feeling in the mood, as i dont think it reaps a huge amount of noticable difference... ill probbaly only use the M07 polish two or three times a year...

better off using swirlx until you get your surface nice and clear, then seal it with your wax. no need to potentialy introduce more swirls with the polish step when swirlx already takes care of it.

hope that helps.

btw off topic here, but i just picked up some meguiars ultimate wash and wax today... am trying out a new weekly regime...

monday - wash with gold class, layer on a wax of my choice (either nxt or gold class plus)

thursday - Wash with meguiars ultimate wash and wax

winter time sucks for car washing :(

[Silver-Aurion]

So davo, should I (after claying) go over with swirlx couple of times next time? I heard that after swirlx to go through with a polish THEN wax?

not really, with swirlX, if you read the back of the bottle it utilizes diminishing abrasive technology... the technology acctuallt starts out as a very gentle abrasive to level out the swirls, then reduces into a polishing compound to leave the surface ready for your wax... i only even follow it with M07 polish if im feeling in the mood, as i dont think it reaps a huge amount of noticable difference... ill probbaly only use the M07 polish two or three times a year...

better off using swirlx until you get your surface nice and clear, then seal it with your wax. no need to potentialy introduce more swirls with the polish step when swirlx already takes care of it.

hope that helps.

btw off topic here, but i just picked up some meguiars ultimate wash and wax today... am trying out a new weekly regime...

monday - wash with gold class, layer on a wax of my choice (either nxt or gold class plus)

thursday - Wash with meguiars ultimate wash and wax

winter time sucks for car washing :(

Oh okay. Cool. Just time I'll just go through with swirlx more then once.

When you use the new megs wash report back! I've heard good stuff about that and as soon as my amorall wash and wax runs out I'm buying that.

Are you talking about this? http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Meguiar%E2%80%99s-Nxt-Generation-Car-Wash-1-89-Litre.aspx?pid=104050#details

[DJKOR]

Before I got this buffer I done it by hand with the megs applicator pads. At first I was enthusiastic to do it but after I started getting tired and went a bit sloppy.

The buffer seriously made a world of a difference. Something that would take me ages to do by buffing by hand the buffer done in a matter of minutes.

I don't like to be a minute man . Each to their own mate.

[u54mot]

monday - wash with gold class, layer on a wax of my choice (either nxt or gold class plus)

thursday - Wash with meguiars ultimate wash and wax

When you use the new megs wash report back! I've heard good stuff about that and as soon as my amorall wash and wax runs out I'm buying that.

Are you talking about this? http://www.superchea...=104050#details

The car wash you have listed is Meguiar's NXT Car Wash

Meguiar's Ultimate Wash and Wax on Super Cheap Auto Website.

Meguiar's Gold Class Car Wash on Super Cheap Auto.

And the all the car washes on Meguiar's

Edit; Dave: Gold Class™ Carnauba Plus Premium Liquid Wax has been spotted at BigW for $29.98 as of last weekend.

Edited May 17, 2010 by u54mot

[-DAvo]

[Edit; Dave: Gold Class™ Carnauba Plus Premium Liquid Wax has been spotted at BigW for $29.98 as of last weekend.

awsome! no more waiting for rello's to come back from OS!! will be sure to stock up on the liquid stuff... not a fan of paste wax! :(

[mikeypoopi3]

I've always sort of been afraid of using a wash and wax type shampoo...

But i've started using the Meg Soft wash gel (pink) as I got it in a Meguiars pack but after that ran out I bought the big 1.8L NXT Carwash (Purplish Blue)and have been quite happy with it and it smells beautiful too!

Since it is just a carwash, it doesn't leave the "waxy" residue when you have finished washing the car. Can't really explain it but you just know it does a good job. And the big bottle definately lasts a long time, and I don't hold back with it too with about 4 or more capfuls per bucket.

Haven't used the gold class one before though...

Also, I have also used the carwash to lubricate the surface for claying as well and it does a good job at that too!

Not sure how others feel about using the carwash as lube (for the car) since it comes as a kit with the spray but just having a bucket of the carwash with the mitt feels much easier, quicker to clay the car.

In summary, the NXT carwash doesn't suck =)

[-DAvo]

I've always sort of been afraid of using a wash and wax type shampoo...

But i've started using the Meg Soft wash gel (pink) as I got it in a Meguiars pack but after that ran out I bought the big 1.8L NXT Carwash (Purplish Blue)and have been quite happy with it and it smells beautiful too!

Since it is just a carwash, it doesn't leave the "waxy" residue when you have finished washing the car. Can't really explain it but you just know it does a good job. And the big bottle definately lasts a long time, and I don't hold back with it too with about 4 or more capfuls per bucket.

Haven't used the gold class one before though...

Also, I have also used the carwash to lubricate the surface for claying as well and it does a good job at that too!

Not sure how others feel about using the carwash as lube (for the car) since it comes as a kit with the spray but just having a bucket of the carwash with the mitt feels much easier, quicker to clay the car.

In summary, the NXT carwash doesn't suck =)

yep ive used the wash soap as lube for my claybar.. but only when i know i wont use the bar again as the soap tends to break it down after a while...

id say all the meguiars washes are pretty good, im not a fan of the nxt wash thou, as i found it stripped my wax (nxt 2.0) of its hydrophobic properties too quickly.. great for wheels thou! overall i agree, it certainly doesnt suck, but its more of a personal preference thing! - im still loyal to the goldclass but would like to see what the ultimate wash and wax can offer up. (if you think nxt smells good, try gold class!) :)

Edited May 18, 2010 by -DAvo

[Silver-Aurion]

monday - wash with gold class, layer on a wax of my choice (either nxt or gold class plus)

thursday - Wash with meguiars ultimate wash and wax

When you use the new megs wash report back! I've heard good stuff about that and as soon as my amorall wash and wax runs out I'm buying that.

Are you talking about this? http://www.superchea...=104050#details

The car wash you have listed is Meguiar's NXT Car Wash

Meguiar's Ultimate Wash and Wax on Super Cheap Auto Website.

Meguiar's Gold Class Car Wash on Super Cheap Auto.

And the all the car washes on Meguiar's

Edit; Dave: Gold Class™ Carnauba Plus Premium Liquid Wax has been spotted at BigW for $29.98 as of last weekend.

Oh! It's the yellow bottle. I completely missed that one. Choices choices choices, there is wash and wax, nxt and gold. Which one

I'm a bit disappointed that I need to use claybar on my next wash because it's going to strip the car naked and I need to reapply everything again.

Next wash is going to be, wash, claybar, swirlx X 2 and then mothers wax. Is this does not remove the swirls I'm going to push the car over a cliff because I don't want to break my back doing all that only to find out it has done nothing... again

[Silver-Aurion]

Yeah or nay?

[DJKOR]

That just looks like an accident waiting to happen if you really don't know what you are doing. That is if I'm correct in saying that's just a rotary polisher.

Personally, I would only use something that looks like that if it were a DA (Dual Action) polisher.

[-DAvo]

mega mega nay. those pads are wayy too soft to be used on a rotary... and i can just imagine that backing plate scratching your paint something horrible when it touches while spinning at speed.

dont jump ahead of yourself mate, if your really keen to get onto the rotary, go to the wreckers and buy a old bonnet and go nuts on it. plus you would want to invest in some good compounds like M105 any M205, and pads specific for the rotary too...

[-DAvo]

double post.

Edited May 18, 2010 by -DAvo

[Silver-Aurion]

Damn, I thought I could have gotten away with it! I don't need to invest in a bonnet. My dad has an old van that he drives around that I can practice till hearts content

What if I were to put some of the megs buffers on it like the W8006?

Edit: Yeah djkor, it is a rotary.

Edited May 18, 2010 by unique

[-DAvo]

Damn, I thought I could have gotten away with it! I don't need to invest in a bonnet. My dad has an old van that he drives around that I can practice till hearts content

What if I were to put some of the megs buffers on it like the W8006?

Edit: Yeah djkor, it is a rotary.

as i said in my past posts. if your keen, try it out on your dads van before touching a paintjob which you care about...

and yes the 8006 pad will work

[DJKOR]

+1 on the practise, practice, practice. Just don't try to get ahead of yourself. Remember what led you to this scenario in the first place.