Under Seat SubWoofers - Opinions ?

[SteveAndBelle]

Hi.

I'm about 10 weeks away from getting my new Levin ZR and I'm planning a few things out for it while I wait. One of these things is the audio.

The standard head unit will suffice (for now) and the stock speakers will probably do for a while too however I'd like to inject a tad more low end and although I've had traditional boxed subs in previous cars (two of them decent DIY jobbies) I'm interested in these 'under seat' subs I've seen around the traps so I don't have the hassle of dealing with a large box each time I want to put something in the boot. I don't need heaps of 'doof' power and I'm only after an enhancement of the low-end so I'm thinking they may just do the job plus as they're under the seat they may work better than expected as they will send low freqs straight into your body. I just don't know.

Here's what I had in mind: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180500648278 I'd be happy to put one under each seat but I'm still a bit hesitant to invest if they're going to sound like crap. They look like they'd do the job but I'm just unsure.

Has anyone else had experience with them ? Are they reasonable ??

Thanks,

Steve.

[dutchie101]

Ive been looking at the Focal range of underseat active subs. They do an 8 and a 10. I didnt notice MB are doing one too. Im not after earth shattering bass, just some nice low end fill. I guess they wont stack up to larger boxed hard driven beasties, but im over that these days, just need some low fill. That MBQ is dam cheap, i think the focal is around 350-400.

[SteveAndBelle]

I guess they wont stack up to larger boxed hard driven beasties, but im over that these days, just need some low fill.

Dutchie, dutchie, dutchie ... at last someone else who thinks like me :) I've had the BIG systems in the past and have spent loads on getting them sounding *sweet* but I think you get over all that after a while. So good to hear someone agree ;)

I might look into the Focals and maybe even the Alpine range (if they still make them) because the main thing I don't want is a cheap unit that wont go the distance and that's what I'm afraid of with the MB. Power output can be mediocre (say 50WRMS) and even freqs don't have to go under 35Hz really (but 25Hz would be nice) but it's got to be a set-and-forget type unit and I don't mind paying for that privelidge. I also want something that will complement the system if I decide to blow a bit of cash on decent amps & speakers in the future so maybe the MB does have limitations. Again, not sure.

Love the MBs quoted power rating tho, ha. 800W eh ? Hmmm, more like 50-100RMS with 10% THD ;)

[SteveAndBelle]

Did a bit more research and have uncovered something interesting. When I had a look at the Focal under-seat subs on their website (http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/pdfs/acc_Bus25%20flier.pdf) I instantly recognised them from other searches I've done previous to this. I did a few searches on eBay and managed to find the units I had seen before and they look VERY similar to the Focals but at about a quarter/fifth of the price. Here are the eBay versions: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120538011202 &

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330438917215

I know Focal products are frequently counterfeited (is that even a word?) so I have sent an email to Focal Australia asking them to prove that these eBay units are in fact inferior. As I explained to them I have been hit both ways ... I've purchased inexpensive electrical products before that have clearly been rip-offs of expensive high quality products BUT I have also purchased inexpensive electrical products that I've been able to open up and compare with similar branded units friends of mine have purchased for many times more than I paid and surprise surprise they have been indentical in every way.

I suppose I'll just have to wait & see what they come back with.

I have heard the QMAX 'invisabass' subs are pretty amazing for their size (6.5" driver in very small flat box) but again I don't know enough about them.

Any other suggestions/opinions on under-seat subs ?

[Ascendant Rice]

Did a bit more research and have uncovered something interesting. When I had a look at the Focal under-seat subs on their website (http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/pdfs/acc_Bus25%20flier.pdf) I instantly recognised them from other searches I've done previous to this. I did a few searches on eBay and managed to find the units I had seen before and they look VERY similar to the Focals but at about a quarter/fifth of the price. Here are the eBay versions: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120538011202 &

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330438917215

I know Focal products are frequently counterfeited (is that even a word?) so I have sent an email to Focal Australia asking them to prove that these eBay units are in fact inferior. As I explained to them I have been hit both ways ... I've purchased inexpensive electrical products before that have clearly been rip-offs of expensive high quality products BUT I have also purchased inexpensive electrical products that I've been able to open up and compare with similar branded units friends of mine have purchased for many times more than I paid and surprise surprise they have been indentical in every way.

I suppose I'll just have to wait & see what they come back with.

I have heard the QMAX 'invisabass' subs are pretty amazing for their size (6.5" driver in very small flat box) but again I don't know enough about them.

Any other suggestions/opinions on under-seat subs ?

99 is pretty cheap. if they really do what the seller says they may be worth getting!..

[SteveAndBelle]

... and here's the reply from Focal (posted with permission):

"Hi Stephen

I have one of these in my office. I bought it on eBay to see if it breached copyright, with a view to taking legal action if it did. It doesn’t, every single component is different in some way from the Focal product. It just looks like a Focal BUS20, which is not a crime. They’re not real beautiful anyway. I haven’t had time to test it yet, although it has been there for three months. If you are in Sydney area, come around and give me a hand to rip the seat out of our Mazda 3 which has a BUS20 under the passenger seat and we will do a comparative listening test together.

Since Focal brought out these BUS subwoofers, dozens of similar ones have appeared on the market. I earnestly haven’t got time to pick our competitors products to bits, I’m that busy shipping the Focal ones. If I worry about what everyone else is making I’d never get anywhere, and no-one would believe what I say because I am importing the other brand. Some things are best left alone.

I’m quite happy to take some time and do an in-car test if you can make yourself available one day. I’m not so keen to send you test versions to wherever you live, once they get used they can’t be sold as new again. If you are near a Focal dealer I can send them the copy underseat sub I bought on eBay, well it’s not really a copy because it’s different in every way, but make sure that dealer has the patience to be doing comparisons.

Regards

Bill Leighton

Eastcoast Distributors Pty Ltd

282 Fairfield St

Fairfield NSW 2165 Australia

ph 02.97246070

fax 02.97284491

www.focalaustralia.com.au"

So on that note I think I might go check out the Focals and have an audition.

[Ascendant Rice]

... and here's the reply from Focal (posted with permission):

"Hi Stephen

I have one of these in my office. I bought it on eBay to see if it breached copyright, with a view to taking legal action if it did. It doesn’t, every single component is different in some way from the Focal product. It just looks like a Focal BUS20, which is not a crime. They’re not real beautiful anyway. I haven’t had time to test it yet, although it has been there for three months. If you are in Sydney area, come around and give me a hand to rip the seat out of our Mazda 3 which has a BUS20 under the passenger seat and we will do a comparative listening test together.

Since Focal brought out these BUS subwoofers, dozens of similar ones have appeared on the market. I earnestly haven’t got time to pick our competitors products to bits, I’m that busy shipping the Focal ones. If I worry about what everyone else is making I’d never get anywhere, and no-one would believe what I say because I am importing the other brand. Some things are best left alone.

I’m quite happy to take some time and do an in-car test if you can make yourself available one day. I’m not so keen to send you test versions to wherever you live, once they get used they can’t be sold as new again. If you are near a Focal dealer I can send them the copy underseat sub I bought on eBay, well it’s not really a copy because it’s different in every way, but make sure that dealer has the patience to be doing comparisons.

Regards

Bill Leighton

Eastcoast Distributors Pty Ltd

282 Fairfield St

Fairfield NSW 2165 Australia

ph 02.97246070

fax 02.97284491

www.focalaustralia.com.au"

So on that note I think I might go check out the Focals and have an audition.

imo go check it out and give us the review :) if the ebay one is decent ill buy one :)

[Steven]

Very good of the focal guy to give you a propery reply rather than to just give the typical "if we don't sell it then it's not legit therefore it's inferior"

[69.NIX]

I guess they wont stack up to larger boxed hard driven beasties, but im over that these days, just need some low fill.

Dutchie, dutchie, dutchie ... at last someone else who thinks like me :) I've had the BIG systems in the past and have spent loads on getting them sounding *sweet* but I think you get over all that after a while. So good to hear someone agree ;)

/me doesn't approve of this ....but so long as your happy :)

Sorry to be a troll, but products like this are great for low end fill like what the dutchman is looking at. I would personal learn towards the focal as they do have a nicer sound. All this however comes down to personal taste.

[SteveAndBelle]

Well, went my local decent car audio shop (Northfield) and had a chat to the fellas. I haven't been to a place like since I did my last big install for a friend about 10 years ago. Wow, how things have changed. Anyhoo, I was told exactly what I expected to hear from an establishment like that: Don't get an underseat Sub, better to Dynamat the front doors, replace the stock splits & add a small, decent amp. Apparently this will offer about the same (if not more) amount & quality of bass as the Focal under-seat sub. Fair enough ... but I really didn't want to go to those extremes straight away and just wanted to see how well the under-seat subs could enhance the stock system.

Next stop was Wow Sight & Sound. I wasn't expecting much and when I couldn't find them on the shelves I asked the car audio guy if he had any of those "crappy under-seat subs". He replied with "well no, we've got some semi-decent ones actually" which kinda surprised me. He showed me a Fusion 8" (http://www.fusioncaraudio.com.au/australia/car-audio-1/active-enclosures-8/ress18-122-product.aspx) display unit which just so happened to be hooked up so I asked for a demo. He warned me that it wouldn't sound very good in the large area of the store but I still wanted a demo anyway. Sure it wasn't mindblowingly loud but as it's a sealed cabinet the driver was very tight and seemed to be doing a pretty good job and seemed to be reaching down pretty low too. I was impressed but agreed with the salesperson that it was difficult to get an idea of its true potential without actually installing it into a car. Not bad though with two 15A fuses, solid alloy casing, nice large solid terminals, nice super flexible rubber roll surround on the driver, reasonable looking grille (although I'd prefer it black) and was on sale for $269 from $289 but I reckon you could easily get them down under $250 especially if you buy a couple of them.

Next stop was good ol' Jaycar. Had a look at their offering, a solidly built MDF boxed 8" jobbie with built-in 55WRMS amp (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=CS2286). I have a trade card at Jaycar so I can get these a bit cheaper (down to $127 each) but even though I didn't listen to one they just didn't look like they'd be able to do the job as well as the Fusion. Even if you bought two I still don't think they'd be able to get close to what the Fusion can offer but again I didn't get to listen so I really can't tell. Fuse was 10A and the wiring was the typical piddly type used in most cheap & cheerful gear. It had a single plug for power & high level inputs which didn't help the overall impression either and even though I know I should be able to see past things like that it just didn't seem 'serious' enough. Who knows, the Fusion unit may be similar on the inside but they've just blung it up to make it *look* better. Can't tell just by looking.

So to summarise at this stage I understand everything Northfield were saying but I still don't want to go to those extremes just yet and I'd like to see how an under-seat sub will go anyway. Even if it's crap I can always get rid of it and upgrade the rest later on. The 8" Focal retails for about $500 and if they're not the ultimate solution anyway then I can't see why I should pay that much when I could go for a much cheaper option and get similar results. The 8" Fusion looks to be very similar to the MBQ I linked to in my first post (apart from the size of course). The twin 15A fuses kinda tell me the amp is probably very similar if not identical so maybe the MBQ will offer best bang for buck. Then again, maybe the Focal, Fusion and MBQ would all be far too punchy and end up resonating the bowels of the people sitting above them too much so maybe installing two Jaycar ones would be better afterall as they would probably be a bit smoother. I just don't know.

Tell you what, I'm keen to give ALL of these a go as I think it would benefit me and a few others on this forum. It'll be difficult to explain how good or bad each unit performs as all things audio are so subjective but I'll see what I can do and use the stock system as the 'control'. If I can't return them after I've evaluated them I'll take the hit and just sell them on for a loss but $20-$50 here and there is a small price to pay to get to the bottom of if these subs are crap or in fact relatively good.

Might start this next week with a single Jaycar unit or one of the $99 eBay specials and work up from there. I'll just temporarily install it into my current Corolla as it still has stock everything and should be a good enough standard base to test with. If all goes well I'll throw up a review here so keep your eyes peeled.

[Ascendant Rice]

soudns good mate! your a legend

[SteveAndBelle]

Just did my first ever product review/comparison: http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28694

Tired now, going to bed. Phew.