2ZR-FE lightweight crank pulleys

[dutchie101]

Heya,

Just following on from the 2ZR-FE thread, ive just contacted NST and asked if they can offer a group buy deal on their 10% underdrive lightweight pulleys for the 2ZR-FE's. They have it listed as a Yaris engine but im pretty sure its the same as ours. Im probably going to get one myself but thought i would extend the offer if they come to the party.

I assume 10% under drive should be safe enough? Can anyone chime in on this?

info:

NonStopTuning Pulley Kits

Our most popular pulleys for the Toyota Yaris, the NST Lite series is a designation used for pulleys that are light-weight versions of their OEM counterparts. All NST pulleys are built using High quality 6061-T6 aircraft aluminum and are easily 60% to 70% lighter than steel or cast iron OEM pulleys.

The NST Lite series is designed for owners looking to reduce weight and increase the throttle response of their engines. These OEM-diameter pulleys will neither underdrive nor overdrive the associated accessories, yet lead to great throttle response and improved horsepower numbers in many applications.

Our newest pulley for the Toyota Yaris, the NST Underdrive Crank Pulley increases horsepower via great weight reduction (75%) and the underdriving of accessories by roughly 10%.

Each NST Yaris Kit is carefully crafted from 6061-T6 aircraft aluminum, tested and balanced to high tolerances. Every NST pulley is hard anodized for exceptional durability and is a great item for use at the track or on the street.

Available in your choice of colors: Red or Graphite Gray.

BENEFITS

Great weight reduction

- Average of 70% over OEM

Increased horsepower

- Average of 6 - 8 horsepower

Lower ET's & higher trap speeds

- Average of .20s & average of 2MPH

NST08010

10% Underdrive

Crank Pulley

2009 Toyota

Yaris TS 1.8

$128.00

Underdrive

Think of it this way, underdrive means to slow down. Underdrive crank pulleys found at NonStopTuning are designed to slow down engine accessories and reduce parasitic loss.

Crank pulleys, attached to the outside of the crankshaft, are the source of power for a car's accessories. The alternator, power steering, water pump, and air conditioner are all belt driven units, attached to the crank pulley, that use horsepower from an engine to provide their own services. This draw of power by these accessories is called parasitic loss. NST underdrive crank pulleys increase an engine's horsepower by reducing the power required to drive these external accessories. By replacing factory pulleys with carefully resized units, the accessories are slowed enough so that their performance does not suffer, but just enough so that more horsepower is sent to the wheels and put to the ground. Where horsepower should be!

The R&D team at NST is dedicated to developing underdrive crank pulleys that provide great gains for track days and continue to deliver proper accessory output for everyday street use.

NST equipped cars do better on the track, benefit from increased accessory life on the street, and also deliver better mile-per-gallon fuel efficiency.

[CHA54]

replacing the dampened harmonic balancer with an undampened solid pulley is a really bad idea. If you want an underdriven crank pulley then get someone like Ross Performance Parts to make a proper item... http://rossperformanceparts.com/

[dutchie101]

Thanks man, i knew you would see this :)So too problematic you think? Supposedly they have run these for a few years with no problems. Will check out your recommendation thanks.

[ben yip]

Thanks man, i knew you would see this :)So too problematic you think? Supposedly they have run these for a few years with no problems. Will check out your recommendation thanks.

i like it, but who would install it for me!!

[ben yip]

get it installed today by a mechanic in less than 1 hour..

I have installed the weaponr header 2 days ago, the feeling can be felt after battery reconnection

Now, with the pulley, the result is mind-blowing,3-5kw can be felt straight away in all rpm

My driving style is driving at <3k RPM in most times, and only hit the red twice a day, because after work, I want to relax to go home..

It is very obvious there is performance gain and I can feel it straight away in any rpm, even below 3k rpm.

For header change, I cannot feel anything below 3krpm, with pulley, I can feel the torque, espesically when I do my slow start in traffic jam, I do not have to hit the pedal hard.. it is very obvious effect, i gurantee everyone can feel it

For horsepower gain, please refer to

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18780

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21742 (Look at the curve, it is gaining all over the rpm range, that boost low rpm power)

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10837

Another great thing is shifting gear is more smooth, I have one strange driving style when I am not pushing, I change gear slowly, even sometimes the guy behind me found me annoying.. Now the rpm holds more, so even I change gear slowly, the rpm can stay for a while, the car is less jerky.

(because I dun know how to drive before, that's why I am jerky,I got female friends complaining about me being driving jerky, because I change gear slowly)

The throttle response is very good, because the engine get less weight to rotate

Above 3k RPM, OMG, mind blowing power when combining with header

My fuel consumption so far is reduced from 6.9L/100km to 6.6L/100km during these two days in suburban driving.

The only worry about the car so far is the relaibility of the header, header gasket and pulley, but since I dun push that hard, should not be a problem for me

I have saw a cracked pulley in youtube before, but having said that, most people in Yaris 1.8 TS found the pulley is good...

Edited November 22, 2010 by ben yip

[johnnieboi]

Hrmmm... interesting...

[Guest]

wonder if the group buy would extend to the 1NZ pully...

[dutchie101]

Mick, Im not sue if im going to go for the pulley yet, The GB was only marginally cheaper, and then you would have to add domestic post on top, so it pretty much equals out. Its only a few bucks cheaper so you might just want to order one from NST or one of the re-sellers if your keen.

[ruimond]

wonder if the group buy would extend to the 1NZ pully...

I have the 10% Underdrive Pulley in Grey in my for sale thread mick. Let me know if your interested.

But back on topic,i've used it in my car for at least 30,000-35,000km and never had a problem with it but obviously the 1NZ-FE/2NZ-FE version. Lots of Yarisworld people use it, so im sure the 2ZR-FE would be just as good.

But there was a debate about the harmonic dampener etc on main thread on the other forum i think. But most people thought it was fine. I think.

[and1]

Pulleys without harmonic balancers become a big issue at higher rpm. Many 2zzges have suffered obliterated oil pumps due to the pulleys in the US. Though since the 2zr doesn't rev to 8k, might not be such an issue..

[ben yip]

Pulleys without harmonic balancers become a big issue at higher rpm. Many 2zzges have suffered obliterated oil pumps due to the pulleys in the US. Though since the 2zr doesn't rev to 8k, might not be such an issue..

It is an endless debate regarding this topic, some said it does not hurt the balance, some said it does..

so really a gamble to me really.

I have posted already that lots of yaris 1.8 people using it without problems, so this is a safe gamble

The original factory pulley does not have bearing or moving parts, it is just a heavy iron. I doubt this big piece of iron will create balance..

Or I can do a chemical analysis of the factory pulley, might be there are some secrets in that iron !!!

Edited November 25, 2010 by ben yip

[Ascendant Rice]

might be there are some secrets in that iron !!!

it is forged using the knowledge of the master samurai swordmaker

[CHA54]

Take a look at the factory pulley for the thin rubber section bonding the inner and outer sections of the dampener. This is what saves your bearings/oil pump etc which the cheap aftermarket pullies do not.

[ben yip]

Take a look at the factory pulley for the thin rubber section bonding the inner and outer sections of the dampener. This is what saves your bearings/oil pump etc which the cheap aftermarket pullies do not.

Yes, they have a rubber

Hey, here is the info from NSY Pulley regarding this question, whether you believe or not up to u

Please consider taking a few minutes to read through the 40 pages of customer reviews from people who have been using NST pulleys on the R18 and K20 over the past several years.... You will find no cases of engine failure as a result of NST pulleys...

the COMPREHENSIVE thread on NST (NonStopTuning) Pulleys - 8th Generation Honda Civic Forum

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/sponsored-sale-classifieds/110398-comprehensive-thread-nst-nonstoptuning-pulleys.html (Please register, 40 pages, worth to read)

You will also find lengthy discussion, such as what I will copy and paste for you here....

This one deserves an entire book, but here goes...

Q. Will NST Pulleys lead to premature engine failure?

I cover this topic at least several times a month but I don't mind, I understand that your cars are a very large investment for all of you and I prefer that you be intelligent and informed about all your modifications. So here we go again... Please take a few minutes to read everything I have posted here, as I worked hard on trying to give you a good explanation on the topic...

In the past many engines were externally balanced. There was an external balancer attached to the outside of the engine, on the crank snout, used to balance the engine externally. The crank pulley in such engines would then be attached to this balancer. Removal of this balancer is a bad idea. These balancers were most often used on large (6 to V shaped engines of the domestic muscle car era.

Take a look at any modern (1980s and beyond) Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or other japanese inline 4 and you will find no such balancer. These engines are all internally balanced, and this process has improved even further since the late 1990s. So the topic of a BALANCER does not apply here.

What you will find on many modern engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?

Many many NST customers, including people on your own forums, have reported smoother running engines with NST pulleys. Especially at idle. How is this possible if the rubber is such a vital and super important piece??? Perhaps the rubber is not as important as it is cracked up to be???

Furthermore....

On the topic of the rubber damper, engine vibrations, or possible threats resulting from elimination of this rubber piece...

On a relatively understressed near stock motor with bolt ons or low amounts of boost like what most of the people on this forum probably run, a solid pulley will not have any life threatening consiquences. The factory pulley with a 2mm (less than a 1/8th inch) damper is primarily there for wide band NVH (noise vibration harshness) supression from the engine and driveline. Removing the damper and replacing it with a solid pulley may lead to minor addtional NVH but will not harm the engine. In fact, most people claim their engines seem to run smoother with NST pulleys.

The engineering reasons are that most modern engines have a short, strong crank with, a relatively high natural frequency. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.

Now weak engines that are pushing the limit with LOTS of revs, wimpy cranks, super long strokes, lots of boost and dwelling in the upper rpm ranges for long periods of time can benefit from a damper designed to deal with this sort of operation but our engine is not like this, and probably very few people with this motor on this forum push the envelope that hard. How many 2.0 Liter, 500HP, 12,000RPM motors do we have on these forums?

As far as I can tell, our engine has a strong and stiff bottom end that is well built for our intended use. It has an internaly balanced crankshaft which is less like to break due to torsional vibration.

There are a lot of Honda, Toyota, and Nissan guys who use underdrive crank pulleys in road racing series like NASA or SCCA. Road racing is much more punishing on an engine than other motorsports. The engine is subjected to run times lasting roughly 30 minutes with the engine always in the upper ranges of its rpm limit. One race weekend is the equivlent of hundreds of 1/4 mile passes. These guys would not use NST pulleys if they were not reliable.

NST sponsors the first ever wheel to wheel Scion tC NASA Road Race car. The same car is also very competitive in the Grand Am series and has factory backing from Toyota, Scion, and TRD. This car has been using pulleys from NST with great results since day one.

NST has sponsored several drift cars participating in the professional US drift series, Fromula Drift. Several of our cars have also competed in the NOPI Drift series. To make things better, NST products are also used in autocross, time attack, and drag cars. These cars have been using NST pulleys with no issues of any kind for the past few seasons.

We could go on and on...

Is a solid crank pulley harmless to all engines? No it is not. As I said... small, super high reving engines, when modified way past the simple bolt on stages may have problems. These engines reach critcal harmonics, past the 10,000 rpm range, an rpm only reached by certain RACE engines.

A mildly modded inline six will most likely be fine but one subjected to high rpm for long periods of time (90% of its life) with lots of boost will probably suffer. In this case , the stock balancer/damper is probably not adequate either.

Some of the older american V8 engines are externaly balanced and it is critical not to use a solid hub pulley not designed for these applications, or damage to the engine could result. You will not find solid NST pulleys on our website for such engines.

Our engines and most around here do not fall into the above catagories. Rest assured that your engines will not blow up and die or have a reduced life in street and even racing use with these parts.

I would bet that every "expert" that tells you otherwise has little personal, practical, real world experience with the subject; as it applies in your case.

Again, I understand that your cars are a very large investment and that you depend on them as your daily means of transportation, so I do not take your questions personally. But please remember... No NST product is designed to cause you any harm or grief. We are not in business to sell junk. PERIOD.

Edited November 26, 2010 by ben yip

[SuperDave]

Do you really think a company would tell both sides of the story on a product it sells?

There are countless examples of engine failure caused by undampened crank pulleys, just like there are countless stories of no failures. It is a risk people have to take. I know I wouldn't risk 1kW against 5k of engine.

[johnnieboi]

Do you really think a company would tell both sides of the story on a product it sells?

There are countless examples of engine failure caused by undampened crank pulleys, just like there are countless stories of no failures. It is a risk people have to take. I know I wouldn't risk 1kW against 5k of engine.

So what you think SD? You think its a worthy investment? Worth the risk? A few of us were thinking of C-One aluminium crank pulleys. Esp for the ZREs, we're in need of vast improvement in the torque department but no risk is worth damaging the engine. Just need some advice and more research, particularly since not many crank pulleys have been installed in zres yet too.

[CHA54]

I wouldn't risk it on an engine I couldn't afford to replace at the drop of a hat.

If a replacement engine is cheap and you can do all the labour yourself then go for it.

I'm not sure what a 2ZR long engine costs, but Northy had a bill close enough to 10K for his 2zz replacement from toyota.

Edit: If your engine does happen to let go, keep in mind that toyota monitor these forums for items relating to major warranty claims... So your claim will be knocked back when they present you with a copy of a thread with all your warranty-voiding mods in it.

Edited November 27, 2010 by CHA54

[dutchie101]

Edit: If your engine does happen to let go, keep in mind that toyota monitor these forums for items relating to major warranty claims... So your claim will be knocked back when they present you with a copy of a thread with all your warranty-voiding mods in it.

Seriously? 99% of people that work for Toyota have half if not less knowledge about their own cars compared to most of us on here.. Maybe major claims, but when do they have the time to monitor? And which department?

Im not going to go ahead with the pulley exchange, im leaving my ZRE how it is now, and im almost finished chasing any more power.

Ps, donks with minimal or 0 km on them can be imported from the US or Japan for around AU1600 + freight/duties/GST. Def no where near 10K if imported.

[CHA54]

Ask Northy what happened when he tried to claim his engine.

10K was a long engine from toyota + parts and labour to fit it, actually thinking back it was around the 12K mark.

[johnnieboi]

GG for this mod then..

[dutchie101]

Im not denying it happened. Im not sure how many mods he had done to it at the time before failure either. He had to fork out 12K for a donk & fittting? If he did, why didnt he go for a low km import? Anyways, thats getting off topic... B) More of a rhetorical question i spose...

[CHA54]

At the time 2zz's weren't a common motor 2nd hand, the car was sent to toyota for a warranty claim. You will find some remnants of the experience if you do some searching.

There's even threads on here warning users about posting their mod lists etc, a quick search reveals those also. The guy that denied Northies claim was from TMCA and his job is investigating/authorising major warranty claims.

[juvenile]

Do you really think a company would tell both sides of the story on a product it sells?

There are countless examples of engine failure caused by undampened crank pulleys, just like there are countless stories of no failures. It is a risk people have to take. I know I wouldn't risk 1kW against 5k of engine.

So what you think SD? You think its a worthy investment? Worth the risk? A few of us were thinking of C-One aluminium crank pulleys. Esp for the ZREs, we're in need of vast improvement in the torque department but no risk is worth damaging the engine. Just need some advice and more research, particularly since not many crank pulleys have been installed in zres yet too.

Any info on the C-One pulley?

[dutchie101]

Vinh is running a C-One pulley... Havent herd any feedback from him yet.... VINH?

[johnnieboi]

Vinh told me it has improved his throttle response, particularly in 3rd to 4th gear range. Seems like there is less strain/lag in response and powerband. Who knows, might just take a risk and get it too.