Brake upgrade

[Suprathai]

In my quest for more power I almost forgot that stopping is equally important, but seriously don't we all bolt on an intake first or maybe a fart cannon (no offense guys). Right now I'm trying to create a post on how you can go about reducing your stopping distance or increase your braking power. I will also continually add more and more info onto this post as more and more people contribute to this topic.

Why??

We all want more power (everyone has there own reason), but reducing your braking distance is equally as important. Whether its avoiding the person that has just jump onto your path on the street or trying to catch up to that Porsche GT2 around the twisties it would all be nice if we could reduce our braking distance. But then again some of us just want to fill all that empty gap in our 18 inch rims.

Problem

Overheating/wrong temperature range or maybe both

If anyone has ever taken there stock vehicle around the track or after a set twisties in the country, you will start to find that the brakes after a while seems to almost not to respond. No amount of cursing in this world will fix your problem while continually pumping that brake pedal. To put it simply your brakes are operating out of their temperature range and are not working properly.

So how do we 'upgrade'?

List of things that I would look at in order of priority to reduce braking distance. But the first thing I would do is go and do a $14 pedders 28 point suspension check just to make sure your cars suspension has not given up on you. Your braking can be improved with a better suspension setup, but we will leave that for another day.

1. Tyres - The rubber that is in contact with the road. Crap tyres will give you crap braking, end of story.

2. Brake fluid - Really look into changing that at the required interval. The fluid itself is hydroscopic (absorbs water) which means it can corrode/rust your pistons once there is a fair amount in there. Additionally the boiling point of water is much much lower then that of brake fluid you don't want boiling water in your system. Make sure you use a compatible DOT rating for your brake system, your seals, rubber, hoses etc might not like the higher rating DOT fluids. Fluids are cheap.

3. Brake pads - Gives you better 'bite' and one of the more cheaper upgrades for your brakes. Can also be selected to work at the appropriate heat range as well.

4. Brake disc - Slotted and/or Cross-drilled will allow your rotor to cool more properly and allow gases that are trapped while braking to escape and maintain braking efficiency over sustained heavy braking.

5. Stainless steel braided brake hoses - Most factory fitted cars come with rubber hoses and as the temperature of your fluid increases then the rubber hoses can expand and give you that dreaded 'spongy' feeling that you get.

1,2,3 and 4 will generally give you better braking maintained over a longer period of time.

Check this out, it contains a list of part #'s for brake and suspension components to replace or upgrade your current gear.

Been there done that now what?!

So you have done everything possible and still want it to stop faster. We now look at upgrading the calipers and disc. Upgrading to bigger disc will generally have an larger effect then bigger calipers in my opinion as you increase the radial distance from the centre of your wheel. If you want to know why then go back to high school physics or google around. Since usually you cannot usually fit bigger disc with out changing your calipers (could fabricate new caliper brackets) , its best to upgrade both when your stock disc are on their way to heaven (which is happening in my case).

Solutions for a big brake kit (BBK)

Honestly why did the corolla come with a 4 stud bolt pattern instead of 5 like the celica. Would of made everything so much easier...weird.

Project mu They have kits specified for the zzw30 mr-s which might work on the zze122/3 corollas.

Willwood The kit in this link is for the scion tC. Upon further investigation (using the DBA catalogue), the Scion tC, Celica GTS, Celica SX/ZR all use the same disc (part # 562). So with that in mind this kit 'should' fit with no issues, other then the fact that the hat on the kit needs to be supplied with 4 stud holes at 100 PCD.

TRD USA Once again its a TRD BBK for the celica and matrix. Honestly why couldn't the hubs on the Oz delivered corolla have the same stud pattern.

Brash Boy Calipers for the celica in this case which should fit the corollas no problems at all.

Interchangeability with other toyota models

From my current research...

Ae101 superstrut twin piston calipers apparently bolt on to the current corolla while maintaining the stock disc. Pad area is almost double (using mr2 SW20 pads) increasing contact area thus improved braking, its effectiveness is yet to be observed.

Celica's (ST185/202/205)

They all have the same caliper bolt spacing as the sportivo, which is 130mm.

The ST185's came with large single piston front calipers with 288mm disc while the cream of the crop ST calipers came equipped with 4 piston calipers and 315mm vented disc. The Oz delivered GT4 ST185 used 288mm disc while the JDM delivered ST185 used 255mm disc, but with twin piston single calipers. The pad area of both calipers are approximately 50% more then what the current ZZE122/3 calipers are holding.

ST185

The twin piston calipers uses the smaller 255mm disc, therefore they do not fit the sportivo without hitting the standard disc.That said, it will fit the zze122 no problems if your looking for an suitable caliper upgrade. The single large piston from the ADM ST185 should fit no problems as they use a much larger disc(288mm), no confirmed fitment yet (will no very soon). Below are visual comparisons of the stock zze122 calipers & pads Vs ST185 calipers & pads.

ST202

Apparently they bolt in with minimum fuss, but at this stage I'm not 100% sure. Disc will need to re-drilled to the correct PCD in order to fit the hub. The ST202 celica is the JDM celica that came out with the redtop 3sge pushing out 134kw (IIRC), never sold in Oz so you'll need to look at import wreckers. The following attachment are zip files of ST202/ST205 calipers with dimensions of them courtesy of da_horse over at Toymods.

ST202.zip

ST205.zip

FTO

Twin piston calipers off the 2L mivec FTO ALMOST fitted. It would of been beautiful if it did though, would of worked nicely. Caliper bolt spacing is 128mm (I was so upset after bringing it home and realising that 2mm is such a huge problem). You could elongate the holes to get them to fit......But I would not recommend it at all.

Dimensions on stock calipers

Caliper bolt spacing is 130mm. More to come as I take them off completely and provide more detailed dimensions.

Any information supplied in this post or thread is purely based on my limited research on the internet. I'am not liable for any injury, loss, accidents etc if by using this information it cause you to experience undesirable consequences.

Edited May 4, 2008 by Suprathai

[CHA54]

the nissan 4 pots are a much larger pain in the **** to fit with regards to the adapter bracket than the AE1xx superstrut/GT4 or ST205 calipers. With regard to the 5-stud v's 4-stud disc, it's easy to get the PCD redrilled to suit, one of the bolt holes is shared between the PCD when redrilling a 5x100 to 4x100, Kevin at St Mary's Specialised Brake and Clutch is my recommendation for brake upgrades in Sydney. The center bore is the most important part of the disc when searching for a replacement. The FWD/AWD toyota's seem to share a 55 or 54mm center hole. You do not want to install a 55mm hole disc on your 54mm hub, you will have vibration issues etc as the disc relies on a tight fit for the center to the hub.

Another option is a Radial mount brembo style caliper. These are much easier to fabriate the caliper bracket for and can accomodate for different disc diameter and hat heights a with a lot less fuss. The DBA catalogue isn't bad for searching for a disc that suits your dimensions either.

Also keep the wheel clearance in mind, some of the "fake dish" wheels with FWD offset have SFA room to upgrade the brakes without selecting a disc/caliper combo with a much deeper hat height. This is mainly a concern when upgrading to a 4-pot

[Suprathai]

Been staring at the DBA catalogue until it started to talk to me. But isn't the zze122/3 center bore diameter 55mm?? or is the standard of Toyota manufacturing that low?? I think only the celica and corolla share the 54/55mm center bore diameter (either get it machined to the right size or get spacers). The last thing you would want to do is get a new set of rims cause your new disc and calipers don't clear your current rims.

I've been looking for the superstrut calipers for a while right now and its proving hard to find, I'll be looking into the z32's and GT4 once my car comes back...until then its more searching and reading

UPDATE: z32/r32 don't bolt in as the caliper bolt spacing is 100mm

Edited August 16, 2007 by Suprathai

[CHA54]

http://www.twincam.info/index.php?showtopi...mp;#entry361335

Superstrut discs run a 54mm center bore, same as the ST185 discs, same as the AE92 and AE82. The AE101 non superstrut runs a 55mm center bore

[Suprathai]

So with the superstrut calipers did you have to end up using the Superstrut disc?? Or did use the disc that came standard with the corollas?

[CHA54]

depends on the car and the spacing of the caliper mounts on the hub. Also ensure you measure your stock caliper bolt spacing and check the calipers you're buying to ensure they're a match, unless you're making adapter brackets.

There is some variation between the GT4, SW20 and AE1xx twin piston mount points.

I usually use new ST185 discs machined to the appropriate dimensions to suit the car.

Edited July 19, 2007 by rollamods

[Suprathai]

Once my car is back I'll be pulling out the sportivo calipers and doing some measurements.

[CORZZA]

Im in the process of looking for bigger discs too! I want to fill the big holes behind the 18's!

Now dba has been recommended to me! iv used them on my barina in SA and they worked 110% with the stock barina callipers.

Now my Question. The sportivo callipers seem good enough for the sort of power our cars make even with say for e.g a S/C i think they will be good enough on larger 300mm+ dba dics.

Do you guys agree?

[Suprathai]

You could fab some caliper brackets to mount the calipers further out from the centre of the hub and use bigger disc....

To find out if the current disc are up to the task with the addition of an SC. Check out the part numbers for the T-Sport compressor over in the UK.

[CHA54]

Im in the process of looking for bigger discs too! I want to fill the big holes behind the 18's!

Now dba has been recommended to me! iv used them on my barina in SA and they worked 110% with the stock barina callipers.

Now my Question. The sportivo callipers seem good enough for the sort of power our cars make even with say for e.g a S/C i think they will be good enough on larger 300mm+ dba dics.

Do you guys agree?

You might have caliper clearance issues with your style of rims when the caliper's mounted further out, you can make the prototype caliper bracket from MDF to check clearances before lashing out and spending money on discs and laser cutting of the brackets etc.

[selyaT]

the sportivo callipers seem good enough for the sort of power our cars make

I think they're pretty good :)

At a driving course we had to do a braking manouvre and at the instructed speed Micky and I were consistently stopping before the obstacle (in standard S'tivos)

Can't speak from experience belting around a track though. Pretty sure being group N you're meant to use OEM hardware, so the rally hack just runs a set of peformance pads, no qualms.

[Suprathai]

Well the disc on the sportivo corollas are not exactly small or inadequate. The latest ITR has 280mm with twin piston fronts and they stop very well. More pistons does not always mean better braking. The ITR and NSX both run with twin pot calipers!! Food for thought.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Suprathai

[CORZZA]

Thanks for the info fellas! And jim high five!

Ok so for the time being il stick to the stock Stivo calipers.

So now to source some dba's that would be able to fit in them! drilled or slotted...... Mmmmm :)

[Suprathai]

Why not drilled and slotted?? :D

[CORZZA]

Why not drilled and slotted?? :D

Aaahhhh the Hot rod look! I like your thinking!

[CORZZA]

Right got some specs for the dba brake upgrade for the stivos

DBA no: 759

Diameter: 275 mm

Original height: 50 mm

Original thickness: 25 mm

minimum thickness: 23 mm

Centre hole diameter: 55 mm

You have an option of Only using the Standard series DBA's

STANDARD:

Ideal for standard everyday street use.

SLOTTED:

Ideal for towing and heavy loads, where additional heat is usually generated.

The slotting efficiently clears dust and debris, while creating better friction and a cleaner disc rotor.

GOLD:

These rotors perform well in wet conditions and safely during an emergency braking situation.

The drilling and slotting provides an efficient means of dispersing water and friction gases. Looks great behind open-allow wheels.

Not sure of the prices yet

[selyaT]

I bought some RDA slotted front rotors for the sportivo 2 days ago which cost me $165 for the pair, it's not as expensive as you think if you are prepared to shop around.

I think we need the Dyl-miester to comment

[MR22ZZ]

I bought some RDA slotted front rotors for the sportivo 2 days ago which cost me $165 for the pair, it's not as expensive as you think if you are prepared to shop around.

I think we need the Dyl-miester to comment

the parts supplier sold read the old 2005 RDA catalogue so I was given slotted rotor for the standard corolla (255mm not 275mm) the Sportivo ones are ~$280 for the pair. The error was only picked up when they were fitting the discs at service because I was too busy to measure them myself and I trusted the parts people... never again... so the offered me my money back or an exchange + $$ for the difference... I took the money back as the service, and hence a chance to get them fitted, has passed. Plus my standard rotors are still fine.

But for those interested in part numbers

1ZZ-FE corolla front rotors - RDA7779

2ZZ-FE corolla front rotors - RDA7784

[CORZZA]

At least they fixed you up dylan!!

So dba & rda are very similar you reckon?

and is it possible to go bigger than 275mm with stock callipers?

[MR22ZZ]

and is it possible to go bigger than 275mm with stock callipers?

I don't think so, not without a spacer for the caliper.

[selyaT]

I bought some RDA slotted front rotors for the sportivo 2 days ago which cost me $165 for the pair, it's not as expensive as you think if you are prepared to shop around.

I think we need the Dyl-miester to comment

the parts supplier sold read the old 2005 RDA catalogue so I was given slotted rotor for the standard corolla (255mm not 275mm) the Sportivo ones are ~$280 for the pair. The error was only picked up when they were fitting the discs at service because I was too busy to measure them myself and I trusted the parts people... never again... so the offered me my money back or an exchange + $$ for the difference... I took the money back as the service, and hence a chance to get them fitted, has passed. Plus my standard rotors are still fine.

But for those interested in part numbers

1ZZ-FE corolla front rotors - RDA7779

2ZZ-FE corolla front rotors - RDA7784

So you're saying I can get 1ZZ slotted rotors for $165??? Do they look the biz Dylan?

I guess it's not all bad news as you can still get them for 2ZZ but they're quite a bit more expensive

[MR22ZZ]

they certainly do look the Biz... I think you need some ;)

and it's $160 actually.

[CORZZA]

alright thanks dylan!

il have a chat to one of the brake shops about it

[CORZZA]

Woo hoo! i just found out something interesting today!

I can get any dba merchandise through work! And whats even better is i get it discounted......by A LOT!!!

[DuGong]

i think u can use the celica (2zz) and the mr-s caliper kits

project-mu offer kits . im pretty sure they'll just bolt straight.. with the exception of the discs hat...4 stud and 5studs...

this is wat im getting soon