Engine Flush

[Jhiony TKG2010]

Does using an engine flush prior to change oil delivers a benefit? Reduce or eliminate oil sludge?

Any input is appreciated. ^_^

[RICE RACING]

Sludge will only ever happen IF you use factory oil like in stealerships.

Look up 1 million mile Mobil 1 on youtube and see why I use this oil or equivalents (ENEOS Nippon oil in Japan is even better). Only use these two and you will be right.

Also do not ever run longer than 10,000km between changes.

p.s. up to 100,000km if regularily serviced will not need a flush, even on crap oil like from a stealership.......... but over 150,000km use it for sure if dubious on maintenance and crap fed through the engine.

[viper33]

^ Another useless post from you

Go ahead and use dot 5 brake fluid, synthetic gear box oil, R compound tyres and top jap brands like dixcel for brakes too then

I'll gurantee you your car will run better than it would with oem parts, but does this mean that oem parts are inferior? Not to mention the costs

The engines come with a recommended oil viscosity, put in the recommended oil, service it according to the logbook or a little more frequently if you want and you'll be fine

Oil flushes are generally considered useless, you can never get 100% of the old engine oil out unless you strip the motor down, so what happens if you leave that oil flush crap inside the motor?

Much better off changing oil, going for a long drive and changing it again after if you're really worried about it

EDIT: LOL at sludge happening if you use recommended oil, sludge builds up if the oil hasn't been changed in a long time not because you used 15w40 as recommended instead of 5w40

Edited August 3, 2012 by viper33

[RICE RACING]

viper33 you are a certified idiot, stick to the IT world and stop tryint to be something you are not ;)

[RICE RACING]

sludge & in particular VARNISH (far greater problem! as it causes rings to stick) forms as a part of using low quality stealership oil!!!! *PROVEN FACT* it can happen after only 5000km let alone 15000km as per viper33's claims based off what??? an opinion based of what??? his immense education and skills LOL............ ***** tool.

I know I do this for a living, not sure WTF you do except aspouse some crap on the internet cause you were or are a lube monkey for a stealership??????????

LOL @ oil viscosity and recommendations. So you now are an engineer are you????????? guess what I am ( as well as being a qualified Mechanic for 20 + years, and a teacher, and many other things, and I still work in the "trade") :)

I give out advice being a man, not a tool on the internet like you telling people to go to a stealership and doll out bad advise cause you yourself are inept at your own trade and intelect.

Again I say 100% if you want to get ripped by a stealership and a fail school kid and people who hate life working in them on your car, then by all means be like the other generation useless types and go ahead. BUT if you want to use premium parts and do a quality job, DO IT YOURSELF. No one will ever take more care than you yourself, and you are not paying for the dealer principles Yatch or holiday house in the process, you are putting your money into buying hte best for your car and doing the best job.

Its not that hard. Just takes some balls@! and a brain.

Edited August 3, 2012 by RICE RACING

[Hiro]

Rant

Dude, get down off your high horse. You've obviously got some kind of grudge against dealerships (I'm guessing one has rubbed you up the wrong way in the past), the average corner mechanic is just as likely to use poor quality oil if not more, as they are less likely to have a multi-million dollar contract with a big-name oil company (I believe Toyota uses Castrol for instance, not Joe Bloggs Motor Oil). Dealerships aren't this big bad enemy like you make them out to believe, thousands of people get their car serviced by dealerships every single day without any problems (yes there are bad ones and good ones, but that is true of every market, and also true of home mechanics as well). Hell, my Corolla was dealer-serviced for the first ~250,000km of it's life and it is still perfectly fine, 363,000km and the engine has never been opened ONCE. If anything, I've probably caused more damage to the health of my car by sometimes being a bit lazy with the servicing (air filter really needs a change for instance, and the oil is a bit overdue).

[RICE RACING]

Rant

worthless opinion

There is no need to go to a stealership, end of story, unless you are useless of course.

IF you have some go in you, and you want the best for your car, learn to do it yourself, end of story.

[Hiro]

Out of curiousity, what makes my opinion worthless? The fact that I disagree with you?

[RICE RACING]

Out of curiousity, what makes my opinion worthless? The fact that I disagree with you?

oh I dunno, maybe the fact you are a troll who has not owned a Kluger let alone worked on one yourself?????????

I'd class that as worthless in this thread ;)

[RICE RACING]

If we look at the OP's original request for help, maybe you or others token keyboard farts could address his original question and also expand on it with your own knoweldge???????? now that is a novel idea hey :)

Sludge & Varnish

Why do they exist?

I have man'd up through my own knoweldge (high hourse according to you?)

What have you done to address the OP's original question or done to help him out?

Think about it then and why I class your input as worthless ;)

[Hiro]

Out of curiousity, what makes my opinion worthless? The fact that I disagree with you?

oh I dunno, maybe the fact you are a troll who has not owned a Kluger let alone worked on one yourself?????????

I'd class that as worthless in this thread ;)

Last time I checked, your rant was about dealership servicing, not a Kluger. No, I haven't worked on a Kluger, but I consider myself to be interested in all Toyotas (and a supporter of home maintenance if the owner is capable), thus why I opened the thread.

If we look at the OP's original request for help, maybe you or others token keyboard farts could address his original question and also expand on it with your own knoweldge???????? now that is a novel idea hey :)

Sludge & Varnish

Why do they exist?

I have man'd up through my own knoweldge (high hourse according to you?)

What have you done to address the OP's original question or done to help him out?

Think about it then and why I class your input as worthless ;)

Ok, fine, I have never used an engine oil flush before doing an oil change on any of my cars, and haven't had a problem with sludge.

As for sludge, it is most commonly caused by the oil being contaminated with water and dirt etc, which is why the manufacturer recommends more frequent oil changes if the car is driven regularly in dusty environments. Infrequent oil changes on their own aren't the cause, however they allow the problem to manifest.

Happy now?

[RICE RACING]

Out of curiousity, what makes my opinion worthless? The fact that I disagree with you?

oh I dunno, maybe the fact you are a troll who has not owned a Kluger let alone worked on one yourself?????????

I'd class that as worthless in this thread ;)

Last time I checked, your rant was about dealership servicing, not a Kluger. No, I haven't worked on a Kluger, but I consider myself to be interested in all Toyotas (and a supporter of home maintenance if the owner is capable), thus why I opened the thread.

Good so you intention is honest then, think about my first reply and read why these "flushes" can be of use and why they are needed, its mostly to refresh an engine that has been choked up by the use of inferior OILS and by definition from you and viper33 its in the vast majority cause people are useless and rely on goign to stealerships who are known to cut corners and use bulk oil contracts to cut down on costs at the expense of you a "valued customer" lol............

Use higher grades of premium oils and you will not have sludge or varishes (bigger problem) occuring over the life of your engine, as my rants according to you pointed out to the OP, in the interest of passing on real knowledge and not a sheeple mass opinion........... take it as you will.

[RICE RACING]

Remember a Stealership WILL NOT use the highest grade of oil in your car, only what meets minimum requirements @ a cost benefit to the dealer principle, who is paying minimum wages to his staff, has lowest cost parts and consumables, YET charges out a wastly inflated cost to you the "valued customer"

This is how he affords his Yatch and Holiday home, and why people like viper33 work for award wages as mechanics, and after a few years get jack of it and go stack shelves at Wollies for more pay ;)

Moral, learn basic mechanics and service your own cars :)

[RICE RACING]

Watch these videos for anyone interested, oils aint oils.

Then search the Mobil 1 version I recommended in my first post to the OP's request for "advice" do your research on this, IF you have pulled down many motors like me, even ones that have been serviced totally by stealerships using (OE based oils) *dubious* as most skimp and cut costs using bulk oil contracts with various local vendors like Castrol etc then even more so you have no idea what is going into your car!

Take control!

Do your own basic work!

You and your engine will be better for it!

And you will feel better knowing you are not useless like the majority of the population believing the CON of factory servicing and all of the grief that goes along with it.

Edited August 4, 2012 by RICE RACING

[Hiro]

Good so you intention is honest then, think about my first reply and read why these "flushes" can be of use and why they are needed, its mostly to refresh an engine that has been choked up by the use of inferior OILS and by definition from you and viper33 its in the vast majority cause people are useless and rely on goign to stealerships who are known to cut corners and use bulk oil contracts to cut down on costs at the expense of you a "valued customer" lol............

Use higher grades of premium oils and you will not have sludge or varishes (bigger problem) occuring over the life of your engine, as my rants according to you pointed out to the OP, in the interest of passing on real knowledge and not a sheeple mass opinion........... take it as you will.

Using higher-quality oil isn't a guaranteed fix for oil sludge (nor a guaranteed preventative). Neither is using a flush product. Regular servicing is and always has been the best solution, regardless of whether it is done by the owner, a mechanic or a dealership, with quality (now before you go off your rocker, quality doesn't automatically mean top shelf)

As for the "bulk oil contracts", just because they buy it in bulk doesn't mean it is the cheap crap. They may use a name-product like Magnatec or GTX, or the oil company may actually produce a specific blend just for Toyota. This is perfectly fine for the vast majority of people who use dealership services, who use their car as a tool to get from A to B every day with a minimum of fuss.

If run-of-the-mill Castrol etc is so bad, what about the multitude of home mechanics who buy GTX/Magnatec/Helix and do the oil change themselves? They're doing their own work, so must be awesome, but they're using the same oil as the dealership, OH MY GOD THE CAR IS GOING TO EXPLODE.....

Remember a Stealership WILL NOT use the highest grade of oil in your car, only what meets minimum requirements @ a cost benefit to the dealer principle, who is paying minimum wages to his staff, has lowest cost parts and consumables, YET charges out a wastly inflated cost to you the "valued customer"

You mean they don't put Royal Purple in my dad's widebody Camry? Oh the humanity! No, of course they don't, and anyone who thinks that any mechanic (dealership or not) is going to put freshly-refined 100% premium single-malt decomposed dinosaur into your car is an idiot. The dealership isn't going to tender an oil contract based off the minority who treat their car as if it is made from solid gold and spoon feed it 100-octane.

And the reason why you see those inflated costs for servicing and parts is that is how most dealerships actually make their money - the profit margins on selling the car in the first place is relatively low. The vast majority of the commerical world follows those practices - it is called the Gillette model, because you buy the re-usable razor blade handle at or below cost, but pay a premium for the disposable blades. Petrol stations do it too, which is why a bottle of milk is $2 at Coles and $4-5 at the servo, because they are only making a couple of cents profit per litre on the fuel.

[RICE RACING]

The engines come with a recommended oil viscosity, put in the recommended oil, service it according to the logbook or a little more frequently if you want and you'll be fine

OMG you are a total muppet, and an ignorant one at that :)

SO lets summarize, do you even know why Toyota have reduced oil viscosity recommendations over the last 10 years, followed up by an addendum in the factory manual telling you it is acceptable to use 1 lt per 1000km and this is and i quote "Normal" where as 5 years earlier there was no such addendum added?????????

Its only to meet emission standards and reduce Co on that faggy lable on the front of a new cars window! IT COMES AT THE EXPENSE OF ENGINE LIFE! Pistons skirts and bores are scuffed out at 150,000km as a result of running factory (last 5 years recommend oil viscosities) so FAIL for following your advise or that of your stealership OR putting in crap oil as supplied to them.

Toyota have reduced their acceptable engine life down to 150,000km on the new oil viscosities, it all comes at the expense of increased engine wear, so FAIL if you go to a stealership or some hobo mechanic at your conrner store listening to oil advise in the hand book.

It's not just a Toyota problem, look at Subaru and their 0w20 recommended oil LOL, Toyota are follwing that path too. If you pull apart any of these motors and measure the piston to bore clearances or bearing clearances you will notice nothiing has changed since the 70's Corolla 18RG motor! so ask yourself in your own self professed wisdom what has the oil viscosity dropped, its only to suit greenies at the expense of you the end user and a disposable society that throws away clunkers.

Don't believe everything you read in a hand book or factory propoganda or stealership brainwashing hand me down advise, do your own research talk to people who actually build enegines and have decades of experience and preferably formal mechanical engineering qualifications and you will find the truth from the hype.

Premium oil only you will get if you source it yourself! NO Stealership will put in $100 per 5 lt oil in your pride and joy.

[RICE RACING]

And the reason why you see those inflated costs for servicing and parts is that is how most dealerships actually make their money

THE END.

Moral, put that wasted money into a premium product and do it yourself, you WIN, not the STEALERSHIP or HOBO JIFFY LUBE MECHANIC DOWN THE ROAD :)

[Hiro]

nothiing has changed since the 70's Corolla 18RG motor!

Something obviously has changed, becuase the Corolla never had the 18RG, or any R-series engine for that matter

[RICE RACING]

nothiing has changed since the 70's Corolla 18RG motor!

Something obviously has changed, becuase the Corolla never had the 18RG, or any R-series engine for that matter

I had a Celica with an 18RG, from new........

Were you even born then???????????

[Hiro]

nothiing has changed since the 70's Corolla 18RG motor!

Something obviously has changed, becuase the Corolla never had the 18RG, or any R-series engine for that matter

I had a Celica with an 18RG, from new........

Were you even born then???????????

Congratulations, you must feel so proud. Now, tell me again which Corolla had the 18RG? And while you're at it, which Australian-delivered Celica had it too (or was yours overseas)?

[viper33]

LOL from all my time in the trade i've never come across a mechanic who knows his **** and recommends oil flushes

And if you're an engineer too apparently then you should know that the oil flush things could cause more harm than good

But nah im apparently an IT guy and your the engineer so you would know

To the OP, if i was you i wouldn't listen to rice racing, hes got a few good points but everything else just seems to be a grudge against dealerships

I would never run the oil flush stuff through any of my cars or bikes and there is a very good reason for it

[RICE RACING]

So you have never ever used injector cleaner either too? LOL at you ;)

Factory oil = varnish build up, proven fact, engine flush will work well and its recommended on a stealership pleb dino oil serviced car

Pleb mechanic advise is just that ;)

[11/16Aurion 12Kluger]

SO lets summarize, do you even know why Toyota have reduced oil viscosity recommendations over the last 10 years, followed up by an addendum in the factory manual telling you it is acceptable to use 1 lt per 1000km and this is and i quote "Normal" where as 5 years earlier there was no such addendum added?????????

When I mentioned to my dealership (i hate them too) that my new Kluger used 2L during a 1800k trip they were very alarmed.

They reported it to Toyota and were instructed to put it on a oil consumption monitoring program immediately.

It has not used any oil since and from reading around this can happen with some new engines when running in.

It's not just a Toyota problem, look at Subaru and their 0w20 recommended oil LOL, Toyota are follwing that path too.

0/20.. may as well use water.

It is very common for dealerships to just throw in 20/50 as that is the grade that they seem to be able to get the cheapest.

As for oil flushing an engine?? Honda USA has stated if this procedure is used on a Honda engine during warranty the warranty is void!

The US site Toyota Nation has some good discussions on engine oil and well worth reading.

BTW... dirt & dust is not the major factor in the lost of viscosity in engine oil. Acids and chemilcals that form during the regular operation of the motor are the enemy of engine oil.

[RICE RACING]

Each to their own,

If you read my thread on the Kluger and now my FJ Crusier I have my own procedures for run in, and oils, and servicing (no stealerships involved or hobo lube service mechanics down the road) and my cars "both" used no oil, have exceptional performance (proven! not with an I phone app lol) and amazing fuel economy, again proven, not doctored info.

This is why I will trust my own advice over anyone else's, I have proven it, and gone out of my way to show it to people here as well........

Believe what you want, its a free world, all hail the internet forum and free worthless opinons LOL

[Jhiony TKG2010]

Hello Gents,

Your input is appreciated and apologies if my question has caused some intense dialogue amongst some. However, I sincerely do hope after this we all remain civil and peace amongst us prevails :D

My opinion is all input does have merits but the oustanding advise for me is using premium oil in all cases as this will minimise/prevent the sludge build up as shown in Youtube provided by Rice Racing. Cheers once again my friends!