The damage that low fuel can do

[NightFlight]

Hi,

Got caught far away from a petrol station the other day in sweltering weather (Aircon using more fuel) and saw the tank was low.

So turned the Aircon & all other non essentials off & headed for fuel. But the last TEN minutes the LOW FUEL warning light came on erratically and the engine started to have power drops & sputtering. Filled her up just in time.

From the day after this event the engine has had the same erratic power drops. These usually start after turning into a hill or any other power up situation & then continue at more normal power settings. The 4A-FE engine is performing pretty poorly after perfect performance since I bought her 4 months ago. This is a 19 year old vehicle, 1991 Seca.

Had low fuel once before (to the point of LOW FUEL light blinking) but got the car refuelled within less than five minutes and no problems after that.

This time is different.

So talked to a mechanic and he diagnoses fuel tank silt is clogging the fuel filter.

He is saying

1) the filter will need to be replaced

2) the fuel line cleaned out and,

3) to stop the problem recurring, the fuel tank removed and cleaned out.

What I need to know is

a) any comments on the diagnosis and proposed remedy?

b ) Can this problem harm the engine?

c) Can someone give me an idea of the engineering here:

Are this era fuel tanks still metal, with eventual corrosion in the stew or is this just dregs from our imperfectly clean fuel?

In this model the fuel filter is inside the fuel tank with the fuel pump or where? Presumably it stands before the fuel line to the engine?

The fuel is siphoned from a fixed or floating position on the fuel?

4) Any recommendations of mechanics to fix the problem in the Northern Beaches of Sydney area?

thanks in advance

Edited March 24, 2009 by NightFlight

[junebug1701]

The fuel pump could have been damaged. If it's the original pump, the low fuel condition could have added extra strain. The fuel serves to cool the pump as it's working. Without sufficient fuel it could have gotten hot.

[NightFlight]

The fuel pump could have been damaged. If it's the original pump, the low fuel condition could have added extra strain. The fuel serves to cool the pump as it's working. Without sufficient fuel it could have gotten hot.

Yeah this was a concern.

I wonder which condition fits the symptoms "works OK until loading increases & then continues to work poorly until next cycle."

Clogged fuel filter or damaged fuel pump?

I get the sense the mechanics just want to change the filter. Then if that doesn't work they'll look at something else.

I like to go into these situations knowing as much as I can myself.

[NightFlight]

This model does have a computer diagnostic port (see pic below).

How much could this tell a mechanic who has the interface to plug into it I wonder, for a '91 vehicle?

And do non specialised Toyota mechs have the hardware / sw to do it?

[CHA54]

The AE92 EFI fuel pump has a sock strainer on the intake of the fuel pump, your actual fuel filter is in the engine bay on the passenger-side of the engine bay bolted to the lower firewall.

The labour charge would be fairly large to drop the tank and check it for debris, it doesn't take long to change an AE92 fuel filter with the right tools (the nuts can be very tight).

I'd change the fuel filter first if you dont have a record from the last time it was changed. Filters about $35, labour should be about $40 from a mechanic for the time it takes.

[CHA54]

The diags port doesn't tell much on the early corolla's.

Bridge the T1 and E1 terminals, switch the ignition on and the check engine light will flash with a sequence if there's a code logged. more info here: http://www.troublecodes.net/Toyota/

Edited March 24, 2009 by CHA54

[NightFlight]

Post deleted

Edited March 24, 2009 by NightFlight

[NightFlight]

The AE92 EFI fuel pump has a sock strainer on the intake of the fuel pump, your actual fuel filter is in the engine bay on the passenger-side of the engine bay bolted to the lower firewall.

The labour charge would be fairly large to drop the tank and check it for debris, it doesn't take long to change an AE92 fuel filter with the right tools (the nuts can be very tight).

I'd change the fuel filter first if you dont have a record from the last time it was changed. Filters about $35, labour should be about $40 from a mechanic for the time it takes.

The mech I spoke to quoted $200 just to change the filter & clear the fuel line. It pays to ask around.

Edited March 24, 2009 by NightFlight

[NightFlight]

The diags port doesn't tell much on the early corolla's.

Bridge the T1 and E1 terminals, switch the ignition on and the check engine light will flash with a sequence if there's a code logged. more info here: http://www.troublecodes.net/Toyota/

OK did the diagnostic: the ENGINE WARNING light is blinking twice a second endlessly. Nothing to report there it seems.....

[NightFlight]

The AE92 EFI fuel pump has a sock strainer on the intake of the fuel pump, your actual fuel filter is in the engine bay on the passenger-side of the engine bay bolted to the lower firewall.

The labour charge would be fairly large to drop the tank and check it for debris, it doesn't take long to change an AE92 fuel filter with the right tools (the nuts can be very tight).

I'd change the fuel filter first if you dont have a record from the last time it was changed. Filters about $35, labour should be about $40 from a mechanic for the time it takes.

I THOUGHT this is the fuel filter then in the attached pic. APPARENTLY NOT. So still looking.

Let's say the problem is from debris clogging this unit.

The fuel line to the tank would need to be flushed too I suppose since the debris would have gotten through the sock filter over the fuel pump?

Edited March 25, 2009 by NightFlight

[DJKOR]

Here is the fuel filter then in the attached pic.

That attached picture is of the motor for the windscreen wipers.

[Blind Kid Seeks]

thats not the fuel filter....

you'd expect it to be ALOT lower on the firewall with Solid metal fuel lines coming out of it.

[NightFlight]

thats not the fuel filter....

you'd expect it to be ALOT lower on the firewall with Solid metal fuel lines coming out of it.

Hmm...

Thanks for that.

I'll look lower!

Edited March 25, 2009 by NightFlight

[Hiro]

thats not the fuel filter....

you'd expect it to be ALOT lower on the firewall with Solid metal fuel lines coming out of it.

Hmm...

Thanks for that.

I'll look lower!

I THINK you can see it in the very bottom left hand corner of that photo.

EDIT nah that's the heater tap, sorry

Easiest way to find it is to trace the fuel lines from the fuel rail.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Hiro Protagonist

[NightFlight]

thats not the fuel filter....

you'd expect it to be ALOT lower on the firewall with Solid metal fuel lines coming out of it.

The only reference I have for this 4A-FE engine is the handbook, that leaves this whole quadrant blank.

Please have a look at the attachments and tell me what looks like the fuel filter.

I'm looking at getting a REPCO RFF41 type replacement filter for $39-95.

The alternative is a RIKO for $99.95.

Edited March 25, 2009 by NightFlight

[DJKOR]

Please have a look at the attachments and tell me what looks like the fuel filter.

In the first and second photos, it should be the cylinder shaped object in the lower centre of the photo.

As per reply below, disregard what I said. And all this time I've been calling that a fuel filter. Learn something new everyday.

[CHA54]

...that's the charcoal cannister.

The fuel filter is in the third pic.

Also looks like your heater tap control line (blue) isn't clipped in place properly.

Edited March 25, 2009 by CHA54

[GtiRboy]

The second more expensive brand is actually RYCO.. And i would buy that instead of the cheaper REPCO filter..

I always buy ryco, except for the one time i bought a repco fuel filter and the clips on the side of the filter snapped off whilst putting it in!! go figure

[NightFlight]

The second more expensive brand is actually RYCO.. And i would buy that instead of the cheaper REPCO filter..

I always buy ryco, except for the one time i bought a repco fuel filter and the clips on the side of the filter snapped off whilst putting it in!! go figure

Well the REPCO is plastic, and the RYCO is solid metal construction I think.

I'm not interested in skimping on a component that stands between the engine and a world full of crud!

As well Bill Buckle (my closest Toyota approved mechanic, otherwise I'd be going to Chatswood) is coming up with one for $60, so I'll find out what make that is.

Edited March 25, 2009 by NightFlight

[NightFlight]

Easiest way to find it is to trace the fuel lines from the fuel rail.

LH pic is the fuel rail (behind the engine)?

Then the RH pic is of the fuel filter (from the side).

Edited March 25, 2009 by NightFlight

[NightFlight]

Also looks like your heater tap control line (blue) isn't clipped in place properly.

Another Pic of the heater tap control line here.

It is fastened by clip just to the left of the end of the blue line, does it need further fastening?

[NightFlight]

The AE92 EFI fuel pump has a sock strainer on the intake of the fuel pump, your actual fuel filter is in the engine bay on the passenger-side of the engine bay bolted to the lower firewall.

The labour charge would be fairly large to drop the tank and check it for debris, it doesn't take long to change an AE92 fuel filter with the right tools (the nuts can be very tight).

I'd change the fuel filter first if you dont have a record from the last time it was changed. Filters about $35, labour should be about $40 from a mechanic for the time it takes.

So I've gone with this option.

The repair shop did source a genuine Toyota fuel filter and charged $88 for it. The work was 1/2 an hour = $47.

All up pretty reasonable as the car is now running fine again (touch wood).

The full option of flushing the tank out has been quoted as at two hour job at just over $200. I'll get that done later when I can spare the car that long.

These threads come up in Google searches, there was one on the same problem with the AE92 / fuel filter but it got deleted or something, so I hope this will serve others who get in the same predicament.

It seems on balance to have been a pretty aged and so already fairly clogged fuel filter hitting the last straw when hit with a suddenly much higher concentration of pollutants due to low fuel.

Pic of new fuel filter below.

THANKYOU to CHA54 and all the other members who helped to clarify all this.

Oh and out interest, is the part number the upper number on the green label: 23300 - 16190

or the lower number: 186100 - 2100

?

Edited April 1, 2009 by NightFlight